Do Things Exist Independently Of Me?

[VirusOfTheCult]

On 07/04/2021 at 11:28 PM, Leo Gura said:

Of course. You saw it with your own eyes. You just don't want to believe what you saw.

Of course. Although this truth does not hinge on psychedelics. You could also prove it via meditation or yoga or a dozen other ways.

Mind is all that there is. And Mind is Infinite.

QM is imagined by Mind. QM hinges on Mind, Mind does not hinge on QM.

True. I like that video you did explaining Allah. How you have to constantly remind yourself that you and Allah are not one...otherwise you snap back to illusion/maya

I like that video so I constantly remind myself   "I am not Allah"   then snap back to illusion. Then I remind myself I am not Allah. . Then snap back to illusion....I am not Allah.... on and on... constantly remind myself I am not Allah all the time...

Edited April 9, 2021 by VirusOfTheCult

[VirusOfTheCult]

17 hours ago, SQAAD said:

@Leo Gura

Very interesting. I want to experience other ceasing to exist to be honest. And i have some previous experiences of that nature

I assume when you say that others will cease to exist, you mean a radical recontextualization. I am probably gonna still be able to see the shape of my mother or a bird outside . 

I think they literally cease to exist. I mean literally.. I think there will be a time where you reach a certain level of consciousness where you access a different m dimension where your parents literally cease to exist.. all others too. They vanish. There is a video on youtube talking about it... you simply vanish from this dimension and shift to a different vibration, you literally become all alone, no one to talk to interact. Kabbalah teaches it too I think

Edited April 8, 2021 by VirusOfTheCult

[Leo Gura]

17 minutes ago, VirusOfTheCult said:

so I constantly remind myself   "I am Allah"   then snap back to illusion. Then I remind myself I am Allah. . Then snap back to illusion....I am Allah.... on and on... constantly remind myself I am God all the time...

Yes, that's how it tends to be.

[VirusOfTheCult]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

QM is imagined by Mind. QM hinges on Mind, Mind does not hinge on QM.

 Mind is so intelligent that uses QM to show the illusory ego truth about itself. It does not hinge on QM.

[Phyllis Wagner]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course. You saw it with your own eyes. You just don't want to believe what you saw.

Of course. Although this truth does not hinge on psychedelics. You could also prove it via meditation or yoga or a dozen other ways.

Please tell me if this is right.

On a dose of MDMA I saw a big pillar in the middle of the dancefloor at a club clear as day. When I got nearer I saw it was just smoke and my drugged visual perception just interpreted it as a pillar and filled in the gaps until it got more information. So was there a pillar or not?

As I understand the pillar and the very floor I was standing were made out of the same substance, so in a sense they are the same. But still on a pragmatic level that pillar was de-synchronized from the other minds, so if I pointed at it to show it so someone the person wouldn't validate my experience. Also if I ran into it I would not have been harmed. So there must be a difference on practical level to what we call a hallucination.

Edited April 8, 2021 by Phyllis Wagner

[Leo Gura]

37 minutes ago, Phyllis Wagner said:

Please tell me if this is right.

On a dose of MDMA I saw a big pillar in the middle of the dancefloor at a club clear as day. When I got nearer I saw it was just smoke and my drugged visual perception just interpreted it as a pillar and filled in the gaps until it got more information. So was there a pillar or not?

These sorts of perceptional illusions can even happen in normal sober existence. Sometimes you look at a bush or a window and see something like an animal or a face that later you realized wasn't there.

Quote

As I understand the pillar and the very floor I was standing were made out of the same substance, so in a sense they are the same.

Both are consciousness.

Quote

But still on a pragmatic level that pillar was de-synchronized from the other minds, so if I pointed at it to show it so someone the person wouldn't validate my experience. Also if I ran into it I would not have been harmed. So there must be a difference on practical level to what we call a hallucination.

Yes, you define non-hallucination as something you can't stick your hand through.

But the hand itself is a hallucination on a deeper layer.

There are layers to your hallucinations. Hallucinations within hallucinations.

Have you never woken up from a dream only to later realize you are still stuck in a dream?

One time I woke up from a dream 3 times before I finally returned to this dream we call "life".

[Nemo28]

 Well solipsism is a concept but your true self escapes all concepts thus we can never come to definite conclusion of who is the real "ME". The real "ME" is always a subject, it only sees, is aware and not thinking. Ofc when its starts to think it gets into confusion and this discussion starts. I can not get a satisfying answer to this problem  ever..

[SQAAD]

@VirusOfTheCult

4 hours ago, VirusOfTheCult said:

I think they literally cease to exist. I mean literally.. I think there will be a time where you reach a certain level of consciousness where you access a different m dimension where your parents literally cease to exist.. all others too. They vanish. There is a video on youtube talking about it... you simply vanish from this dimension and shift to a different vibration, you literally become all alone, no one to talk to interact. Kabbalah teaches it too I think

Damn, that sounds cool. I hope one day to experience these kind of radical states of Consciousness.

I always wonder How would i perceive life if i was Ramana Maharshi or some other very harcore mystic who lives in a cave for 40 years. These people's experience of life is so outrageous and so outside the 'normal' states of Consciousness that it's not even funny.

[Leo Gura]

I've certainly been in a state of consciousness where my parents did not exist. Or, rather, they were recognized to be just figments of my own imagination created to backwards rationalize my Eternal existence.

There are states in which the entire Universe will cease to exist, because you cease to imagine it.

[Tim R]

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I've certainly been in a state of consciousness where my parents did not exist. Or, rather, they were recognized to be just figments of my own imagination created to backwards rationalize my Eternal existence.

There are states in which the entire Universe will cease to exist, because you cease to imagine it.

Isn't this just being/non-being dualism? 

Like when I ask "does my kitchen still exist when I'm in my living room?" ; this assumes that the kitchen (and living room) "are" (something) in the first place and that they are not the same thing (one is, the other isn't, depending on" where I am").

So I could very well argue that the kitchen and living room are the same. Both exist, as nothing.

And so in the same way I could say that when I stop "imagining" my parents, they still exist, as nothing, just as they did when I imagined them being with me in the same room. Me sitting in my room is the same as my "not-being" kitchen, only appearing to be somehow different. Which solves the problem of Solipsism in the sense that you're bubble is all there is as "something". True, the bubble is all there is, but as nothing, just like everything else. 

Otherwise you'd be creating a duality where there isn't one. 

Or am I missing something?

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Tim R said:

And so in the same way I could say that when I stop "imagining" my parents, they still exist, as nothing, just as they did when I imagined them being with me in the same room.

There is an epic difference though between your normal interactions with your parents and you being conscious that you imagined them.

The difference is shockingly huge. It's fucking freaky. Most normies would think they've lost their minds if it happened to them.

But I highly recommend it

[Hello from Russia]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There is an epic difference though between your normal interactions with your parents and you being conscious that you imagined them.

The difference is shockingly huge. It's fucking freaky.

@Leo Gura Does it make you less attached/empathetic to them or more?

[Tim R]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There is an epic difference though between your normal interactions with your parents and you being conscious that you imagined them.

Yeah but in both cases they are nothing, so imagining/not-imagining is a dualism which isn't actually real, yes? In other words, when I visit my father, nothing happened. And when I'm not visiting my father, nothing happened. Only me imagining that something ha

Holy fuck. I get it now. Both are just stories. Holy fuck. Oh my god, nothing ever happened. It's just memory and not even that. I'm literally sitting here with my mouth open. It's both nothing. What the hell. What the hell. This whole f*cking thing is nothing. Whoaa. What a great story, whaat..Holy shit but this is liberating.... 

[Tim R]

But hoooow is this illusion?? How is this possible??? Sorry for not being constructive but this is kinda... what the heck man. Do I even want it to be real? Yes and no I guess.. Hang on, the illusion is real? but not really because it's just an illusion, right? I don't get it. Gotta meditate more, nevermind

[Leo Gura]

50 minutes ago, Hello from Russia said:

@Leo Gura Does it make you less attached/empathetic to them or more?

Paradoxically, more detached yet more empathetic.

[Mason Riggle]

2 hours ago, Tim R said:

But hoooow is this illusion?? How is this possible??? Sorry for not being constructive but this is kinda... what the heck man. Do I even want it to be real? Yes and no I guess.. Hang on, the illusion is real? but not really because it's just an illusion, right?

It only matters whether or not 'It' is real if it IS real... but if it's illusion/imaginary.. then it only imaginarily matters (doesn't really matter). 

If you're asleep, and lost in a dream, and you 'realize' (wake up to the reality) that you are just 'lost in a dream' ("oh.. I'm dreaming") then you are no longer lost in the dream.  It is only when you 'wake up' from the dream, that you can 'fully realize' that nothing in the dream 'mattered', including 'the realization that it was a dream'.   

If  'real you' dream that 'dream you' is being attacked by a shark, it doesn't matter to 'real you', because it's just a dream. 'Dreaming about being attacked by a shark' only 'seems to matter' to 'dream you' while you are dreaming. If the shark attack is just a dream, the dream shark attack doesn't 'really matter' to 'dream you'.. and the 'dream shark attack' definitely doesn't matter to 'real you'. 

Who would an 'imaginary reality' 'really matter' to?  

"If this is all just a dream, then it doesn't 'really' matter that it is. it only 'really matters' that it is a dream, if it isn't." 

 

Edited April 8, 2021 by Mason Riggle

[Leo Gura]

Real = Imaginary

Imaginary = Real

All loose ends tie together into a circle.

[Mason Riggle]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

There are states in which the entire Universe will cease to exist, because you cease to imagine it.

There exists a 'state of the Universe' where the Universe does not exist? 

[snowyowl]

14 hours ago, Tim R said:

Yeah but in both cases they are nothing, so imagining/not-imagining is a dualism which isn't actually real, yes? In other words, when I visit my father, nothing happened. And when I'm not visiting my father, nothing happened. Only me imagining that something ha

Images appear, out of nothing (everything), the unreality is when the image called 'I' claims ownership as the imaginer. It's so very sticky, wanting to own and control, doing the visiting, or choosing not to visit. But you're right, nothing is doing or choosing, or everything is, without separation. 

Edited April 8, 2021 by snowyowl

[Nahm]

@Mason Riggle

Universe is a clever word. It says one verse. That one verse, is the very word - universe. Just as soon as you speak it, it seems there is, a “universe”.