Newbie Question?

[bflare]

So if chasing happiness / fulfilment in external objects is pointless & attachment is the root of all suffering does that mean 99% of the earths population is basically unhappy & chasing futile objects, status, material items? If this is the case then what is the point of trying to master your life in areas such as finance, relationships, personal development if all of these things will never make you feel complete? We hear constantly about finding your life's purpose & if this was your last day alive, would you be happy with how you have lived your life. Are these two things irrelevant if they can never lead to happiness unless your enlightened? Are self help coaches, counsellors, psychiatrist people like Tony Robbins all pointless people as they are most probably living an unhappy existence also?

I have no idea of the answers to the  above, it is just something I have been pondering.

Look forward to your replies.

Thanks,

Tony.

 

 

 

 

 

[Azrael]

14 minutes ago, bflare said:

So if chasing happiness / fulfilment in external objects is pointless & attachment is the root of all suffering does that mean 99% of the earths population is basically unhappy & chasing futile objects, status, material items? If this is the case then what is the point of trying to master your life in areas such as finance, relationships, personal development if all of these things will never make you feel complete?

Be careful. You get a weak idea here. Just because external objects, purposes and whatsoever will not give you the fulfillment you project onto them, doesn't mean they aren't fun to play with. Your whole life, everything you do is like a dream in which you can do whatever you want. You can get completely lost and play the most far out games that there are, and if you look at society it is perfect at doing this. It is completely lost.

What we say with this whole enlightenment crap is simply: To the people who really are interested in why they're never really happy, why life can be such a drag or what this is all about.. there is a way to find that out and there is a recognition inside of you that can take place and then you see for yourself who you really are. So to those, who'd like that, go do it. But that doesn't mean that this wonderful playing ground called earth is useless and sick. It is what is, and that's fine. Have fun with it while knowing who you are and it'll be a fun ride.

[Prabhaker]

48 minutes ago, bflare said:

So if chasing happiness / fulfilment in external objects is pointless & attachment is the root of all suffering does that mean 99% of the earths population is basically unhappy & chasing futile objects, status, material items? If this is the case then what is the point of trying to master your life in areas such as finance, relationships, personal development if all of these things will never make you feel complete?

Chasing happiness / fulfilment in external objects is pointless & attachment is the root of all suffering, but it not your experience, don't believe it unless it becomes your own experience. First live consciously, so that you can learn from life. Buddha's experience is not going to help you.

Buddha cannot laugh, cannot dance, cannot sing, cannot love. Now what kind of life will it be? Hollow!

Buddha had chosen: he had chosen to escape from the world, he had chosen to leave his wife and child and old father, he had chosen to run away instead of encountering the world and facing the reality. It was a clear-cut choice against the world, against the material, in favor of the spiritual.

A man of totality has nothing to choose. His life is a life of choicelessness. Nothing to choose, nothing to discard; they are two sides of the same coin. If you choose something, you will have to discard something.

If you have a little inteligence, sooner or later the question is bound to arise: What is the point of it all? Why? It is impossible to avoid the question for long. And if you are very intelligent, it is always there, persistently there, hammering on your heart for the answer: Give me the answer! – Why? Only a very mediocre mind can go on being happy with it.

[Bob84]

@bflare Enlightenment is only a realization, you still need to eat, and want to do something.
Self development gives you tools that you can use when you choose to do so.
When you for example learn about marketing, you get the tools you need to go out and promote something. Without these tools it becomes very difficult, enlightened or not.

[Leo Gura]

You gotta understand that enlightenment is very serious business. It's not for the average guy looking for self-help. It requires a level of depth and commitment that most people aren't interested in. So don't expect someone like Tony Robbins to talk about it or understand it.

If you want true happiness, you will never find it outside of enlightenment. It's not possible to be happy living in delusion. But you can certainly trick yourself into thinking you're happy, in the same way you can trick yourself into thinking that McDonalds is good food.

[bflare]

Thank you all for your replies.

So does this indicate that when we come to the end of our life in this body, we will all leave this body at different levels of happiness but never trully happy unless we are enlightened? Imrovments to our life situation can only increase our level of happiness? The majority of us are wondering about throughout our existance in a delusional state?

It appears from what I have learnt so far that the false self (ego) is basically to blame for all the upset, destruction & confllict in the world? If this is true & we can learn to manage the ego then surely all other self help / personal development / life coaching etc etc are pointless? Is it the collective ego which does not allow the general population to see this destructive flaw in the human being?

Again, these are just questions that I have pondered & not statements.

Thanks,

Tony.

 

 

[bflare]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You gotta understand that enlightenment is very serious business. It's not for the average guy looking for self-help. It requires a level of depth and commitment that most people aren't interested in. So don't expect someone like Tony Robbins to talk about it or understand it.

If you want true happiness, you will never find it outside of enlightenment. It's not possible to be happy living in delusion. But you can certainly trick yourself into thinking you're happy, in the same way you can trick yourself into thinking that McDonalds is good food.

I think the answer or opinion I am searching for is to the question Is personal development / self-help a poor substitute for spiritual awakening?

If spiritual development requires us to either reject ourselves as a human being or to reject aspects of what we are but personal development concentrates on improving ourselves as a human being will this not result in inner conflict?

If we try to improve our fitness, lose weight etc with our personal development hat on will this not conflict with letting go of our ego & false self?

When I now think of personal development I feel this uneasy feeling within & find myself asking why should I concentrate on developing myself when the self that I am trying to improve is false?

Thanks,

Tony.

[LaucherJunge]

6 hours ago, bflare said:

Thank you all for your replies.

So does this indicate that when we come to the end of our life in this body, we will all leave this body at different levels of happiness but never trully happy unless we are enlightened? Imrovments to our life situation can only increase our level of happiness? The majority of us are wondering about throughout our existance in a delusional state?

It appears from what I have learnt so far that the false self (ego) is basically to blame for all the upset, destruction & confllict in the world? If this is true & we can learn to manage the ego then surely all other self help / personal development / life coaching etc etc are pointless? Is it the collective ego which does not allow the general population to see this destructive flaw in the human being?

Again, these are just questions that I have pondered & not statements.

Thanks,

Tony.

 

 

If you go for material things you will notice that you will be looking for success for all your life and once you get to that point you will realize that it did not make you happy because you want more.
Animals have their limits if they have a full stomach they are truly happy. Humans on the other hands have no limitations at all if you have an empty stomach you have 1 problem if you finally fill it you suddenly have 100 problems. If you become the king of earth you will look for the stars and if you have our galaxy under control you will look for the entire universe.. 
Our physical reality has its boundries that is why it is not possible to truly satisfy the limitless human nature. You have to seek for the unlimited source of bliss that is inside of you if you really want to be happy.

[bflare]

2 hours ago, LaucherJunge said:

If you go for material things you will notice that you will be looking for success for all your life and once you get to that point you will realize that it did not make you happy because you want more.
Animals have their limits if they have a full stomach they are truly happy. Humans on the other hands have no limitations at all if you have an empty stomach you have 1 problem if you finally fill it you suddenly have 100 problems. If you become the king of earth you will look for the stars and if you have our galaxy under control you will look for the entire universe.. 
Our physical reality has its boundries that is why it is not possible to truly satisfy the limitless human nature. You have to seek for the unlimited source of bliss that is inside of you if you really want to be happy.

Thank you for you reply.

In order for us to be truly we have to let go of materialistic things, such as money, success etc as all of these things are impermanent? Does this mean in essence that absolutely nothing on this earth can bring us happiness? Not even to a level of contentment? If my passion is to build a successful business is this then futile?

I am starting to look at people in the street who appear to be smiling & happy & thinking to myself that they are really sad inside?

I find myself now more confused & unhappy since I stumbled across spirituality. Is this normal? My passion for fitness & self help which kept me going through difficult times seems pointless.

It's as if I now know for certain that I can never ever be truly happy unless I spiritually awake but then I lose the things that are important to me now & that have kept me going & made me a better person than i was before.

 

Thanks,

 

Tony.

[LaucherJunge]

Its not all black and white you know.
Yes it is true that you can not be truly happy the way you can with spirituality. But you can be happy to a limited degree for a short period of time after a new success which is enough for many people. Also there are many different spiritual paths you do not neccesairly have to seek enlightenment. If you get in touch with your higher self on your spiritual journey and discover what your true desires are i think you still can be happy to a certain degree by materialistic means if you always follow your true desires but many people dont think for themselves and made the desires others have for them to their own which makes them unhappy. It might be a very turbulent life path nontheless, at one point you will desire to be successful in a job and a few years later a new desire might come up which makes you quit that job.
You can also choose the way of positive focus/raising your frequency or vibration however you want to call it which also can make you happy to a certain degree and you will still have those drops of frequency from time to time.
What people who seek enlightenment are talking about is a happiness thats is beyond measure its bliss if you reach this state you will see how every other kind of happiness is just an illusion but still i would not say that this is the one true way.
In fact i try to kind of go on a mixture of all of those paths. I try positive focus and seek out for my desires to a high degree and do stupidly long amounts of meditation sometimes to eventually become enlightened.

If you discover the first time that the world you live in is an illusion it sure will make you confused. Keep up your passions if they really are passions which you do for yourself and not for others.

Edited October 24, 2016 by LaucherJunge

[Orange]

On 24/10/2016 at 5:54 AM, Leo Gura said:

 

If you want true happiness, you will never find it outside of enlightenment. It's not possible to be happy living in delusion.

Enlightenment is about letting go of the ego; yet here we are all looking for the wonderful prize that is happiness because this is what the ego wants. 

Edited October 27, 2016 by Orange

[David1]

@bflare You can use external objects to grow your mind. Whether you want to melt a ton of ice with your body, become a billionaire or help out others, you will need willpower, motivation, persistence, resilience etc.

Edited October 27, 2016 by David1

[MaxBlank]

Yes, and yes.

No external reward will ever make you feel COMPLETE. Enjoyment is temporary and only leads to a desire for more.

Imagine you have gained all the world... What is next? Letting it all go...perhaps, but there is a next, to be sure.

It is a condition of being human in the simplest of terms.

Buddha taught about this: Dukkha.

A contemporary definition of Dukkha:

Disturbance, irritation, dejection, worry, despair, fear, dread, anguish, anxiety; vulnerability, injury, inability, inferiority; sickness, aging, decay of body and faculties, senility; pain/pleasure; excitement/boredom; deprivation/excess; desire/frustration, suppression; longing/aimlessness; hope/hopelessness; effort, activity, striving/repression; loss, want, insufficiency/satiety; love/lovelessness, friendlessness; dislike, aversion/attraction; parenthood/childlessness; submission/rebellion; decision/indecisiveness, vacillation, uncertainty.

— Francis Story in Suffering, in Vol. II of The Three Basic Facts of Existence (Kandy: Buddhist Publication Society, 1983)

I don't want to make too little of those success giants. I learned a lot from people like Tony Robbins. If any of that appeals to you, I would suggest throwing yourself into it. Their teachings certainly have their place.

One must understand the futility of desire in order to fully understand the solution as Buddhism teaches it. This is how I understand it, anyway. The very best of this life of mine has been learning about the gifts from within; meeting my own mind, discovering my own path. Worldly standards of success and wealth are basically bullshit to me now.

 

 

[David1]

On 27-10-2016 at 10:54 PM, WarPants said:

Worldly standards of success and wealth are basically bullshit to me now.

Aren't we in danger then of exchanging obsessive materialism with obsessive spiritualism? Shouldn't we try to balance yin and yang, inner and outer? 

[MaxBlank]

3 minutes ago, David1 said:

Aren't we in danger then of exchanging obsessive materialism with obsessive spiritualism? Shouldn't we try to balance yin and yang, inner and outer? 

Sounds good, balance whatever you want.

[David1]

On 23-10-2016 at 4:12 PM, Prabhaker said:

It was a clear-cut choice against the world, against the material, in favor of the spiritual.

A man of totality has nothing to choose. His life is a life of choicelessness. Nothing to choose, nothing to discard; they are two sides of the same coin. If you choose something, you will have to discard something.

Eckart Tolle's net worth for example is 15 million. He's not attached to his wealth, but he's not resisting it either.

 

Edited October 31, 2016 by David1