When a Girl is saying she is not wearing make up for men is it true?

[Rilles]

1 minute ago, wwhy said:

Are you saying animals like dogs and sheep do not act out feminine or masculine behavior depending on their gender?

Its actually really hard for us as humans to tell a female animal from a male on unless they are different colors because they dont have as many differentiating attributes. Unless you can see a cats balls its pretty obvious both sexes behave in the same manner, now dont get me wrong, they do have different behaviours when it comes to mating and females nurturing kittens etc, but in general they act 95% the same. Its not like one cat is wearing jeans and going to the gym and one is putting on makeup, thats a human thing WE invented.

If youre a cat expert you can probably tell something but its really subtle then. 

[Peter Miklis]

Yes. Next question.

[Preety_India]

Men start wearing makeup. 

It's not too late.

 

[wwhy]

3 minutes ago, Rilles said:

Its actually really hard for us as humans to tell a female animal from a male on unless they are different colors because they dont have as many differentiating attributes. Unless you can see a cats balls its pretty obvious both sexes behave in the same manner, now dont get me wrong, they do have different behaviours when it comes to mating and females nurturing kittens etc, but in general they act 95% the same. Its not like one cat is wearing jeans and going to the gym and one is putting on makeup, thats a human thing WE invented.

If youre a cat expert you can probably tell something but its really subtle then. 

You've obviously never been around pets or watched animal documentaries. I am not here to educate you, do your own research.

[Rilles]

4 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Men start wearing makeup. 

It's not too late.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/11462870/male-tribe-members-hope-to-attract-a-wife/amp/

Start?

[Preety_India]

@Rilles you don't need to go looking that far. 

 

Go easy. 

 

[Rilles]

1 minute ago, Preety_India said:

@Rilles you don't need to go looking that far. 

 

Go easy. 

 

Honestly, those tribes look way cooler.

[Preety_India]

Just now, Rilles said:

Honestly, those tribes look way cooler.

Just like you. 

 

[Rilles]

6 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Just like you. 

 

[Rilles]

33 minutes ago, wwhy said:

You've obviously never been around pets or watched animal documentaries. I am not here to educate you, do your own research.

I havent claimed to be an animal expert, you brought up the animals lol, I prefer to study human behaviour since I am one. 

[wwhy]

1 hour ago, Rilles said:

I havent claimed to be an animal expert, you brought up the animals lol, I prefer to study human behaviour since I am one. 

Who said anything about being an expert? Am talking about common sense here. It's painfully obvious to anyone here who has ever raised a pet, farm animals or even watched a few wildlife documentaries that you do not need to look at an animals genitals to know its gender. For your own sake, I hope you are just trolling..

Edited April 11, 2021 by wwhy

[Rilles]

8 minutes ago, wwhy said:

Who said anything about being an expert? Am talking about common sense here. It's painfully obvious to anyone here who has ever raised a pet, farm animals or even watched a few wildlife documentaries that you do not need to look at an animals genitals to know its gender. I hope you are just trolling..

Sometimes it is, sometimes its not. A bull is clearly a male because you can tell by the horns, but a cat you literally have to lift its tail to see, im not joking.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wikihow.com/Determine-the-Sex-of-a-Cat%3famp=1

Its not as simple as you say, what about a fly? Can you see a fly and instantly tell its sex, of course not, that would be silly. 

To be honest, this debate has pivoted in a pointless direction talking about animals which doesnt interest me, this debate doesnt seem good faith, I lost interest in it 2 hours ago, so Im out. If social construction triggers you then this conversation will go nowhere, there is tons for you to read about that, I didnt make it up, you go read.

Edited April 11, 2021 by Rilles

[wwhy]

3 minutes ago, Rilles said:

Its not as simple as you say, what about a fly? Can you see a fly and instantly tell its sex, of course not, that would be silly. 

If you raised a fly as a pet, farm animal or even just watched a few documentaries about flies, you would know just by looking at one. It's not rocket science. If a fly with its tiny brain can tell, why can't you?

[wwhy]

And just FYI, a fly is an insect, not an animal.

[Epikur]

@wwhy 

1 hour ago, wwhy said:

And just FYI, a fly is an insect, not an animal.

wrong

[Emerald]

On 4/9/2021 at 7:39 PM, wwhy said:

There are many people driving BMWs and eating 4 meals a day who behave like crocodiles.

@wwhy

Fun trivial fact about crocodilians: Alligators (and maybe crocodiles, though I'm not sure) eat very little. The amount they eat is equivalent to if a human being ate one sandwich a week.

 

[Emerald]

@Rilles @wwhy You guys are arguing over nature vs nurture. But you seem to have no firsthand experience with the desire for feminine beautification. So, you have no empirical grounding to argue from.

What I can say is that, regardless of where that drive comes from, it feels good to feel beautiful. And at a certain point, you have to just let yourself do what feels good to you, regardless of whether it comes from nature or nurture. 

Women's tendencies are scrutinized far more than men's tendencies. And they are seen as stemming from negative conditioning far more than men's tendencies are. This is why everyone freaks out when little girls like playing with dolls or like the color pink far more than people freak out when little boys like playing with cars and action figures.

And while I agree it's not a good thing to limit children's enjoyment of any toy regardless of the target market gender... it's also not a good thing to convince little girls that they don't really like what they actually like and that it's all a matter of patriarchal conditioning. 

The underlying issue here is that we see boys/men's preferences as superior to girls/women's preferences, so we try to correct the feminine preferences by seeing it as conditioned in to keep girls disempowered. And the idea that a truly empowered girl will like the same things as boys will like. But this means that we see feminine preferences as inherently inferior, conditioned in, and disempowering while seeing masculine preferences as inherently superior, natural, and empowering. 

No one really bats an eye when a man wants to be a body builder. We don't go thinking about how he's following social norms or how he's being influenced by the female gaze. We just go, "Oh, that's a masculine preference. No big deal." We see it as something that adds to his power.

But when a woman wears beautiful clothing and make-up, the detectives come out and in every way that women diverge from masculine preferences and ask, "Hmm... why would women want to look beautiful?" "It must be the pressure of the male gaze." "It must be because of pressure from the workplace." "It must be because they're trying to attract men." etc.

But the subjective reality is for women who enjoy fashion and make-up, is that it's fun and it feels good to feel pretty. Subjectively, it feels very empowering to feel stunning. 

And while there can be a ton of different natural drives or social influences that influence that "fun/feel good/empowering" feeling, women are not usually consciously thinking of that. It just feels good.

And women who do consciously think of all the underlying reasons why they like make-up and fashion, can develop a resistance to a form of self-expression that they really enjoy. They can become bitter about something that would otherwise bring them joy.

But ultimately, if you've never experienced the feminine drive toward beautification, then you're just theorizing because you don't understand it. 

Edited April 12, 2021 by Emerald

[wwhy]

4 hours ago, Emerald said:

@wwhy

Fun trivial fact about crocodilians: Alligators (and maybe crocodiles, though I'm not sure) eat very little. The amount they eat is equivalent to if a human being ate one sandwich a week.

 

Yeah, that was unfair to crocodiles. I could say pigs but we eat them too. Maybe the only way to have put it was

"There are many people driving BMWs and eating 4 meals a day who behave like people"

Edited April 12, 2021 by wwhy

[wwhy]

5 hours ago, Emerald said:

But ultimately, if you've never experienced the feminine drive toward beautification, then you're just theorizing because you don't understand it. 

The female experience is still a part of the human experience, and since we are all human...

No. Its not just theorizing. Or to put it another way.. I'm not like a robot when it comes to relating to other peoples experiences, including those of the opposite gender.

Edited April 12, 2021 by wwhy