Whats the ENDGAME of spirituality?

[Rajneeshpuram]

14 minutes ago, WonderSeeker said:

@Rajneeshpuram No end, only game. 

But Gurus insist of the need to do the work, meditate, love, nonduality. As opposite to live with vanity, materialism, egotism. This emphasys in transceding the self cannot be a fancy. Probably those who transcend the self go to the 4th dimension where there is no physical body, ego or suffering.

Just a remind we are living in the most dense dimension, where we experiment the worst suffering possible.

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Moksha said:

Without a story, with all its risks and rewards, what is the point? Changelessness is so....changeless.

Do you think it's just a game of conscience? It seems like a very serious matter, very deliberate. Although it can be a very serious game, well, they are more fun, could be possible, but not a game , an artistic expression, maximum creation possible

Edited April 10, 2021 by Breakingthewall

[Moksha]

19 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Do you think it's just a game of conscience? It seems like a very serious matter, very deliberate. Although it can be a very serious game, well, they are more fun, could be possible, but not a game , an artistic expression, maximum creation possible

Yes, I agree that it is more than just a game. It is creation. The sincerity of the story is the beauty that it creates. In games, there is a winner, and a loser. Art is ineffable beauty. Consciousness is the ultimate artist.

[Evoke]

13 hours ago, Rajneeshpuram said:

The third approach I find is to live away from a sick society, for example hermit mode, hippie community, spiritual community. 

In my experience, those type of communities very easily become cult-like. 

Very few people are really actually awake or developed it those places. 

They just come together because they cant fit in normal society. 

[Nahm]

13 hours ago, Rajneeshpuram said:

I've read about how some enlightened gurus and christian mystics died, and they died from illnesses like most human beings.

There are stories or legends about indian and buddhist gurus who in their latest stages of his spiritual development they retire alone into the woods or in a cave meditating all day and night to the point of eating only a handful of rice till they became mummified or petrified, and their body didnt rot ( low temperatures, low fluids, no eating).

I reach to the conclusion, is physical death the ultimate stage of enlightenment? It may be a consequence of the ego death, which is the survival mechanism to make the body alive.

A cautionary word...conclusion is just one more thought. It seems otherwise, because the content implies a summarization, which is also just another word / thought. These readings are the pointing finger, next one must see the moon pointed to, the actuality, for lack of nondual words... the direct experience for, as, of, oneself. 

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Is it a suicide by disatention of bodily needs?

Physical body, like all other words / thoughts, labels perception, but does not actually equate to separation, objects, things, etc. There is another saying, ‘empty your cup’. This is also a pointing, to which the moon must be directly experienced... or, that “cup” is a word / thought, and is not a separate object in perception. No one has ever actually experienced a cup. 

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I'ts clear that everybody that meditates with determination and /or takes psychedellics may experiment glimpses of temporary enlightenment.

A temporary glimpse, is a temporary glimpse. Temporary glimpse of enlightenment is a misnomer. The term nonduality can only point. 

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But achieving permanent enlightenment implies

Achieving enlightenment is also a misnomer. This is not possible. A finite thing can not reach or achieve an infinite state, just as infinite can not know finite. 

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the body's death as a consequence, and this from nature's perspective doesnt make sense.

Body, death, nature, consequences, etc... these are thoughts believed, beliefs - that there are things - not actually separate things or events. The realization of this makes perfect sense, in that sense does not point to logic such as conclusions, or any other thoughts, but to sensation. 

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I heard once Leo saying something like if you achieve enlightenment and become the great mind your physical body would disappear and melt into the absolute, which in this material tridimensional world we live is impossible.

Dimensional jargon is a priori to m and string theory. Dimension is often regarded as exceptional, or, true, as in not-theory. It is though. It is a limit of the observing mind so to speak. Direct experience is a priori to the theory of dimensions and the observing mind as well. 

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So to find a more integrative approach of spirituality, should we just attain little moments of enlightenment while living the best we can in this world integrating what we know from our enlightened experiences? ( living in the matrix knowing that its all false, but still playing its game?)

That the matrix is false is a belief, like illusion. Only direct experience reveals the actuality. The matrix can not be conceived, because matrix is also a concept, a thought. Like all thoughts, it has meaning, so long as you continue assigning meaning. Notice if you don’t, no one else does. If it seems otherwise, scrutinize direct experience more. After decades of eternity, I suggest making a dreamboard to be the most integrative approach. This is a direct experience, thinking about making a dreamboard but not directly experiencing it, would be like mistaking the thought of sex, for the direct experience. 

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I dont know the psychological consequences of living in congnitive dissonace ( knowing its and illusion and living pretending its not).

There is really neither living nor perceptive illusion. The illusion is of thoughts, or, thought attachment, and is that of a “separate self”. So long as there are things, one is believing one is a thing (thought attachment)

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The third approach I find is to live away from a sick society, for example hermit mode, hippie community, spiritual community. This makes things easier, and you dont have to fake acting like a bluepilled human to fit in the society.

One already does not have to fake acting like anything. People resonate with authenticity, as that is a paramount desire for everybody. The universe is attraction based. The term ‘survival of the fittest’ and it’s collective misinterpretation comes to mind. 

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-Please, let me know your thoughts about your vision of how it looks like reaching the final stage of enlightenment.

The first recognition would be that you are believing the meanings and implications of thoughts, rather than recognizing they are thoughts, and that they are not feeling or perception. (Though of course feeling & perception are words / thoughts, which only point) Analogously, thoughts are like the words on the pages of a book. You can get lost & engrossed in a book. You can also notice, it’s a book, not the story one is lost in. Meditation is the way. Maybe start with eating meditation, as diet is the first order of business, which I would frame as alignment with well being. If you haven’t already, recontextualize food as a distant second to experiencing, like gasoline for a car. Try the loophole shake. It has all the stuff that resonates best with well being, tastes like a chocolate peanut butter banana shake, and costs less than any other diet (“loophole”). That it is raw food & enzymes alone is a game changer if you’ve not been eating those.  

I’d read the books The Nature of Consciousness, Ask & It Is Given, Loving What Is, The Power Of Now. 

Beyond creating a dreamboard, some time, a diet of well being and daily meditation practice, emotional suppression is going to come up and out of the body mind. Understanding emotions & not being attached to narratives of thought are the difference between dark nights, dissociation, depersonalization, etc... and sadness, followed by gut wrenching sorrow, followed by incredible releases and much dispelling of conditioning & beliefs, and an arising of a most incredible good feeling.  Godspeed on your path. ?? 

 

[Rajneeshpuram]

29 minutes ago, Nahm said:

A cautionary word...conclusion is just one more thought. It seems otherwise, because the content implies a summarization, which is also just another word / thought. These readings are the pointing finger, next one must see the moon pointed to, the actuality, for lack of nondual words... the direct experience for, as, of, oneself. 

Physical body, like all other words / thoughts, labels perception, but does not actually equate to separation, objects, things, etc. There is another saying, ‘empty your cup’. This is also a pointing, to which the moon must be directly experienced... or, that “cup” is a word / thought, and is not a separate object in perception. No one has ever actually experienced a cup. 

A temporary glimpse, is a temporary glimpse. Temporary glimpse of enlightenment is a misnomer. The term nonduality can only point. 

Achieving enlightenment is also a misnomer. This is not possible. A finite thing can not reach or achieve an infinite state, just as infinite can not know finite. 

Body, death, nature, consequences, etc... these are thoughts believed, beliefs - that there are things - not actually separate things or events. The realization of this makes perfect sense, in that sense does not point to logic such as conclusions, or any other thoughts, but to sensation. 

Dimensional jargon is a priori to m and string theory. Dimension is often regarded as exceptional, or, true, as in not-theory. It is though. It is a limit of the observing mind so to speak. Direct experience is a priori to the theory of dimensions and the observing mind as well. 

That the matrix is false is a belief, like illusion. Only direct experience reveals the actuality. The matrix can not be conceived, because matrix is also a concept, a thought. Like all thoughts, it has meaning, so long as you continue assigning meaning. Notice if you don’t, no one else does. If it seems otherwise, scrutinize direct experience more. After decades of eternity, I suggest making a dreamboard to be the most integrative approach. This is a direct experience, thinking about making a dreamboard but not directly experiencing it, would be like mistaking the thought of sex, for the direct experience. 

There is really neither living nor perceptive illusion. The illusion is of thoughts, or, thought attachment, and is that of a “separate self”. So long as there are things, one is believing one is a thing (thought attachment)

One already does not have to fake acting like anything. People resonate with authenticity, as that is a paramount desire for everybody. The universe is attraction based. The term ‘survival of the fittest’ and it’s collective misinterpretation comes to mind. 

The first recognition would be that you are believing the meanings and implications of thoughts, rather than recognizing they are thoughts, and that they are not feeling or perception. (Though of course feeling & perception are words / thoughts, which only point) Analogously, thoughts are like the words on the pages of a book. You can get lost & engrossed in a book. You can also notice, it’s a book, not the story one is lost in. Meditation is the way. Maybe start with eating meditation, as diet is the first order of business, which I would frame as alignment with well being. If you haven’t already, recontextualize food as a distant second to experiencing, like gasoline for a car. Try the loophole shake. It has all the stuff that resonates best with well being, tastes like a chocolate peanut butter banana shake, and costs less than any other diet (“loophole”). That it is raw food & enzymes alone is a game changer if you’ve not been eating those.  

I’d read the books The Nature of Consciousness, Ask & It Is Given, Loving What Is, The Power Of Now. 

Beyond creating a dreamboard, some time, a diet of well being and daily meditation practice, emotional suppression is going to come up and out of the body mind. Understanding emotions & not being attached to narratives of thought are the difference between dark nights, dissociation, depersonalization, etc... and sadness, followed by gut wrenching sorrow, followed by incredible releases and much dispelling of conditioning & beliefs, and an arising of a most incredible good feeling.  Godspeed on your path. ?? 

 

You dissected my text and reduced it to thoughts and illusions. I can do it too with yours and say what you wrote is just a bunch of pixels.

The purpose of my thread is to find a consensus about what have to be done in our limited existance in the physical plane. The "life has no purpose" we have to find our purpose doesnt convince me.

Because there is causality and purpose in nature we are here for something. Maybe we are God incarnated multiple times at the same time to experience its creation, maybe its God's experiment, but as long as God puts himself into the trap of duality and reincarnations he also have to find a way backhome, to the source or master mind, whatever you call it.

Everything is mental and obeys to a intelligent design, so please dont reduce everything to just my thoughts, its God's thoughts.

Edited April 10, 2021 by Rajneeshpuram

[Nahm]

@Rajneeshpuram

Oh, my apologies, that wasn’t the intention. 

[snowyowl]

This s probably not a good answer to this thread, more like some random thoughts but here goes. 

Purpose leading to an endgame suggests a movement from a timebound to timeless state. But why can't this endgame be here already, what's the distinction between means and end? After all, whatever name you come up with for the "Ultimate End", some smart alec will just ask you, what's the meaning and purpose of that. If you say it's Love, for example, then what's the point of Love? Verbal reasoning is endless. 

So my sense is that the End is the realisation that THIS is the end already, the end of seeking and purpose because it's complete. But there is change, on the relative level it helps to prepare for the future, pay the bills, educate the children, plant the crops, save for your pension etc etc. 

On the emotional level, having meaning and purpose feels good, having none can feel bleak and depressing. So I dunno, maybe this is something hard wired into us by evolution for survival of the species. 

Edited April 11, 2021 by snowyowl
spelling

[VirusOfTheCult]

On 10/04/2021 at 0:31 PM, fridjonk said:

There is no physical death. Think about it, if you were to "die", where would you go? You'd be in the same place you've always been at but you just end your dream that you created for yourself. Enlightenment is the recognition that you don't need to die to die. 

The ultimate goal is. More honestly, more truthfully, more lovingly. 

Once you recognize yourself as  and trace all the steps back to the beginning of the universe, you realize you  it all to keep yourself stuck in the illusion. You go so far that existence literally ceases to exist, just pure , pure , pure . Yet it's an  existence so it will keep dreaming for eternity, and there you have an  endless game of reality. So in a sense, there is no endgame other than to know .

. 

Lots of assumptions here.

If you were to die where would you go? How do you know? How do you know if you go anywhere of if you reincarnate? 

 

[WaveInTheOcean]

Lol, haha. Oh God. The endgame is right here, Now.

Believing in any endgame -- especially a spiritual one -- just keeps you from IT.