Forcing yourself to meditate? (longer)

[meow_meow]

Hey everyone, 

I was wondering if there is any point to force yourself to meditate if you don't really feel like it?
is there any point forcing yourself to meditate for longer periods of time when it starts to get boring? 

[BlackMaze]

I guess to observe the discomfort and and go beyond it. To be comfortable being uncomfortable like a cold shower and just observe rather than letting discomfort control your body. 

[gettoefl]

do you want to exist in your natural state or your mind addled state

the meditation state is who you are

you shouldn't force yourself to much lengthier levels than you are you used to else you will get frustrated and quit completely

but gradually increasing over time works well

the program has to be undertaken in terms of years and decades not weeks and months

once you are able to reach high conscious states, you can ramp down the formal sitting so there is this to look forward to, if you will

Edited April 5, 2021 by gettoefl

[meow_meow]

1 hour ago, BlackMaze said:

I guess to observe the discomfort and and go beyond it. To be comfortable being uncomfortable like a cold shower and just observe rather than letting discomfort control your body. 

I assume that you already know that this is way easier said than done.

13 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

the program has to be undertaken in terms of years and decades not weeks and months

 

What meditation technique do you use?

[BlackMaze]

2 minutes ago, meow_meow said:

I assume that you already know that this is way easier said than done.

Of course. I do it every day for a couple minutes during a cold shower and rarely while meditating. 

4 minutes ago, meow_meow said:

What meditation technique do you use?

I'm not a regular meditator. When i meditate i usually focus on feeling the inner body or the breath. I do consider playing drums a form of meditation. Almost always i meditate when i work. By that i mean watching myself doing the tasks needed, watching the body moving, feeling the objects i touch and so on. 

I have the unpopular opinion especially in this forum that to sit and meditate in not necessary. The only reason to meditate is because you enjoy it or to discover how to just be in your everyday life doing whatever else. To meditate for an hour and when you finish to stop meditating is not so effective imo. It is entirely possible to be aware constantly without meditating for years. I know because i experienced it just by reading Eckhart Tolle. The logic of sitting down to meditate everyday for years to become awake is faulty imo again. Everyone is free to disagree. It's now all the time. You are either in the now or your mind travels in the past or the future uncontrolled. That's it. When you really choose to live only in the now there is no need for meditation anymore because meditation becomes your normal state. I don't deny that it is something very beneficial to do or that possibly i need to meditate more often. I am not awake. I'm talking from a memory of an awakening. Not sure if i'm ready or if i prefer my illusions. 

[LfcCharlie4]

Personally, I don’t think meditation should be some hard arsed pursuit that you don’t enjoy, considering it’s “purpose” is to help you realise the joyous, natural state that you are. 
 

I would recommend watching Rupert Spira / Francis Lucilles videos on meditation, they explain this far better than I can in words! 

[allislove]

@meow_meow

I just share a "personal" story. I've read the post at the day it was posted: 

It inspired to meditate every day. I've started from 20 minutes. I've meditated 20/30 minutes for a pretty long period of time. Then, naturally there was a desire to bump meditation practice to 40 minutes and then to 1 hour. Only then the power of formal meditation practice was seen. I am not saying only meditation helped, a lot of spiritual tools was used in conjunction. Once the self power was seen the natural desire arose to meditate 2-3 hours from time to time. Nowadays there is 1 hour of morning meditation, it's literally a miracle. At the beginning there was so called plateau periods, when you have to push through so to speak, but in general if you bump timing gradually and listen to your feelings you're golden.    

[James123]

7 hours ago, meow_meow said:

Hey everyone, 

I was wondering if there is any point to force yourself to meditate if you don't really feel like it?
is there any point forcing yourself to meditate for longer periods of time when it starts to get boring? 

These are all thoughts, dont listen them. 

[Consilience]

There is definitely a point. When you begin to suffer from boredom, this is a prime opportunity to inquire into the suffering self, the beliefs, emotional dispositions, and thought structures holding the web of illusion together. 

The only way to face boredom is by stepping into it. After you step into boredom though, once you truly deconstruct, dissolve, re-integrate, and re-unify the body/mind processes giving rise to boredom, all that's left is pure beauty and fulfillment in the simplicity of ordinary waking, sober state of consciousness.

Practically, this means when boredom arises we have two options: 1) Inquiry, radical laser like focus into precisely 'what' is bored, whom boredom is occurring for, why boredom is occurring at all, what boredom even is, or 2) a deep radical surrender into the boredom, feeling the physical and emotional sensations of the boredom as deeply as possible. Eventually, the boredom completely dissolves into a fluid, spacious flow of perception arising and passing into and out of existence moment by moment; our attention and awareness become so sharp that we can detect the momentary arising and passing of perceptive experience. This flow opens us up into the truth of who and what we are. Boredom evaporates completely and gives way to a happiness, joy, satisfaction, fulfillment that needs nothing at all except the fact of our own existence in this moment.

Boredom is one of the biggest hurdles on the path, but the rewards for traveling into it, not avoiding it, are priceless. Be wary of teachers who claim you don't have to face things like boredom, pain, or suffering on the spiritual path. For example, it is impossible to transcend suffering unless we become very intimate with the reality of what suffering really is.

Edited April 5, 2021 by Consilience

[BipolarGrowth]

@meow_meow in my opinion, it’s better to do spiritual practices you have more desire to do and meditate more once the desire arises. Of course you’ll still get benefits from forcing meditation, but what’s the point? You can get just as deep or deeper following your heart in spiritual practices you enjoy rather than being some modern day ascetic and dictator to your ego. The easiest way to quit something is to force too much disciplined action on yourself when there are realistically no huge short-term punishments for quitting. 

[EddieEddie1995]

I forced myself to meditate for a long time (especially in the beginning) ... until it paid off. 

People in the future will lough at people who don't meditate. It is like you don't know how to use a smartphone now hue hue 

[meow_meow]

22 hours ago, Consilience said:

Boredom is one of the biggest hurdles on the path, but the rewards for traveling into it, not avoiding it, are priceless. Be wary of teachers who claim you don't have to face things like boredom, pain, or suffering on the spiritual path. For example, it is impossible to transcend suffering unless we become very intimate with the reality of what suffering really is.

Yes, for me loneliness stands right next to boredom.

Thanks for your input, I've actually been inquiring on "What is boredom?" but that hasn't really helped stopping it from occurring, but giving into the feeling and surrendering to it sort of dissolves it for a while.. however it always comes back.

Anyway, I guess I'll just continue inquiring and giving into it.

[gettoefl]

8 minutes ago, meow_meow said:

Yes, for me loneliness stands right next to boredom.

Thanks for your input, I've actually been inquiring on "What is boredom?" but that hasn't really helped stopping it from occurring, but giving into the feeling and surrendering to it sort of dissolves it for a while.. however it always comes back.

Anyway, I guess I'll just continue inquiring and giving into it.

boredom is the ever coddled mind saying, i need stimulation no less strong the kind i had before or else i shall keep on complaining

actually the ever astonishing now is all the real you needs, it has every possibility within it, you don't need people, you don't need things

a good maxim i use to remind me of this is, want nothing enjoy everything

yes it takes time and practice to reach these levels on consciousness but start small and build up, quality is more important than quantity

i get up at 4am each morning and hit the mat for couple hours, it used to be really hard now it is indispensable, it is my time for god to bless me richly

[Consilience]

1 hour ago, meow_meow said:

Yes, for me loneliness stands right next to boredom.

Thanks for your input, I've actually been inquiring on "What is boredom?" but that hasn't really helped stopping it from occurring, but giving into the feeling and surrendering to it sort of dissolves it for a while.. however it always comes back.

Anyway, I guess I'll just continue inquiring and giving into it.

Admittedly, it's a long road. For deep transformation to occur via meditation, usually progress comes in watershed moments. We're going along, and it feels like nothing is happening. We sit, and sit, and sit... things continue to feel stale. Hell, we may even experience a backsliding where sitting feels worse. And then suddenly, often out of nowhere, there is an opening, an awakening wherein we step into deeper territory. Suddenly we have more equanimity for whatever is arising, there is a subtly to our experience previously unnoticed, there is an intrinsic beauty to experience we miss when the mind is too active both at the conscious and unconscious levels.

Often times meditation progress is like an earth quake. An earth quake doesn't just suddenly and spontaneously happen, though the end result is quite sudden and spontaneous. An earth quake's origins are from very slow, small, cumulative shifts in tectonic plates. These shifts are extremely gradual yet lead to explosive and transformative results. The same mechanism is occurring with meditation, and particularly with facing these hinderances such as boredom, or loneliness as you referenced. 

I say all this to say, keep going. Trust whatever force inside of you is calling you to sit down and turn within, which is meditation. Trust that even when the surface level of mind and consciousness show little signs of transformation, there are deep rewirings and transformations occurring in the depths below the threshold of awareness. 

But on a slightly contradictory note, if your intuition is telling you to back off from practice because the boredom is too extreme, that's cool too. Nearly everything in life waxes and wanes over time. If you back off, you'll feel when you're ready to expand into more rigorous practice. I'd say more important than forcing yourself to sit through boredom is to have a daily practice in place. There is a significance in the cumulative aspect of meditation. Daily sits compound over time independent of the time spent sitting.  But as I mentioned in the original reply, yes there is something to be gained by traveling into the boredom. Yet there is something to be gained by re-grouping and backing off. Part of the path is learning to listen, interpret, and trust what our gut is telling us. 

Hope this helps in some way. 

Edited April 6, 2021 by Consilience

[Moksha]

Make your life a meditation. You don't have to sit in a dark cave to let go of the monkey mind, and simply be present. Internal connection vs. external realization. They are both ultimately the same.

[Enlightenment]

@meow_meow Yes and Yes

From my 4 year experience in meditation, there's no way to make it far without going through boredom and sometimes having to force yourself even if you don't feel like it. When you eventually make it to blissful effortless mindfulness and concentration, you'll see it was worth it

[meow_meow]

On 4/6/2021 at 10:20 PM, Consilience said:

If you back off, you'll feel when you're ready to expand into more rigorous practice.

Damn, this is so accurate. The biggest steps forward, especially in self-inqiry, have been after I get so pissed off and frustrated that I take a break for a while and then come back. 
 

On 4/6/2021 at 11:37 PM, Moksha said:

Make your life a meditation. You don't have to sit in a dark cave to let go of the monkey mind, and simply be present. Internal connection vs. external realization. They are both ultimately the same.

Yes, you are right, and this actually is one of my recent realizations that there really is no meditation, however this is a lot easier said than done, because in our every day lives we get sucked and forget, especially if you're in the rat race, like I am.
 

On 4/5/2021 at 9:54 PM, James123 said:

These are all thoughts, dont listen them. 

How exactly do you advise to achieve this? 
Because If these thoughts arise and I notice them, for me not to listen to them there has to be a counter thought that says "Don't listen to those thoughts" which itself is a thought and then I'm supposed to listen to the counter thought. In my experience trying not to think about something always leads to actually thinking about that thing even more.

[James123]

25 minutes ago, meow_meow said:

How exactly do you advise to achieve this? 
Because If these thoughts arise and I notice them, for me not to listen to them there has to be a counter thought that says "Don't listen to those thoughts" which itself is a thought and then I'm supposed to listen to the counter thought. In my experience trying not to think about something always leads to actually thinking about that thing even more.

What is your favorite thing to watch? Watch them as it, as a movie, including thought that says “dont listen to the thoughts “, till silence takes place. Mind will get tired. 

[Moksha]

41 minutes ago, meow_meow said:

Yes, you are right, and this actually is one of my recent realizations that there really is no meditation, however this is a lot easier said than done, because in our every day lives we get sucked and forget, especially if you're in the rat race, like I am.

The beauty of living meditation is that it puts your vigilance to the test:

When meditation is mastered, the mind is unwavering like the flame of a lamp in a windless place. In the still mind, in the depths of meditation, the Self reveals itself. Beholding the Self by means of the Self, an aspirant knows the joy and peace of complete fulfillment. Having attained that abiding joy beyond the senses, revealed in the stilled mind, he never swerves from the eternal truth. He desires nothing else, and cannot be shaken by the heaviest burden of sorrow.

- Bhagavad Gita 6:19

Meditating in solitude is relatively easy. The biggest enemy is boredom. So easy to consider yourself a guru in a vacuum.

Try maintaining presence in the face of your family, your boss, or the death of a loved one. Meditation literally rewires the mind, and empowers you to remain unwavering, despite the turbulence of life.

[Breakingthewall]

Less than a year ago, meditating was like holding my breath underwater. after a few minutes I was drowning. As I understood the need to do it, I continued doing it in sets of 5 minutes, at different times of the day. In a few months I began to notice the difference between meditating and not doing it, and I began to be able to meditate properly, even so for a short time, 15 min maximum. I started with the psychedelics and the opening they caused made the meditation more profound. recently meditating has become the best thing I do, time is no longer a goal. finally there are moments of true emptiness, something intimate and of great beauty. As they said above, in the future not meditating will be like not knowing how to read.