Carnivore cannot heal the gut, Leo

[Leo Gura]

Fact: tribal folk who eat lots of meat tend to have clogged arteries.

Hard to argue with that.

[Yali]

@Leo Gura good vs bad cholesterol?

[aurum]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Fact: tribal folk who eat lots of meat tend to have clogged arteries.

Hard to argue with that.

Not doubting you, just curious where you heard that. 

Also, for what it’s worth, I saw your fasting video and had a very similar experience. Went about 12ish days on water and had to call it off because it got so bad. I didn’t supplement with electrolytes, which in retrospect was likely foolish, but even still I would have likely had to call it off. And I don’t have SIBO or anything autoimmune related.

Fasting seems great if you are already overweight or have a serious health condition. But I mostly stay away from long fasts these days. OMAD / intermittent fasting works well with me, plus maybe a 48-72 hour every once in a while. 

[herghly]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

But if I had to choose between living 65 years on carnivore vs 80 years on vegan, with how much better I feel on carnivore factored in, I would rather live 65. No doubts about it.

Longevity is meaningless without energy and quality of life. I can accomplish more work in 65 of carnivore than 80 years of vegan. At least given my current health condition. Hopefully I can change that.

If you're not aware, it's worth listening to Paul Saladino

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ8lOwJHVEA

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, aurum said:

Not doubting you, just curious where you heard that. 

Various doctors have said it.

Eskimos and Masai people get clogged arteries and they eat the most meat of all tribal groups. Google it. They've done studies on it.

Quote

Also, for what it’s worth, I saw your fasting video and had a very similar experience. Went about 12ish days on water and had to call it off because it got so bad. I didn’t supplement with electrolytes, which in retrospect was likely foolish, but even still I would have likely had to call it off. And I don’t have SIBO or anything autoimmune related.

I took sodium and magnesium. It still wasn't great. Very light-headed and weak.

[lmfao]

@Leo Gura Leo, what are all those plants in the background of your blog videos now? Like do you have some indoor garden or something? 

[freejoy]

We have a highly evolved digestion system that has evolved be able to digest almost anything for a pretty long time. Other animals die if you change their diets. 

[The0Self]

7 hours ago, Guido said:

Leo, on the video you say carnivore is not for the long term but on the other hand the inuit and every hunter-gatherer tribe from the beginning of time ate mostly meat, for their entire life. Meat has been always the main food of humans. How can that be bad now when it wasn't bad our entire existence? I mean those tribes didn't have modern illnessess like we do now.

Eating meat is fine (actually good if you're athletic) but it's not ideal to eat only meat. And Inuits are literally the number 1 shortest lifespan cultural-ethnic group... lol I wouldn't try to make that case with that example.

[The0Self]

2 hours ago, Yali said:

@Leo Gura good vs bad cholesterol?

There isn't really good and bad. A grossly inadequate simplification: there's lipoprotein than transports cholesterol to the liver (HDL), and lipoprotein that transports cholesterol from the liver (LDL). LDL is anti-fatty-liver, but pro-atherogenic.

  These all contribute to cardiovascular risk:

Unbalanced lipoproteins

High triglycerides

Inflammation

Oxidation

Bone demineralization

  If 4 of the 5 are a little iffy but 1 is several standard deviations above the mean health-wise, it's possible you'll live quite a long time.

 

Leo have you looked into ezetimibe, statins, and gamma tocotrienol for decreasing LDL/HDL ratio? Along with a bit of EPA/DHA to drastically lower triglyceride/HDL ratio?... Perhaps add some anti-inflammatory like bioavailable curcumin + nontraditional anti-oxidant like histidine or melatonin... and you just might probably be golden, at least for the fairly-long-term, even on full carnivore. Maybe not literally those compounds but along those lines.

Edited April 12, 2021 by The0Self

[The0Self]

51 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I took sodium and magnesium. It still wasn't great. Very light-headed and weak.

Not that you should do it again, but on a water fast, just 1-2 grams of sodium chloride a day will not be enough to maintain a blood pressure that keeps your vision from going dark and ears from ringing upon standing. Takes like 4-5g/day. At least. Magnesium is required too but not nearly that much.

[Bogdan]

7 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Bogdan

   My main point is that an elimination diet solves the problem temporarily. Temporarily. It provides some relief. That is much better than being in agonizing pain. This does not mean being in carnivore diet for your whole life. Leo is doing this temporarily.

I agree with that it offers relief but it does not solve the gut issue. I have considered going carnivore, but my symptoms aren't as worse as Leo's. Currently i can manage until i gather all the money to get treatment.

7 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Bogdan

  Dog analogy is bullshit, sorry. Humans have selectively bred wolves with traits desirable for humans to utilize, hence we have dogs. I get your point, that if you had your way, humanity would be so much simpler to understand. That is not the case. Humans are complex bull shitting animals.

It was an analogy ...

7 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Bogdan

   Have you considered that Leo has tried Gojiman's approach, and the treatment didn't work, and out of not causing you stress and depression, that he decided to not explicitly say otherwise, to not hurt your ego?

LOL

Edited April 12, 2021 by Bogdan

[The0Self]

1 hour ago, Bogdan said:

LOL

Guess the answer is no...

On the other hand... Really though, you might be putting all your eggs in one basket if you're planning on getting treated by Gojiman and are 100% convinced, e.g. that "it just simply will definitely work and there's no way it's not working -- exactly as I plan for it to." (etc) You might just view it as another intervention and remain hopeful you'll keep looking for, and find, a solution to your particular situation.

At first glance, the way you speak on this topic indicates one of two things: 1. That you already solved your issues and are warning others not to make the same mistakes you did, or 2. That you haven't solved your issues, and by proselytizing to others, you are proving to yourself that you have nothing to worry about, by telling others of the virtues and airtight/foolproof logic of a particular solution -- the solution you have planned for yourself, which definitely will (must) work...

Edited April 12, 2021 by The0Self

[intotheblack]

@Leo Gura @aurum the water from young coconuts is full of electrolytes.. have you tried drinking that on a fast?  I wonder if that would help when needing an energy boost.   
 

[Carl-Richard]

7 minutes ago, intotheblack said:

the water from young coconuts is full of electrolytes

and carbohydrates which would end the fast.

[intotheblack]

6 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

and carbohydrates which would end the fast.

Yes there are some natural sugars.  But if you were on the verge of collapse and in pain from starvation it would be something to replenish you without eating something. 
 

[Carl-Richard]

7 minutes ago, intotheblack said:

Yes there are some natural sugars.  But if you were on the verge of collapse and in pain from starvation it would be something to replenish you without eating something. 

Technically you would be eating something. Carbohydrates is food

Any calories coming from the outside will mess with the process of going into ketosis and make it even more unbearable.

Edited April 12, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[Bogdan]

3 hours ago, The0Self said:

Guess the answer is no...

On the other hand... Really though, you might be putting all your eggs in one basket if you're planning on getting treated by Gojiman and are 100% convinced, e.g. that "it just simply will definitely work and there's no way it's not working -- exactly as I plan for it to." (etc) You might just view it as another intervention and remain hopeful you'll keep looking for, and find, a solution to your particular situation.

At first glance, the way you speak on this topic indicates one of two things: 1. That you already solved your issues and are warning others not to make the same mistakes you did, or 2. That you haven't solved your issues, and by proselytizing to others, you are proving to yourself that you have nothing to worry about, by telling others of the virtues and airtight/foolproof logic of a particular solution -- the solution you have planned for yourself, which definitely will (must) work...

From what Leo described he didn't try what i'm suggesting. And if he did he would've corrected me.

I'm not expecting it to work 100% guaranteed and i'm not putting my eggs in only one basket. It is the thing that makes the most sense and that produces the most results from what i've found so far. So yes i'm hopeful but also skeptical. 

My intention is not to proselytize. What i observe is a general closed-mindedness and that's what i'm trying to point out - and of course i am not immune to that, as Leo often says. Generally, people who go carnivore are the ones with the worst gut issues that can't possibly imagine that it's possible to fix their gut and go vegan (or mostly plant based whatever, i'm not saying you should go 100% vegan). So they form all sorts of ego patterns and whatnot to convince themselves of that. That's where nut cases like Paul Saladino, Ken Berry, Shaun Baker and even Joe Rogan make things worse. Because they have a certain authority and in their minds veganism will always be bullshit and the antinutrients in plants are the devil (which they are not, btw, it's again their gut issues that's reacting to those otherwise harmless substances). On the other hand, vegans are generally toxic SD green hippies that moralize about killing animals, and couldn't see the necessity of someone going carnivore in the short term. 

But that's where i think vegans are also right in the sense that there is no point in prolonging the carnivore phase, and that you should go directly into treatment.

There's nothing special about Gojiman, even he himself said so. And he isn't the only one that's getting results with this type of approach. But from what i and anyone can observe, from looking at his case studies, he is getting actual results, and he has dedicated his life to this. 

As Leo said in his last integrity video, given the nature of the things he talks about, i expect Leo to be open minded. So that's what i'm so insistent when i say "Leo, if you haven't tried working with Gojiman (for example), then you haven't actually tried everything". And i expect of him not to get triggered, and to have a productive conversation. I also hope and expect of him to point out any flaws in my arguments (which he does!)

Of course i would ideally be talking after having gotten treatment, presenting personal experience. But it's taking me a long ass time to gather money, so until then it's conversation i guess.

Edited April 12, 2021 by Bogdan

[Leo Gura]

@Bogdan Gojiman's cure for SIBO is nothing new or special. It's the standard anti-microbial supplement treatment plan: allicin, berberine, and grapefruit seed extract.

I've been taking those for months to no avail.

And I am still experimenting with various supplement combos.

Carnivore diet has been way more effective for me then any supplement combo I've tried so far. And I've tried something like 100+ supplements.

Supplements are useless when there is an underlying autoimmune condition triggered by diet and toxins.

[SS10]

@Leo Gura Is this genetic in your family or is this a condition that you have specifically? 

[Michael569]

@Bogdan make sure you don't idealize Gojiman, he has been called out on a lot of his bullshit. 

Yes, he offers a lot of good value but not everything he says or believes is true