Carnivore cannot heal the gut, Leo

[Derek White]

@Leo Gura Can you share your cooking methods for meat? Do you marinate it? How do you prepare it?

I've been dealing with chronic fatigue for quite some time now, so I was thinking about introducing some meat in my diet too.

3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

I'm not trying to sell vegetarianism, but I can relate to being opposed to any kind of mindless consumerism, which is what eating exclusively meat in spite of the consequences for others, the planet and possibly yourself is, in my opinion.

I know very little about cooking meat, in fact eating meat and eggs is prohibited in the religion I grew up in and was generally looked down upon in the culture. My family only occasionally ate chicken, like once a month; we weren't religious. It is interesting to see different people's attitudes around the globe to meat eating. 

[The0Self]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

No way. Rice and potatoes are some of the worse aggravators of my SIBO.

I see. That's rather unfortunate, but certainly not without recourse, by any means.

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Completely gone as long as I keep eating meat regularly. If I skip a meal, it comes back. If I eat carbs or plants, it comes back. If I go vegan it is worst of all.

(^^ referring to cold extremities ^^)

Interesting. To me this sounds like excess protein from carnivore is totally sufficient for your optimal supply of glucose, and by extension, T3... due to protein->glucose conversion downstream from the gut. Perhaps by sheer coincidence, it appears to be coaxing-out an ideal homeostatic balance of T3, insulin, and cortisol -- this is definitely the case if you do in fact not suffer from cold extremities while on this diet, as this indicates adrenal sufficiency and minimal (good) (nor)epinephrine/catecholamines. And if high-carb doesn't work for whatever reason (as seems to be your situation), high protein is simply the next best option. Sounds like it's working pretty well! Hope you keep troubleshooting / perhaps do what you can about finding a long-term solution or alteration that can allay the potential associated cholesterol/cardiovascular hazards of carnivore.

Completely irrelevant: I'm sure you already know, but with all this excess protein, you will be unable to enter ketosis (unless your protein intake is somehow far less than what I assume). Not that you would ever want to -- just pointing it out, fwiw.

Also, I have 2 questions:

**What is your reaction to egg whites? (I think I remember you saying whole eggs caused issues).

**How many grams of protein would you estimate you consume in a day? In general, the more protein the better (in all sorts of ways), but there are slight diminishing returns at upwards of 100-120g/d, very prominent diminishing returns at 1g / lb bodyweight, and no further benefits (in most cases; when anabolic drugs aren't in the picture) when intake surpasses around 240g/d, at which point undigested protein can theoretically be an issue -- perhaps that is causing your recent stomach pains?

 

Oh, and a nifty little tidbit: if you're ever in that diet-related low-consciousness / "anti-psychedelic" state, a potential short-term solution for that is intranasal insulin. Worked like a charm for me. Aspart is by far the best, but Humulin R actually works too, and it's otc. If you know someone with type 1, they probably have Novolog/aspart.

Edited April 11, 2021 by The0Self

[Leo Gura]

52 minutes ago, The0Self said:

Also, I have 2 questions:

**What is your reaction to egg whites? (I think I remember you saying whole eggs caused issues).

I tried a bit of egg white protein powder and it didn't sit well with me.

But at this point basically nothing sits well with me. Even meat causes me problems at times. My condition is very unpredictable. Sometimes a food causes problems and other days it doesn't.

Quote

**How many grams of protein would you estimate you consume in a day?

Close to 3lbs of meat/chicken/salmon all combined per day.

On carnivore you got little choice in the matter. You must eat however much calories your body requires per day. Oil and butter can help reduce the meat intake a bit.

[Preety_India]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

 

Close to 3lbs of meat/chicken/salmon all combined per day.

Is that the reason why your body has been looking so buff these days? 

 

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Preety_India said:

Is that the reason why your body has been looking so buff these days?

No, my body hasn't changed. I actually lost about 5 pounds after the fast.

[Osaid]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I've had it before but not recently. I found it to be overhyped. I would rather consume olive oil.

The hype comes from the fact that it very easily gets converted into ketones because of how quickly it gets digested. That's the main benefit. Olive oil is fine too, but it doesn't have that benefit.

[Carl-Richard]

16 hours ago, datamonster said:

This is the point where I have to unfollow Acutalized.org. I cannot support someone who is that inconsiderate of the suffering of others and the global problems related to animal agriculture that we are facing collectively. Good luck Leo, I hope it helps you cure your personal problems at least.

smol brain take

[Preety_India]

@Husseinisdoingfine  oh yeah yeah 

I'm a Leo Simp

Nothing wrong with simping God. Actually better than simping humans. 

 

[The0Self]

14 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Close to 3lbs of meat/chicken/salmon all combined per day.

So about 90-140g x 3 = 270-420g/day. Yeah, if there's someway, somehow, that you can get it down to about 240g/day, that would theoretically be quite beneficial. 240g basically seems to be the optimal daily protein intake -- even if it's only marginally more healthy than 120, that doesn't change the fact that 240 is best. I wish there was some carb source you could eat, but meat + healthy fats is the next best thing. I would experiment with various fats and get blood work. Perhaps have a period where you eat only non-polyunsaturated fats like coconut oil, meat, butter, and olive oil. And another period when you limit saturated fats. The saturated fat vs polyunsaturated fat debate is a holistic nightmare -- it's almost so convoluted, nothing less than real-world, self-experimentation troubleshooting will suffice.

[Carl-Richard]

3 hours ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

@Leo Gura Have you considered hunting?

Why?

[The0Self]

39 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Why?

Because he's eating a lot of meat, I would assume. Sounds like a great idea. I don't think I have the stomach for it, but I can see it as a potentially humane and natural practice. Oh man... if I was on an obligatory carnivore diet, I would probably learn about deer hunting. I love deer jerky -- having it home-made and in high supply?.. That would be amazing.

[Carl-Richard]

2 minutes ago, The0Self said:

Because he's eating a lot of meat, I would assume. Sounds like a great idea. I don't think I have the stomach for it, but I can see it as a potentially humane and natural practice. Oh man... if I was on an obligatory carnivore diet, I would probably learn about deer hunting. I love deer jerky -- having it home-made and in high supply?.. That would be amazing.

I can't imagine anyone in the modern world who would go hunting just for food.

[Thought Art]

Spiralina? 

[StarStruck]

12 hours ago, neutralempty said:

@Danioover9000 yeah, it suspect it would have been better if he did that but started with plants first. Because it possible the meats are ruining his gut for the plants.

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, The0Self said:

Yeah, if there's someway, somehow, that you can get it down to about 240g/day, that would theoretically be quite beneficial.

I don't buy this logic.

I don't think there is any protein intake limits for the body, within reason.

Simply eat until you are full.

[Bogdan]

10 hours ago, Eternity said:

@Zeitgeist   That's a scare tactic.  According to recent research, we are true omnivores.  So meat in our diet is not poisonous to us.  But I've done carnivore before for about a year until I just got so bored I couldn't look at another piece of meat.  I have not had any of the problems you are talking about.  In fact meat is recommended as part of an elimination diet. The last month I've gone back to eating vegetables but not strictly vegetables.  Vegetables have lectins which are toxic to many species including us, and for some people the lectins just wreak havoc on their systems.

I don't understand why you are trying to sell vegetarianism so hard.  What we eat should not be a political issue.  It's a personal issue.  What matters is if your body tolerates strictly veggies or not.  If you are sick every time you eat them, then the choice is up to you to eat them or not.  There is no meat party and veggie party that I know of, so there is nothing to debate.  Yes, I am well aware that vegetarians and meat eaters constantly argue about it, and I don't see why, personally.

If you are sick every time you eat vegetables you should consider that there might be an underlying issue that is giving you those symptoms. It's not the plants, and your body being incompatible with them. It's the gut problem! 

14 hours ago, intotheblack said:

I just watched the blog video.  Was very insightful, and sounds like a way to eliminate almost everything and then reintroduce certain things to see what you get a reaction from.  It's also a very extreme diet for one to take on and clearly is being done as a last resort.   

I want to try an elimination diet but I don't want to eat meat and will not support that system.  What could be another type of food one could live on for X amount of time?  I'm not having any stomach issues but I'm having some issues lately with back acne and skin rash (itchy blotchy skin particularly after showering.  Now I use only a sulphur & salicylic acid soap, but i still get this rash sometimes so it must be food related) why does there have to be toxins everywhere ? theres just no escape!

I would suggest that you are looking in the wrong direction. I mean, sure, try an elimination diet, but don't try to make it work long term. You clearly have something in you that is reacting to what you put in the body and also on the body, so consider taking some gut tests and working with a professional (never on your own) on solving them.

Elimination diets do not solve the problem. The problem is so complex that in my opinion you absolutely need to work with a specialist, such as Gojiman, who clearly produces undeniable 100% results. Not some half-assed "i went on carnivore and now i just have to keep my intake of beans and potatoes low and i'm fine" type of stuff. Which is still great, better than before, but the problem is not fixed!

There are literally thousands of different iterations of the same gut problem, and there are thousands of gut problems, and any combination of them on top of that. It's so freakin complex! And this is the first time in history when we actually are beginning to fully heal our gut issues and "heal our lower chakras". That's why everyone is showing so much resistance to it.

13 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Bogdan

  Is all your research only videos?

No, but i use ze magnificent internet in general. I did talk to a lot of doctors, though. I have many in my family and many of our peers are doctors since my eldest uncle was the headmaster of the University of Medicine here in my hometown. So i've had quite a few people to bounce my ideas off of. But Leo is right, these doctors don't really know much about gut health and nutrition and the interconectedness of stuff, so...

13 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

 What Leo is going through is a good example that human bodies are different and integrate foods differently. 

I find that the 80/20 or even 90/10 rule applies really well here. There are those weird rare exceptions and they become exponentially more rare the more we approach that 1%. But let's ignore those exceptions for now.

Also, i think this dog training analogy works well here: Not all dog's problems are the same, but all dogs are the same - meaning that they all have different traumas and psychological and behavioral issues (content), but the training principles, are the same (structure). 

Not all gut problems are the same, but all guts are the same (again, let's ignore the weird rare exceptions).

What ya'll seem to be missing is this distinction between the content of moving from one diet to another, and the structure, which is gut health.

 Of course, @Leo Gura i'm not suggesting that you should go off carnivore now, especially to a vegan diet lol. But i don't think that you're actually approaching the problem at it's root, which is your gut issues. And i'm sorry, but taking antibiotics on your own as you described doesn't seem a very wise or responsible way of approaching the problem. And it's possible that if you were to work with Gojiman some antibiotics will be involved at some point, and in your mind maybe "you already have tried that". But you didn't REALLY try it in the right context.

Ya know why i bring Gojiman up so much, Leo? Because i've watched all of his videos and all of your blog videos and what you have tried in the past is exactly what Gojiman suggests that you shouldn't do. Including the taking of antibiotics and fasting. And he is the one that actually solved his debilitating gut issues, and is reliably and consistently solving other's gut issues also. But i feel that i've made my point. I will try to stop now  

 

Again... what people don't seem to understand is that it's not the plants that are causing the gut problem. You're (probably) not one of those exceptions. The gut problem is what's reacting to the plants!

[mmKay]

@Leo Gura for me even ghee feels kinda inflamatory and gives me back acne. Are you going to eat organs? 

[max duewel]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I tried a bit of egg white protein powder and it didn't sit well with me.

But at this point basically nothing sits well with me. Even meat causes me problems at times. My condition is very unpredictable. Sometimes a food causes problems and other days it doesn't.

 

Sounds like the Universe is grooming you to become a breatharian 

[Yog]

9 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

I can't imagine anyone in the modern world who would go hunting just for food.

Its might be worth it even just for food. I remember Joe Rogan saying, that from 1 hunted elk, he stocked up a full freezer of meat that will last him for 6 months. And he is a big guy. Anyway that is whole another skill-set that has to be learned, few will go for it.

[bliss54]

Honestly I think i'd feel better eating meat, but I just don't feel good ethically

I feel guilty when I do, like it should be illegal

Edited April 11, 2021 by bliss54