I can't see the point of it all, how can I fix this?

[Podie45]

Not sure if this is a post for Serious Emotional Issues or Self-Actualization. I guess since I'm not venting & trying to understand how to better myself this fits Self-Actualization?

Here's the thing, I'm very lost with my meaning...

I can't help but wonder, in most situations, what the goal of that particular thing even is.

Let's set a few examples;

Social life:

 Social interaction is very draining. I mostly avoid people. I actually dread IRL interactions. I do not enjoy it and could care less about finding new friends. I see people having fun with eachothers, having sex, partying and all that... yet I want none of that. 

Money & Becoming Independant:

I can't help but feel annoyed with this one. I've been trying to start a business and I'm working a 9-5, but can't stop wondering why I'm even doing it. Sure, I need money to self-actualize, survive, enjoy life a bit and such. However, I'd rather just not exist. I do not care.

Status:

I do not care about getting likes, followers, posting pictures, sharing my life on Facebook or any of that stuff. What's the point? Who cares?

Relationships:

I do somewhat wish I could get a family and such, but the whole ''going to the gym, learning good social skills, impressing a partner etc...'' thing is quite tough. I don't really care enough to be doing that. I don't feel like I actually want one. Maybe I do? 

Life:

From what I understood from Leo's videos, the point of my life is to be part of the infinite loop of experiences that make reality possible. It doesn't really bother me much, but hey, whenever I walk outside everyday or enjoy some food I am just left unimpressed. I do understand that this is a beautiful creation but it just feels black and white.

 

I just don't really care. Is there any way to fix this?

I do not believe this is from a mental illness, but more like a lack of understanding. I wouldn't say dark night of the soul, but maybe?

Is enlightenment something that would turn things around?

 

+ Here is a small visual representation / gallery of what it feels like:

 

[Roy]

I'm going to fire from the hip a bit here but I'm going to help you consider some things because I've suffered from the exact same mindset and still am to a degree but making progress. Let me know if it helps or if you have any questions.

3 hours ago, Podie45 said:

 Social interaction is very draining. I mostly avoid people. I actually dread IRL interactions. I do not enjoy it and could care less about finding new friends. I see people having fun with eachothers, having sex, partying and all that... yet I want none of that. 

The interactions you're having end up being "draining" and "unenjoyable" probably because you have a low tolerance for people being vapid and talking about usual bullshit people talk about which is fine, but I'd argue it's mostly because you aren't approaching them with intent. You see you are actually half the equation in any interaction you are having. Obvious no? So if you want to have more meaningful, enjoyable interactions you need to take responsibility for making sure you're approaching people with energy, and with purpose. Don't get resentful and annoyed with people because they aren't putting in effort, focus on what YOU can do to make it meaningful and see how you feel.

You see you actually DO want new friends, perhaps a party once in a while, etc, but you've subconsciously convinced yourself you don't want those things because you are letting your interactions play out in a "default" way that is really boring and unenjoyable, which reinforces the feeling that you don't want them. This doesn't mean you have to change into an exploding social butterfly, but try and take responsibility for your own lack of effort here.

Your effort is the X factor that heavily affects your results. Which is great news for you, because you can control that!

3 hours ago, Podie45 said:

I can't help but feel annoyed with this one. I've been trying to start a business and I'm working a 9-5, but can't stop wondering why I'm even doing it. Sure, I need money to self-actualize, survive, enjoy life a bit and such. However, I'd rather just not exist. I do not care.

This is one of those things that you've got to "suck up" in a sense, which sucks to hear but it's very necessary. What you can do to make the situation better is change your relationship with the money you are getting, and the motivations you have for doing any of it. The problem is you are apathetic and aren't excited, because you are just fulfilling basic survival. You see this can't be your only reason as that's just a default that's always there, and you didn't create it yourself so it's no wonder it's not very exciting right?

You need to sit down and seriously deliberate and create reasons for the "why", and the things you "gotta do" will go a lot smoother for you. I mean list them and be specific. The problem is you are probably too vague, and therefore don't give a shit.

- To "survive". Survive where? Are you surviving somewhere because it's convenient, or do you want to be somewhere awesome that will make you happier?

- To "enjoy life a bit". Can you see how your language here is poor? Do you want to enjoy things just a bit? Or would you rather enjoy them A LOT? So what is something you enjoy A LOT, and what resources will it take to do it?

Can you see that the process of acquiring those resources will be way more enjoyable if you have a tangible reason for doing so and not just because you "have" to?

3 hours ago, Podie45 said:

I do not care about getting likes, followers, posting pictures, sharing my life on Facebook or any of that stuff. What's the point? Who cares?

I actually agree with you here, these things can become toxic and draining. So if you genuinely aren't interested in investing in them, then don't.

You do need to take a certain level of pride in your basic reputation though. Whether it's just at your work for example, do you want to be known as a slacker or the guy who is reliable and focuses on what's important? So you may feel that it's all pointless and you don't care personally on a superficial level, but I'd argue that subconsciously you do care, because it affects your basic self-esteem. If that is suffering you will feel that, and won't like it.

3 hours ago, Podie45 said:

I do somewhat wish I could get a family and such, but the whole ''going to the gym, learning good social skills, impressing a partner etc...'' thing is quite tough. I don't really care enough to be doing that. I don't feel like I actually want one. Maybe I do? 

There is nothing wrong with having minimal relationships and not too many ones you don't need, but it is important to have them. As family and friends are there to pick each other up when we're struggling, and because it's important to have people to connect with so you have other perspectives to consider. You can't just go about life doing everything and learning everything by yourself. You will be limited by your own biases and hit endless roadblocks if you don't have other people to learn from and to help you.

It is in your best interest to build and sustain high quality relationships. Take it seriously until it becomes easy for you, you will be glad you did.

3 hours ago, Podie45 said:

From what I understood from Leo's videos, the point of my life is to be part of the infinite loop of experiences that make reality possible. It doesn't really bother me much, but hey, whenever I walk outside everyday or enjoy some food I am just left unimpressed. I do understand that this is a beautiful creation but it just feels black and white.

Right now what is happening is you are afloat in a sea of nihilism and apathy, you have lost touch with the "magic" of reality. Maybe it was your environment that affected you, or a bad experience, but no matter how you are feeling or what has happened remember it is always a possibility for you to find that magic again, but YOU have to find it. You can't just keep floating and hope you'll stumble upon it, or that someone will just "give" it to you.

The foundational point of this exploration process is that the results generated have to be completely personal and independent, of course you can ask others for help like you are doing with this thread, it goes back to what I said about not being alone so much that your limitations keep you stuck.

You are intuitively searching for something you know you need and will make you overall happier, but because you aren't finding it right away you are letting your lack of results > impact your attitude about it.

The work that needs to be done that will help you fix this is changing your attitude so that it > impacts the results, not the other way around.

Hope this helps. Cheers @Podie45 

Edited April 10, 2021 by Roy

[Nahm]

On 4/9/2021 at 10:53 PM, Podie45 said:

Maybe I do? 

I think that is the case for everything you mentioned. If you didn’t desire it, you wouldn’t be focusing on it. Exploring and understanding emotion, specifically jealousy, stands to set your passion free. Jealousy is an initial interpretation of emotion which reveals itself to be desire to create and experience things you see others creating & experiencing. If you feel a lack of direction, this understanding will fill you with direction. Jealousy is very good, and there is much clarity in acknowledging it, and much inspiration in understanding & expressing it. Making a dreamboard stands to uncover your general and unique passions you desire to focus on and create. If you haven’t, I’d also really consider taking Leo’s life purpose course. 

There is really nothing in need of ‘fixing’. Anything whatsoever which could be said to be ‘the point’, would be a reference to experience. If you allow it to be that simple, ‘the point’ is revealed - your experience. Whatever you’re focusing on, you’re experiencing, and you’re free to focus on what you want. 

[GreenLight]

Have to say that i have felt exactly the same as you on most points.

Enlightment and Awakening would probably help out.

Honestly, i do not think it is something with the brain only but with the ego vehicle that's ingrained in your body.

As long you got the seeking impulse then everything should be fine. That's the most important thing. Some people are ignoring the seeking impulse by shopping, drinking and fucking around. Then no wonder that some call us soul-dead.

I ignored the seeking impulse to much and got my emotional body turned to stone. I felt nothing. I suffered so much that one day i gave up completely and first time disedintified from the mind. That how i found spirituality. I remember sitting on my sofa and reading Eckhart Tolle his books. It connected with me first time with this deep sense of peace. I didn't feel anything besides this peace by being in the present moment. It was like a coping strategy for me. After a few years i finally had the transcendental emotions like peace, joy and happiness. Which i think we're all beyond the animal desires-emotions. Although i still had this anhedonia which i think is when the false self is repressed or dying. After years of healing. I decided to fuck up myself with weed. I got back some emotions buried deep in my freudian uncouscious. That ended up weirdly but that's another story.

 

 

Edited April 12, 2021 by GreenLight

[Nightwise]

Hey my friend, this is me from the future (relative to when I started typing). It seems like I felt like really going onto a lengthy monologue here, so if you don't want to read all of this but you do want to catch the essence of what I was saying, look for the TL;DR summary at the bottom of this post.

I've heard spiritual teachers talk about how everything in life is perfection and all happens exactly as it should be, however this to you (and frankly, still to me as well) is simply some beatific sounding theories that really don't mean anything until you realize something like that for yourself.

Last summer, I went through an extraordinarily difficult phase in my life of which this sense of meaninglessness of it all was one of its most prominent features. In particular, I couldn't make sense as to what good this suffering ultimately served, and that question really tormented me. Some nice theory I had read in a book somewhere or something wasn't going to suffice for that.

When I was slowly getting out of this very dark phase in my life primarily during the fall of last year, I really sought help from people and organisations to get me back on track and get my mental health and really just my life in general in check again. I had never done that in my life before to the extent  that I was doing that now; Not even close. I also tried very hard to find some kind of handhold to work on myself in my personal time by for instance trying out the Life Purpose course that Leo offers on this website, and journaling every day using the GLA(N)D- journaling method and trying to stick to that every single day (basically it's a sort of 'positive thinking' method, but one that's actually helpful and grounded in reality, instead of it being 'wishful thinking' of sorts. It really helps to redirect your focus from the negative and the problems in your life to a more empowering and positive focus and mindset. I personally added the N for 'Noticed' because I also found it helpful to write down some quality in myself or a situation that I noticed had changed in a positive way. Use this link for more information about the technique).

What I started to notice especially when I started really talking to a couple of people (primarily; A therapist, a spiritual counselor, and first and foremost a person from an organisation of which every volunteer has a personal background of having dealt with mental health issues themselves), I started to notice that in these conversation, pouring myself out and opening myself up in ways that I had never done before and just telling them exactly what was on my mind and the struggles I was dealing with and had been dealing with, I felt from them a compassion, an understanding, an empowerment, and first and foremost this sense of connection I had so desperately missed. And somehow, coupled with still using that GLAND-method and paying extra attention to the sparse moments in which I did feel a little better, these better moments and particularly these conversations meant so much to me, and these things —at least in the very beginning of my recovery— is what gave my life a sense of meaning again. These few lights in the dark meant so much to me if this almost all-pervading darkness is all I had known for the past couple of months.

When I was in my deepest moments of desperation, it didn't really seem like things would ever be totally okay again. I thought that this dark phase would have messed me up so much that I would never really fully recover from it again, or at least not for a long, long time.

Surprised was I to find how quickly I could go from feeling absolutely alienated from life and hopelessly confused and divided to a place where I started to feel peaceful and connected again, both to myself and others.

And I learned a couple of things about meaning.

Logically, nothing really ever changed so much as far as meaning is concerned. I never had some grandiose insight into the absolute nature of reality understanding everything and why it was happening and understanding the perfection of it all... none of that. I neither found a good reason by doing deep metaphysical contemplation and philosophy that did it all for me.

It is the sense, the feeling that changed. And paradoxically, at the same time a much greater detachment from the need to seek some kind of meaning or purpose.

There are two ways to ask: "What is the point of life?". The first way is out of a genuine curiosity, not based out of fear or dissatisfaction, but just because you're genuinely curious and interested and like to contemplate about it.

The second way to ask this question stems out of the feeling of, as I said, fear and dissatisfaction with life. You don't feel whole, you don't feel connected, and the mind is conditioned to want to find some resolution to that feeling of lack. So it starts to think. Depending on where you're at, you might either frantically try to grab hold of some theory you hope will be satisfactory enough to keep holding onto, or you might have already concluded for yourself that really there is no purpose to life, and you're asking the question not to get an answer, but more as an expression of frustration and hopelessness.

I can very much understand from personal experience that it can be extremely tempting to try to 'figure it out' out from this place of lack, needing to find some resolution or justification for you being alive at all, for you to be here to begin with.

I also very much understand from personal experience that no matter what logic or theory you come up with, it ultimately just doesn't remove this feeling of lack, inner conflict and separation.

For me what ultimately did it was that I was too afraid to commit suicide, especially given the fact that I wasn't an atheist (and thus was unable to believe that suicide 'would end it all'), and that I just needed to go on with my life and try to make something out of it, even though at that point it didn't really feel as if things would ever be okay again or that it would be worth it in the first place. I had to go on, despite all the fears and hopelessness.

Throughout the weeks and months as I kept going with that attitude, I started having conversations, I joined a 'depression group' where I could talk about my experiences, I found myself a care farm where I would be at 3 days in the week, I had multiple personal goals I tried to stick to (talked about this earlier, also tried meditating every day after some time), I listened to guided meditations and (at first) daily hypnosis sessions, I also started listening again to spiritual teachers, primarily Adyashanti, and his talks also really helped me to come to this to place of Trust, Surrender and Faith again.

And ultimately this capacity for 'just doing the damn things that work and leaving out all the rest' was something that I never lost, whilst at the same time also starting to feel better and more connected to myself and others. The paradox is that this refusal or even moreso fatigue of wanting to figure it all out in your head much more easily and effectively will get you to that point where you will be able to abide non-reactively in the exact experience you're having at that moment. Then, there is no more subject or ego that wishes the present moment or the experience to be any different than it is. There will be no division anymore. Without this division, if the letting go is complete, you will find yourself being at peace with whatever is. This is complicated territory to explain in accurate terms, and honestly I question if I'm even capable of making sense of it logically even to myself, but I'm trying it anyways.

To me, it is more about your relationship to your experience than even the peace or serenity that comes when you have surrendered to the present moment.

In other words: even if no background sense of serenity or connectedness would come, it wouldn't be about that still, but it would be about just witnessing it and not reacting to it and not needing anything to be different. That to me, is primary.

So as I said, the more you are capable of allowing all of your thoughts and feelings and experiences to be by not reacting to it by thinking about it or judging it, the more everything will naturally fall together, and any question of meaning at that point will just be meaningless (interesting play of words), as the need for meaning will only arise whenever you are not whole and connected to yourself.

At the same time though, the more pressure from your mind, your emotions and your environment you come to encounter, the harder it will be to stay in that detached yet unified state (yes, they paradoxically come together). Interestingly enough, I in my personal experience encounter cycles between being able to stay very or relatively detached from my mind and my emotions even when my emotional-energetical system is really acting up, but also vica versa: when there is relatively little pressure from my emotional system but then I can already be quite discontent and reactive with fairly little negative emotions and thus creating a division in that way.

Because it's not always as easy to stay detached from your mind and your emotions, this is why it is (amongst other things) important to explore spirituality both as a teaching and as an embodied practice (or exploration). Here we come back to meaning again. What spirituality is in essence is that it is the pursuit or endeavour in finding a connection with something greater than yourself, greater or more encompassing than your ego. In essence, this is really what all of humanity either consciously or unconsciously is doing. Most of humanity, however, seeks this 'greater something' outside of themselves in the relative world as a substitute for a lack of unity within themselves. The unfortunate thing here in the west is that many people now have identified themselves as 'atheistic' or otherwise see spiritual teachings and practices as something not worth pursuing either because it's invalid according to them, or just not important enough for serious consideration, usually just out of a unfortunate misunderstanding of what spirituality actually is, instead of what they are projecting that it is.

Taking spiritual teachings seriously implies that you are open-minded enough to be willing to take seriously the notion that there is a source that is greater, deeper and wider than yourself that you can come to unify yourself with.

The more you deepen your inquiry into spiritual teachings and your spiritual practices, the more your focus and aim in life will start to shift from trying to find that sense of peace and connection through external and indirect means, to seeking for that source of peace, love and tranquillity  directly, instead of making countless alterations and adjustments in your day-to-day worldly life trying to find that feeling or sense.

That's what spirituality effectively is good for: it shifts your focus from trying to find the meaning and satisfaction in the temporary and impermanent dimension of life towards the dimension of which this (sense of) meaning and satisfaction is always and already the case. You just have to learn how to connect and stay connected with it.

So where was I getting at with this? I do have a tendency to stray off-course from the previous theme or subject I hadn't finished talking about.

Ah, I remember. Spirituality makes you more cognisant that there is a deeper realm to life of satisfaction, love and peace which is not impermanent. It does not only have the capacity to provide greater peaceful or even mystical experiences whilst for instance reading or listening to spiritual texts or talks, or perhaps whilst doing practices or inner explorations (which you may not have come to do had you not given spirituality a serious chance), but it also gives you a more satisfactory and meaningful logical system to go by as opposed to the materialistic and atheistic paradigm in which everything that is not an organism is essentially dead and meaningless matter, which is here by chance, and so is the fact that we happen to be alive at this moment, but before we were here, we were nothing, and after we're dead, we're also nothing; gone.

Therefore, atheists and materialists and such seek to derive their meaning from the external world in things such as: relationships, careers, social communities, material possessions, physical health, and at best: improving character attributes, improving mental health and fortitude, and doing (usually relatively shallow) philosophical inquiry.

The thing is however, what have people who derive all their meaning in life out of these impermanent focus points have left when it all falls away? We see it happen all the time in the world: relationships fall apart, careers end abruptly, physical disease happens. Even if you've worked on yourself psychologically very hard you will still suffer from a lack of meaning that you will come upon when you or your wife slowly withers away from a terminal cancer; Unless you can make a spiritual connection to the situation you find yourself in —whether you're cognisant that it's a spiritual connection or not. If you have been consciously focusing on spirituality for some time at that point, however, this spiritual connection will be much more easily made to that situation, without your otherwise atheistically conditioned mind throwing objections in the way as to how it is all meaningless and this distracting you from that connection at every moment you do try to surrender and let it all go.

I could type more, I wanted to type more, but I notice I'm losing my focus after hours of writing, and knowing myself I will not come back to this text later again to continue writing it, so I'm gonna put out my TL;DR summary quickly, and then I'll leave it be for now

Yes, I know all of this writing was probably ultimately a lot more about me wanting to express a whole lot of ideas I had saved up instead of it being about really responding to the need of the questioner, but so be it. This is the way I wanted it for now.

TL;DR summary

As far as I've known so far in my life, I have not found any absolute meaning or 'point' to life as far as I can intellectually relate to it. However, it is important to realize that this whole search for 'meaning' in itself often (if it's done from a place of lack) is merely a distraction from the ego-mind to prevent you from directly coming into contact and unifying yourself with whatever experience you're having at the moment. Your inquiring about the point of life or generally just your resistance towards your experience of the present moment is merely a distraction for non-judgmental present-moment awareness to come forward.

Paradoxically, once you let go of your need to find any point or meaning and come directly into contact with your direct experience of Being, you will find yourself connected with something greater than yourself, and that very connection is what will give you this sense of meaning and connection you had been searching for. You will not find this meaning or 'point of life' as a thought; At least not ultimately. But I do admit that (knowing that) you have certain structures and activities and coaches, therapists and friends to talk to and generally just things in your life to look forward to can be used as a temporary means to get yourself to a place where surrendering will become much easier for you. Things like these can help you connect and therefore reconnect with this sense of meaning, and from there on out with a more stable basis it will generally become easier to reconnect on your own.

Meaning can be found through different means in the external world, with things like relationships and deep conversations, and things like contribution and having an ambition or a life purpose. Also seek out activities and communities that help you to connect more to life, and all of this will help you to feel better. Feeling better equals a greater sense of meaning in your life, as feeling and meaning are more or less synonymous. Be mindful of your mind objecting with thoughts like "But what's the point of all of this?" when engaging in activities that are supposed to make you feel better, as exactly that kind of thought is the thought that will trap you in preventing things from improving for yourself, and in thereby finding actual meaning

So do things in the external world and also on a psychological or character level that make you feel better and more connected, and you will find a greater sense of meaning simultaneously with that. Along with that, see if you can also connect with this 'source greater than yourself' directly at times in between your activities. A guided meditation or hypnosis session from youtube or such may help with that, or perhaps a satsang or a spiritual teaching from a teacher you feel a lot for.

Remember, meaning is feeling. But also, know that there is a capacity of just being the witness where you just are with whatever is, and where then the question of meaning is not relevant. And this is the ultimate; choiceless awareness. See if you can connect with that too, at times.

[Blackhawk]

There is no need to write books about this subject. It can be written in a single short sentence:

The point for you is to not suffer.

 

How can that be achieved? Who knows. You are programmed to search for whatever makes you suffer the least/make you most happy until you die. So that is what you will do until your death, no matter what advice people will give you. This is of course also the reason why you started this thread. It is running your entire life.

Edited April 11, 2021 by Blackhawk