Stage Orange self assessment

[Zigzag Idiot]

Does anyone see that many stage Orange individuals who accurately self assess themselves?  

The Spiral Dynamics model seems to be written off by many in Orange when they see the liberal stage Green as being higher on the spiral.

[Matt23]

I think I've seen maybe a tendency for many people on this forum to assess themselves as Yellow, but who I think are probably orange.  I say this because I just see (I think... maybe I'm foolin myself) posts the ask things like "how was your transition from Green to Yellow", and I assume there have been many responses (and I think i've seen several responses), and I just doubt that they are yellow since...

• I doubt that many stage yellow people would be spending their time on a forum like this and would probably have better things to do, and that even posting "I'm Yellow" isn't something a yellow person would do or spend time on.
• I think stage yellow people are rare compared to how many responses to being "yellow" I've seen on here. 
• I 've heard that stage orange people can have a tendency to see themselves as yellow but actually aren't. 

[Zigzag Idiot]

@Matt23  I agree.
Stage Orange materialists would want to place themselves in a seemingly higher prestige category.

1 hour ago, Matt23 said:

I doubt that many stage yellow people would be spending their time on a forum like this and would probably have better things to do,

What do you think they might be doing?

[EddieEddie1995]

@Zigzag Idiot They are saving the world  from extinction ? 

[Bodhitree]

4 minutes ago, EddieEddie1995 said:

@Zigzag Idiot They are saving the world  from extinction ? 

Well... humankind will save the planet or it won’t. The worst case is that in 150 years from now the world is largely a hot, polluted desert, the forests are gone and humankind is eking out a living while much of the overpopulated world lives in hunger and thirst and there are a lot of failed nations. Scorpions and tarantulas inherit the deserts. And it will continue like that forever.

Extinction is unlikely. We are in a human-driven extinction event where biodiversity and wild habitats are declining rapidly, while capitalism seeks to maximise the amount of earths resources that we use. This places strain on the topsoil and the oceans and the ability of nature to regenerate itself, but what will happen is that wild nature will conform to the edges of the man-made structures. They may be small edges, but wild nature will survive. 
 

Controlled nature will continue on in large mono cultures sustained by man’s technology. Think of the huge numbers of chickens and cows in breeding farms, who get regular shots of antibiotics to encourage their growth. That also safeguards the monoculture against disease, and that is the potential killer. 

[Boethius]

44 minutes ago, EddieEddie1995 said:

@Zigzag Idiot They are saving the world  from extinction ? 

I think the desire to single-handedly "save" the world (or to think such a thing is even possible) is more indicative of stage Green ego than of stage Yellow functioning. I mean, it's a cliche that people who take up Social Justice activism with reckless abandon end up burning out -- their stage Green idealism lacks the tempering force of stage Blue discipline, which people tend to recover as they move into the more holistic functioning of stage Yellow.

[Zigzag Idiot]

@Boethius I like your assessments.

[LastThursday]

I would have thought that Stage Orangists would have happily assessed themselves in the name of efficiency and progress. There would naturally be an impatience to be ahead of everyone else, and so would want to identify with higher stages especially Yellow. It's Stage Orange Dunning-Kruger effect. I guess in that sense Stage Orange wouldn't want to self assess, the reality of any result would pop their bubble.

 

[Forestluv]

Spiral Dynamics is closely related to identity. When people interpret it as a hierarchal structure, they will often dismiss the framework or mis-access their development (as being higher). This isn't unique to Orange. If you asked someone centered in Blue if they are rational and base their beliefs on evidence (Orange), they will say "yes".

What would happen if we flipped the structure of SD such that we placed Orange higher than Green or Yellow. We could say that Green is lower because it's emotional and doesn't value facts and evidence. We could say Yellow is lower because Yellow gets lost in big picture thinking isn't grounded in an objective reality. Here, Orange would have "permission" to say "Yes, I'm at Orange - more evolved than Green and Yellow". 

This dynamic is seen in all sorts of developmental areas. Yet I would say SD mis-assessment is much more common than for self assessment in things like learning math or a foreign language. Most intermediate level students learning Spanish will generally assess themself at an intermediate level. 

[Matt23]

2 hours ago, LastThursday said:

I guess in that sense Stage Orange wouldn't want to self assess, the reality of any result would pop their bubble.

I could see logically that makes sense, but I don't think that's how it's working reality.  I think it's more like they want to assess, but they want to manipulate the assessment to pump up their egos.  Most likely.

1 hour ago, Forestluv said:

If you asked someone centered in Blue if they are rational and base their beliefs on evidence (Orange), they will say "yes".

This is a problem I can't seem to rationalize with these various personal self-assessments: how can scientists etc. trust these so much? (unless they really aren't doing science and just doing pop-psychology).  It just seems too obvious that a person, with even a tiny bit of knowledge of the theory that relates to the subject they're self-assessing on (even with no knowledge of it), would be able to know exactly which answers to give to make themselves be seen in the light they want to be seen as.  Like self-assessments seem so unreliable to me.  Unless you coded the assessment with such complexity and worded it so cleverly.  It's like the only thing they are reliable for is seeing what people want to be seen as rather than what they actually are (even subconsciously, like, if a person was being as honest as possible, I think it can be really hard to objectively see oneself clearly and objectively).  I dunno.  

What do you think?

Edited April 7, 2021 by Matt23

[blackchair]

 my sister said to me that I have no ego, I still don't trust her

Edited April 8, 2021 by blackchair

[EddieEddie1995]

22 hours ago, Boethius said:

I think the desire to single-handedly "save" the world (or to think such a thing is even possible) is more indicative of stage Green ego than of stage Yellow functioning. I mean, it's a cliche that people who take up Social Justice activism with reckless abandon end up burning out -- their stage Green idealism lacks the tempering force of stage Blue discipline, which people tend to recover as they move into the more holistic functioning of stage Yellow.

@Boethius I was kinda sarcastic. This was me few mouths ago hehe 

"Trying to save the world" 

Green: emotional reaction, and the need to save themselves 

Yellow: authentic desire to create and change systems knowing that everything is how it must be 

 

 

[EddieEddie1995]

@Bodhitree

You made me sad and agry... this is clearly bullshit! 

We are doing everything we can... major catastrophe is necessary so we could learn our lesson. 

But who cares what will happen in 150 years anyways.

I only live for the NOW 

 

 

[SamC]

On 2021-04-07 at 8:09 AM, Matt23 said:

I think I've seen maybe a tendency for many people on this forum to assess themselves as Yellow, but who I think are probably orange.  I say this because I just see (I think... maybe I'm foolin myself) posts the ask things like "how was your transition from Green to Yellow", and I assume there have been many responses (and I think i've seen several responses), and I just doubt that they are yellow since...

• I doubt that many stage yellow people would be spending their time on a forum like this and would probably have better things to do, and that even posting "I'm Yellow" isn't something a yellow person would do or spend time on.
• I think stage yellow people are rare compared to how many responses to being "yellow" I've seen on here. 
• I 've heard that stage orange people can have a tendency to see themselves as yellow but actually aren't. 

@Matt23 Where would you place yourself on the modell. I am genuinly curious.

[Matt23]

@SamC mmmm... I dunno.  In terms of Cook-Greuter's 9 stages model, probably somewhere around Conformist - Expert, mayyybe (big maybe) slightly moving into the stage above Expert (adventurer?.. no... I forget the name).  

In terms of SD, maybe a center of gravity around high-Blue, low Orange..

Though, these might be generous, as I do struggle mightily with emotional issues and anger issues etc., eating addictions etc.  Like, in terms of the SD model, I probably have some lines of development that still haven't integrated Red well and Blue, and might in some instances still be stuck in those lower more egoic levels.  

I can sometimes notice myself, when in poor emotional wellbeing, almost regress back to the more egoic frame of mind and just focus on survival.  

Lots of time, perhaps most, I'm feeling a struggle to just survive and live pretty miserably.  It's getting better for sure lately and am feeling more and more times where I feel I can just relax and enjoy the moment. 

I think my highest lines of development would be intrapersonal, cognitive, kinesthetic, aesthetic, spiritual/philosophical.  My lowest are probably interpersonal, emotional, sexual, logical/mathematic/linguistic.  

Edited April 9, 2021 by Matt23