is the true self "nothing" or infinite love?

[CBDinfused]

I am having a hard time understanding the philosophy of this group as semantics often get into the way but could someone please clarify some things for me?

It seems like the "levels" one goes through, in the path to enlightenment are something along the lines of surrendering all concepts (the self, the body, thought, the mind) and eventually you will reach a state where you are experiencing "pure being" which some call "infinite love" - but then I have also heard that there is a step further, when even the observer is dissolved into nothingness, in which case, why is love the true self? isn't it nothingness? 

The reason why I ask is because I often hear enlightened ones speaking about things like "everything is love" or that "love is what binds the universe together", but it is difficult for me to understand why love has this position of superiority, as opposed to its opposite, which is hate and/or ego consciousness. 

I guess why I am asking is because I want to know how to better explain to others that the true self is "infinite love", rather than the true self being "Nothing" and love and ego/separation radiate equally from this point. How would you explain to someone that love is the real state, in a world filled equally with suffering, pain, hatred etc? (I understand that when you meditate, and clear your mind, you gravitate towards love, but that doesn't mean it is the "true self", it only means that it is another state of many. Plus, most people don't meditate so who is to say that infinite love is the natural or true state, when you could argue that ego consciousness is actually the true state, and infinite love is a heightened state gained through meditation). 

On a side note, Did Buddha ever speak about love? Because it seems to be absent from the mainstream doctrine at least. It seems more like that the true self is simply lack of attachment (even to the people around you) until you realize that all is nothing.  He did speak about compassion, but Buddhist literature seems void of the concept of "dissolving the ego to unlock selfless love" while it seems to be the core message of say, Christianity. 
 

Edited April 9, 2021 by CBDinfused

[Mason Riggle]

@CBDinfused I like the analogy of 'lightning'... what is 'the path' of lightning? Well, it's 'the path of least resistance'. It doesn't make sense to say, 'why doesn't it take the path of most resistance?'

"Love" is the 'path of least resistance'.. it's 'what's always happening'.  It's the only thing that 'can be happening'. 

Reality is how it is, because that's how it loves to be... and you're all of that.  It seems that sometimes reality Loves to pretend it's not itself.. that it's separate from itself.. that it's you. 

[Nahm]

@CBDinfused

The sky is always clear, but clouds come & go and seem to obstruct, and it seems the sky is not clear, when it actually always is. In the same sense, focusing on existential thinking is like focusing on the clouds, and asking about the “mystery” of the clear sky. 

[Inliytened1]

@CBDinfused think of these as different facets of the same Truth.  They are facets of the Absolute  while simultaneously they are the Absolute.  And you can  become  conscious  of one facet of the Absolute while not become  conscious  of another  facet.  That doesn't  mean you didn't  awaken to the Absolute.

[CBDinfused]

1 minute ago, Nahm said:

@CBDinfused

The sky is always clear, but clouds come & go and seem to obstruct, and it seems the sky is not clear, when it actually always is. In the same sense, focusing on existential thinking is like focusing on the clouds, and asking about the “mystery” of the clear sky. 

I like the analogy given by Mason, but the one with clouds still poses my original question. In the UK the sky is never clear, only sometimes, so who is to say that the sky is the state, and the clouds are not? 

[Nahm]

@CBDinfused

The point of the analogy is that the sky is not a state. It is not dual, as in sometimes clear, and sometimes not clear. 

[CBDinfused]

9 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said:

@CBDinfused I like the analogy of 'lightning'... what is 'the path' of lightning? Well, it's 'the path of least resistance'. It doesn't make sense to say, 'why doesn't it take the path of most resistance?'

"Love" is the 'path of least resistance'.. it's 'what's always happening'.  It's the only thing that 'can be happening'. 

Reality is how it is, because that's how it loves to be... and you're all of that.  It seems that sometimes reality Loves to pretend it's not itself.. that it's separate from itself.. that it's you. 

you lose me at the "only thing that 'can be happening'". What do you mean with "love is the only that can be happening" when there are clearly other things beyond love that are also happening? (pain). Right now I am at work, I am stressing because I am not focusing on my work, and instead I am wasting my time on online forums. This is also "happening" 

[CBDinfused]

3 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@CBDinfused

The point of the analogy is that the sky is not a state. It is not dual, as in sometimes clear, and sometimes not clear. 

Imagine two scenarios:

A man who is stressing about life (suffering) ventually lets go and finds the source of love that was always there

A man who is experiencing love eventually starts to resist to find the sense of ego and his distinct entity that was also always there

Why is only the first scenario true? 

[Mason Riggle]

12 minutes ago, CBDinfused said:

you lose me at the "only thing that 'can be happening'". What do you mean with "love is the only that can be happening" when there are clearly other things beyond love that are also happening? (pain). Right now I am at work, I am stressing because I am not focusing on my work, and instead I am wasting my time on online forums. This is also "happening" 

Recognize that love/hate is a duality, like up/down.. They only have meaning in relation to each other.. Up is really just 'not down'. 

What is happening is never 'what is not happening'.  The Universe does what it does, because it Loves to do it.

If you are inclined to take the the perspective that you are 'God' or 'The Universe' or 'Consciousness' and you are 'doing all of this', you must Love to do it, otherwise you'd be doing something else. 

Edited April 9, 2021 by Mason Riggle

[Nahm]

@CBDinfused

The scenarios are thoughts, or, the clouds. 

[CBDinfused]

3 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said:

Recognize that love/hate is a duality, like up/down.. They only have meaning in relation to each other.. Up is really just 'not down'. 

What is happening is never 'what is not happening'.  The Universe does what it does, and it's indifferent to how you feel about it, because it Loves to do it. 

If you are inclined to take the the perspective that you are 'God' or 'The Universe' or 'Consciousness' and you are 'doing all of this', you must Love to do it, otherwise you'd be doing something else. 

I am sorry to drag this on, but I do not quite follow your logic. The Universe does what it does because it loves to do it? I would argue that it has no choice. It also "has to" do what it hates. 

[CBDinfused]

5 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@CBDinfused

The scenarios are thoughts, or, the clouds. 

Yes, and my argument is that the clouds are always there , if not in your sky, in someone else's. I understand the picture you are trying to paint, in that the sky is the apriori origin, and everything around it is the temporal. But, my original question brings into doubt this premise. Perhaps the clouds are the origin and the clear sky is the illusion? 

Edited April 9, 2021 by CBDinfused

[Nahm]

@CBDinfused

There aren’t really any clouds, ‘they’re’ also the sky. 

[Mason Riggle]

1 minute ago, CBDinfused said:

I am sorry to drag this on, but I do not quite follow your logic. The Universe does what it does because it loves to do it? I would argue that it has no choice. It also "has to" do what it hates. 

Why doesn't lightning follow other paths?  Are there other paths the lightning 'could follow'? There is just one path.. the path of least resistance. 

Call that path what you will.. 'least resistance' is relative to 'more resistance'. We could use the word 'easiest'.. lightning takes the 'easiest' path.. 

Don't get caught up in the words 'love' and 'hate'. 

[Mason Riggle]

@Mason Riggle it's like 'wanting/not wanting'.. they are the same thing.. When I quench my thirst.. did I 'want to be not thirsty' or did I 'not want to be thirsty'?  Just two ways of saying the same thing.  

Do I want to go outside? Or is it that I don't want to be inside? Same thing. 

Can you ever do what you don't want to do? Only if you want to. 

Edited April 9, 2021 by Mason Riggle

[ivankiss]

It's Nothing to a labeling mind and Love to a pulsing heart.

[SoonHei]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

@CBDinfused

There aren’t really any clouds, ‘they’re’ also the sky. 

There are no clouds in the sky.
The sky just clouds .
& The clouds rain but only the Sky Reigns

[BipolarGrowth]

Nothingness is Love. Absolute Love hardly ever looks like relative love, but sometimes it can. 

Edited April 9, 2021 by BipolarGrowth

[Leo Gura]

@CBDinfused Love IS Nothing.

There is no contradiction.

[RedLine]

@CBDinfused as you have said it looks like God=Love is not ultimate really since it is and object and meditator can go deeper and get to Nothing. 

For me, for the moment I think buddhist atheist are right and God/Love enthusiastic people like Leo didn't get the higher stage of consciousness. Maybe I wrong. I can't see by myself at the moment since I am not and advanced mystic yet.