What is insanity?

[Someone here]

Note :  I'm hoping for a nuanced discussion. Don't keep your opinions for yourself if you think they are controversial. I like controversy. 

So there might be no pure way to define sanity or insanity along a scientific and objective perspective with a philosophic and logical rigor?

But I digress.. I feel as though a definition can be as good as we can come up with one for a specific phenomenon or state.

Let's consider this.. The Spectrum of Sanity.. 

I am unsure exactly what might clinically or legally define sanity.. but from a layperson's whimsical musings I feel as though sanity is the state of collaboration between the conscience and consciousness work together to form a solid basis for reasonable interaction with the known world as best perceived to be real (even if moments or episodes of surreal distortion or delusion interfere with the perceptibly of a truer and objectively reality through one's perceptions).

Sanity is the most lucid and objective outlook and introspective look at one's conscious state upon the world and the actual reality that exists beyond any and all illusions discernible to that individual.

If an individual is less able to discern a truer objective glimpse of reality from their highly influenced and more subjective glances and interpretations of reality... then they might be defined as less than sane. So.. sanity is definitively a spectrum of conscious awareness of a truer reality than that of distortion and influence of the subjective experience.

Complete Sanity/Insanity

No one individual can necessarily become truly and absolutely fully objectively sane nor insane because to do so would need to either completely abscond from experience any normal sensory function.. cognitive function.. and the like whatsoever while also maintaining a true conscious trying to make sense of their distorted reality.

That means sanity and insanity are relative notions. And no one person is fully sane or insane. 

What do you think? 

Edited April 7, 2021 by Someone here

[Rilles]

Such an interesting topic, Leo should do a video on this, Im not looking to add anything to the conversation but I want to see where this goes. 

[SQAAD]

I have personal experience with insanity.

In my opinion it is When you believe very much things which are not true and being separated from God/Reality. It is when you give too much Authority to whatever the mind throws at you.

Keep in mind that there is a low-grade form of insanity everywhere in our society.

It is insane that we have homeless people. It is insane that people decapitate other people. It is insane how we treat other animals. It is insane how most of us live our lives.

When we look at the dark ages we consider most of those people as quite insane people. When people look at the 21st century 300 years from (if humanity will still be here because we might even kill ourselves by that time) now they will consider us insane also.

 

Edited April 7, 2021 by SQAAD

[traveler]

Insanity and sanity are both in the story of the "me" in an objective world. Insanity can only be in comparison with an idea of sanity. The nature of reality is non-dual, so the discussion will only make sense within the framework of dreamt duality. You could describe dreamt duality as Insanity and the nature of non-dual reality as Sanity. But that would still be in dreamt duality, where there is an idea of a non-dual reality. 

Edited April 7, 2021 by traveler

[Someone here]

28 minutes ago, SQAAD said:

I have personal experience with insanity.

In my opinion it is When you believe very much things which are not true and being separated from God/Reality. It is when you give too much Authority to whatever the mind throws at you.

Keep in mind that there is a low-grade form of insanity everywhere in our society.

It is insane that we have homeless people. It is insane that people decapitate other people. It is insane how we treat other animals. It is insane how most of us live our lives.

When we look at the dark ages we consider most of those people as quite insane people. When people look at the 21st century 300 years from (if humanity will still be here because we might even kill ourselves by that time) now they will consider us insane also.

 

 

I guess if your actions don’t meet the societal normal.. you’re insane. So it’s probably just semantics.

basically society is kind of hypocrite while defining what is crazyness because we do a lot of crazy shit on a daily basis.. but if enough people do that shit it becomes the new "normal".

 

[Someone here]

28 minutes ago, traveler said:

Insanity and sanity are both in the story of the "me" in an objective world. Insanity can only be in comparison with an idea of sanity. The nature of reality is non-dual, so the discussion will only make sense within the framework of dreamt duality. You could describe dreamt duality as Insanity and the nature of non-dual reality as Sanity. But that would still be in dreamt duality, where there is an idea of a non-dual reality. 

That's a nice link with nonduality.

I should add that You should be aware that there is no longer such a thing as "clinical insanity". Doctors and scientists gave up trying define sanity a long time ago.

The only remaining accepted definition of sanity is the legal one.. which amounts to being able to understand the consequences of one's actions and the difference between right and wrong. And while psychiatrists might provide evidence that someone has a mental disorder.. it's up to the judge and jury to decide if someone is "sane" 

[CBDinfused]

This is a topic covered well by Foucault in his book "Madness and Civilization"

In a nutshell, people who were "mad" in pre-industrial societies used to be considered sources of wisdom, but now madness is defined by those who cannot actively contribute to the capitalist economy. 

Just think about it, what is really wrong with something like ADHD? Just because you can't focus on school work or your job you are labelled as "Not normal". In the extremer cases, schizophrenia, bipolarism etc where you are navigating cycles of love/clarity and darkness/fear how can you possibly be a productive member of society? = LOCK THEM UP AND GIVE THEM PILLS!

Edited April 7, 2021 by CBDinfused

[Mason Riggle]

[GreenLight]

I remember Shunyamurti said that Paranoia translates as "out of your mind".

I had recently seen this paranoia in other people after a Police event at one of my relatives. Her close friends in which are ordinary people started to think she has security cameras in her house or the police is spying by listening to their phone etc. I couldn't believe that most people had this mind pattern within them. Seeing also what authorities and people doing is maddening. I also experienced for a split second that my emails where read by the CIA one time. That was most terrifying experience i had and it definitely felt like I was "out of my mind". I cannot image how other people are living with these persecutory thoughts daily.

Probably can agree that we cannot be fully sane or insane while we are alive.

But what happens if a soul leaves the body and it remains as a alive empty  shell. https://blavatskytheosophy.com/loss-of-the-soul-and-annihilation/

Just the thought that this could be possille makes  me dreadful.

 

 

 

[Inliytened1]

@Someone here it can feel like your going insane when you have no certainty about anything.  When you lose your ground so to speak.  When you can't be sure about anything.   This is the underlying cause for OCD.   This can cause you to doubt everything. This is very unpleasant for the ego and can trigger anxiety because the ego needs reality to have a ground - and wants to believe it has everything figured out.  But when you can't tell the difference between what's real/true or not real/true anymore it can cause you to lose your grip on reality.

You can also feel like your going insane when everything you thought was true is recontextualized and revealed as something else entirely.  Especially if its big enough where your whole identity is tied to it.  Such as being a scientist your whole life and then realizing there is no objective reality... best example i can give on that though is when during a state of what you can call God Consciousness i became conscious that all of reality was never separate from me, that all others are me, and that as God i was imagining it all.  This shatters and radically recontextualizes everything and can definitely make the ego feel like its going insane because its sense of identity is wrapped up in the sense of self vs others.

[Tim R]

Insanity is nothing but deviation from consensus about the way "objective reality" is. 

 

If someone says "the earth is flat" he goes against that consensus. Crazy!

If someone says "I can talk to dead people" he deviates from that consensus. Nuthead...

If someone says "I'm God and so are you" he acts subversively towards "objective reality". Crucify him!

etc...

All these statements have the same overarching theme: "there is no objective reality"

And this goes against absolutely everything, so society responds "well, we can't let that happen... this is threatening the survival of every idea and identity of each and everyone who plays our game. What are we to do with such people? Ostracize them! Ridicule them! Put 'em away in the booby hatch!"

What was once called "heresy" is now called "irremediable schizophrenic psychosis". 

And of course there's another kind of "crazy".. you know... feather in your hat and a couple of tattoos, "I'm so crazy!"? because slight deviation from the majority makes you "special". 

But let's not become too special! We mustn't cross that fine line between "crazy but ok" and "he broke a tabu, he said he is God".

It's one thing to do "crazy" sh*t on the weekend and tell your friends the next day, it's another thing to discover that your God and tell your co-workers about it the next day.

So crazy is a relative term as well. And It's a spectrum. When someone on this forum exclaims that he/she found out about God, we say "hurray, welcome home, dear❤". 

And when Leo shares some "epistemic madness" video on his blog, it's us who say "oh good lord, these people are nuts!"

So "crazy" is simply judgement, aka ego defense.  

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, CBDinfused said:

This is a topic covered well by Foucault in his book "Madness and Civilization"

In a nutshell, people who were "mad" in pre-industrial societies used to be considered sources of wisdom, but now madness is defined by those who cannot actively contribute to the capitalist economy. 

Just think about it, what is really wrong with something like ADHD? Just because you can't focus on school work or your job you are labelled as "Not normal". In the extremer cases, schizophrenia, bipolarism etc where you are navigating cycles of love/clarity and darkness/fear how can you possibly be a productive member of society? = LOCK THEM UP AND GIVE THEM PILLS!

 

17 minutes ago, Tim R said:

Insanity is nothing but deviation from consensus about the way "objective reality" is. 

 

If someone says "the earth is flat" he goes against that consensus. Crazy!

If someone says "I can talk to dead people" he deviates from that consensus. Nuthead...

If someone says "I'm God and so are you" he acts subversively towards "objective reality". Crucify him!

etc...

All these statements have the same overarching theme: "there is no objective reality"

And this goes against absolutely everything, so society responds "well, we can't let that happen... this is threatening the survival of every idea and identity of each and everyone who plays our game. What are we to do with such people? Ostracize them! Ridicule them! Put 'em away in the booby hatch!"

What was once called "heresy" is now called "irremediable schizophrenic psychosis". 

And of course there's another kind of "crazy".. you know... feather in your hat and a couple of tattoos, "I'm so crazy!"? because slight deviation from the majority makes you "special". 

But let's not become too special! We mustn't cross that fine line between "crazy but ok" and "he broke a tabu, he said he is God".

It's one thing to do "crazy" sh*t on the weekend and tell your friends the next day, it's another thing to discover that your God and tell your co-workers about it the next day.

So crazy is a relative term as well. And It's a spectrum. When someone on this forum exclaims that he/she found out about God, we say "hurray, welcome home, dear❤". 

And when Leo shares some "epistemic madness" video on his blog, it's us who say "oh good lord, these people are nuts!"

So "crazy" is simply judgement, aka ego defense.  

So basically.. What is "sane" is the outcome of ongoing cultural negotiation.. as is the definition and meaning of all things that are linguistic in nature .Nevertheless you occupy a particular moment in cultural space/time right now. 

[Nahm]

Sanity is well being. 

[allislove]

1 hour ago, Mason Riggle said:

Self profile pic promotion  

[Tim R]

10 minutes ago, Someone here said:

What is "sane" is the outcome of ongoing cultural negotiation.. as is the definition and meaning of all things that are linguistic in nature

@Someone here Very nicely put. 

 

3 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Sanity is well being. 

@Nahm So in your definition, "sanity" isn't limited to the domain of mind? Because I can have bodily ailments and am not well then. So are you leaning towards something like "harmony"? 

Ohhh or is more something like this: well-being aka sanity comes from / is realizing the truth/what is

Because then it wouldn't really matter what is going on with body or mind, because sanity = truth, no matter what it turns out to be

Something like that? 

[Someone here]

12 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Sanity is well being. 

Nice.. And what is well being? And does it differ from individual to another? What if murdering people was part of my personal well being?  What's the fault of some people to be (for example) born to abusive parents such that they grow up with inferiority complex and such things becomes integral to their well being.  It's not so simple. 

[saif2]

@Someone here I have an experience with insanity, I was diagnosed with a mental disorder quite recently, in my experience the border between sanity and insanity is crossed when I lose the ability to discern what is valuable and relevant to me, and I think this relates to conscience. 

 

[Tim R]

@Someone here I just wanted to let you know that I appreciate you always asking all sorts of questions on the forum Really keeps things alive and thriving in here

[Insane butterfly]

I have the feeling that Sanity and Insanity are the same things. 

I mean if i could think of my self completely sane i would go crazy, completely insane

[Rilles]

How do you know you are sane right now?