Sober enlightenment experience - advice needed!

[Naked Paradox]

Hi everyone, 

 

I’m a regular observer of the actualized forum, but I’ve never really posted before. I’ve been on the self-development path since 2016 and have been following Leo’s teachings since pretty much the beginning.

 

I’ll cut to the chase. I’ve had a number of very profound psychedelic experiences in the last few years. These experiences have been the primary driving force in choosing to take enlightenment work seriously - it was becoming clearer and clearer to me that life was a dream that I was beginning to awaken from.

 

Something that’s always bothered me is the fact that my sober spiritual realisations have been practically non-existent. Until recently, I could only count 2 experiences that I felt had any real significance - these were incredibly fleeting and were certainly nothing that could be compared to a full blown psychedelic trip.

 

However, last week I woke up to my morning alarm and sat up in bed to do my breath-work and meditation. Just as I was getting ready to start breathing, I had a significant breakthrough experience that probably lasted 3 seconds tops. 

 

Like a bubble bursting (to quote Peter Ralston) my sense of self seemingly evaporated and my consciousness was filling the entire room. My visual field was the same as normal, but somehow different - it was like gazing into a sea of snaking fractals. This feeling was familiar, I’d achieved this state of consciousness a number of times through psychedelic use, but this was the first time I’d ever managed to access it whilst in a sober state. In that moment, I was everything - I recognised myself as god somehow creating reality through my experience.

 

It made me think back to Leo’s video on self-enquiry when he talked about when the moment of enlightenment comes, it would be like a snap of the fingers - it certainly was as instantaneous as that, but there was more to it. I felt like in the moments before it happened I managed to make some kind of mental calculation that resulted in the break through. It was comparable to having to turn your head a certain way to be able to comprehend an optical illusion.

 

I’m certain that the experience was aided by the fact that I’d only woken up a few moments before and that I was in a very relaxed state, but this was real. It wasn’t a waking dream, it was tangible and it really happened to me. Unfortunately, my ‘eureka’ moment slipped through my fingers as quickly as it had occurred.

 

So this is where I need advice from anyone that feels they can answer my question - can I take this as a serious indication that I’m moving closer to waking up or are these just baby steps that I shouldn’t get too excited about? I understand that this work will go on for the rest of my life and that this is probably just a glimpse of the ‘ox’s tail’ but I’m already 38 years old and I would count myself as being pretty late to the game. I meditate several times a day and sometimes feel that I’m pouring too much time into enlightenment work - with little payoff. This has been a bit demoralising at times, but those few seconds of enlightenment were frankly spellbinding. 

 

Love to you all,

 

Alex

[allislove]

Hi Alex,

Surely it's a "good" sign.

My only suggestion is to continue your meditation practices, putting how you feel during the day first & your opinion about anything on the second place... then you will see such "glimpses" more often... then the "glimpse" is going to be unavoidable through the daily living at some point... 

Godspeed.

[Flyboy]

Leo's video on patience is pretty applicable here.  You are definitely going to experience exponential results with meditation work.  While that will be super exciting one day, it also means that for the first X period of time it's going to be very boring and really require commitment.  Looking at folks who have done the basic work seriously, 5 years seems doable with hard work... but that means you probably won't see much for the first 3 of those.

The challenge of course is distinguishing "no" progress from "slow" progress.  Sometimes you may not be able to.  But I am personally trying to counteract this potential for "being stuck and not knowing it" by reading up on the paths, the maps, and all of the various techniques that whittle away at the illusion.  Keep bringing new tools to bear and taking a holistic multi-faceted approach.  If Vipassana isn't going anywhere, try concentration work, or vice versa.  Keep redirecting when you get stuck and the different approaches will reinforce each other over time.  When you have your legs under you, do some serious 10 day retreats where you go balls to the wall and try to hit stream entry by the end.

After stream entry, I think we will start to see the much faster pace of results and deeper levels of meditation that make the whole thing start to feel like it isn't a waste of time!  My perception at my current level of knowledge is that self-inquiry is like digging from the opposite end of the "self"--I think it is necessary at some point to get all the way there, but without the huge headstart that Vipassana gives you, I think it is likely to be a frustrating path.  I'd save self-inquiry for later (like when you can hit the formless Jhanas and THEN do self-inquiry, as that should prove very effective).

EDIT: I should note that I'm talking about achieving a permanent Arahat-level of enlightenment, not getting "glimpses."  As helpful as glimpses are (and even psychedelic trips), I personally want to achieve a state that is locked in.  The goal of eliminating dualistic suffering and realizing a sort of unconditional happiness doesn't seem to be possible any other way.

Edited April 6, 2021 by Flyboy

[mandyjw]

Alex, 

In my opinion that this book will really help with some of the misunderstandings that cause the "search" tension kinda thing that sort of has its way of pushing away exactly what we seek. The funny, ironic "reason" this sense is so heightened in the search for enlightenment and what we really are, is because we already so intimately are it. https://www.amazon.com/Transparency-Things-Contemplating-Nature-Experience/dp/1626258805/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=rupert+spira&qid=1617745439&sr=8-4 It's amazing. 

Also looking into Abraham Hicks and feeling into the law of attraction can bring some major revelations about how what we seek is now, without also denying what we want and how to fully enjoy the whole process. Cause really that's what you came for. 

Edited April 6, 2021 by mandyjw

[Leo Gura]

@Naked Paradox There is no satisfying answer to your question. Just carry on with the work and try to enjoy the process.

Perhaps stop thinking of this work or awakening as some end-point you reach.

[DIDego]

 

 

All post in this topic are great and this is my way to say it otherwise at my "level" of understanding about this today and it will probably change 

 

For example, my color vision changes during different activities when NOT SEEK for it happen, now when typing here , color change in the area of text i read from white background gets into tone of turquoise(color of the star), for first time now ever i got this color, got amazed a short while, color gone, back again, start write and get some hesitate if im bullshitting my self and loose my credibility in front of Leo and others, the color gone a while again, let go of that and now writing with a nice color of turquoise. Ahaa insight now, i like see these colors and see them change, have to consider the bright white background and remove all Dark-mode in all apps .

 

i was stunned of these kind of moments long time then they started in various situations and when try to seek for it and think it is gone. 

Logic says, you been looking at the sun, the eye vision are distorted.

Or Its the curtains that makes the walls pink, oops the window got no curtains in an another site and it happens again.

When different events occurs, repeats in various ways and after tons of logic creative explanations and it starts happens together sitting with a friend, and i see him glow purple and he realizes that im too glow,

And then this happens sober, spontaneous and the logic are useless, so leave the doubt that only distort and start grow to get more balance and harmony. 

For me it was in the beginning very dangerous do self-help and later find a word called spirituality as former drug addict and what all that can involve, was identify that what was my problem and this is maybe not yours @Naked Paradox , it was almost like i start going into a new found addiction, gave me an feeling of searching for next "hit" as in term of addictions.

Identify other addictions aka distractions, learn how to handle addictions overall to be able not to pursue and enjoy the ride!

//

[Nahm]

19 hours ago, Naked Paradox said:

Something that’s always bothered me is the fact that my sober spiritual realisations have been practically non-existent. Until recently, I could only count 2 experiences that I felt had any real significance - these were incredibly fleeting and were certainly nothing that could be compared to a full blown psychedelic trip.

The belief is the comparison between psychedelic and sober experiences. The content of the thought is that there are these two ‘states’, and you’re ‘the one comparing them’. There aren’t these two, there is just the believing of the comparative thinking or thought, that there are these two, and identifying as ‘the one who knows’ this. 
 

The more ‘core’ belief is that experience is plural. That there are ‘experiences’. Sincerely look for the separation of these ‘two experiences’ until it is recognized there isn’t. Further, there is no past psychedelic experience at all. In direct experience, there is the thought that there is. 
 

Rather than believing the thought and chasing the state, recognize it’s a thought, like ‘state’. 

Quote

However, last week I woke up to my morning alarm and sat up in bed to do my breath-work and meditation. Just as I was getting ready to start breathing, I had a significant breakthrough experience that probably lasted 3 seconds tops. 
 

Nice. Focus on breath is not focus on the thoughts believed, and actuality is unveiled. 

Quote

 

Like a bubble bursting (to quote Peter Ralston) my sense of self seemingly evaporated and my consciousness was filling the entire room. My visual field was the same as normal, but somehow different - it was like gazing into a sea of snaking fractals. This feeling was familiar, I’d achieved this state of consciousness a number of times through psychedelic use, but this was the first time I’d ever managed to access it whilst in a sober state. In that moment, I was everything - I recognised myself as god somehow creating reality through my experience.

That is only and always the case. The veil is the believing of the narrative about psychedelics, sober, states, etc. An identification lies between, ‘the one who knows’ these ‘states’, the ‘one who achieves’ them, ‘the one who accesses’. 

A ‘sea of snaking fractals’ is perception not feeling. 

Quote

 

It made me think back to Leo’s video on self-enquiry when he talked about when the moment of enlightenment comes, it would be like a snap of the fingers - it certainly was as instantaneous as that, but there was more to it. I felt like in the moments before it happened I managed to make some kind of mental calculation that resulted in the break through. It was comparable to having to turn your head a certain way to be able to comprehend an optical illusion.

The ‘one who managed to’. 

Quote

 

I’m certain that the experience was aided by the fact that I’d only woken up a few moments before and that I was in a very relaxed state, but this was real. It wasn’t a waking dream, it was tangible and it really happened to me. Unfortunately, my ‘eureka’ moment slipped through my fingers as quickly as it had occurred.

It didn’t slip away, it was covered in thoughts of identity. The ‘one who is certain’, the ‘one who knows states’, the ‘one who the state happened to’, the ‘one who’s eureka moment it was’. 

Quote

 

So this is where I need advice from anyone that feels they can answer my question - can I take this as a serious indication that I’m moving closer to waking up or are these just baby steps that I shouldn’t get too excited about?

The ‘one who is getting closer’, the ‘one who knows serious and not serious indications’, the ‘one who could wake up’.

Quote

I understand that this work will go on for the rest of my life and that this is probably just a glimpse of the ‘ox’s tail’ but I’m already 38 years old and I would count myself as being pretty late to the game. I meditate several times a day and sometimes feel that I’m pouring too much time into enlightenment work - with little payoff. This has been a bit demoralising at times, but those few seconds of enlightenment were frankly spellbinding. 

The one who understands, the one who’s doing work, the one to whom life is a possession, the one who is 38 years old, the one who counts a myself, the one who meditates, the one expecting a pay off, the one who is demoralized, the one who knows time. 
 

So many beliefs and self referential thoughts, such little inspection. 

[Naked Paradox]

@Nahm @DIDego @Leo Gura @Flyboy @allislove @mandyjw

Thank you all for your input and kind words of advice. This has certainly given me a great deal to contemplate and work with - particularly ridding myself the idea of that I'm striving towards a specific end goal, as this only disappoints me when breakthroughs don't occur as often as I'm demanding they do.

Thank you Nahm. I appreciate the detailed breakdown, really casting this all in a new light for me!

Love to you all.

Alex

Edited April 7, 2021 by Naked Paradox
Typo

[Nahm]

@Naked Paradox Thanks. Just disrobing the other side of the paradox really. 

[Inliytened1]

@Naked Paradox the very first non-dual experience i had was the same exact scenario (down to the tee)  and was instantaneous as was yours.  It was a state of consciousness so Divine that no words could ever do it justice.  It didn't last long but i was fully conscious that this was a state that was reserved for the Divine.  

No need to do anything different...you're on your way