The false rape problem

[throaway]

11 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Look 

Sexual assault is no joke. The way you are talking flippantly about it. 

And please don't make this subject into a Rape Victim versus Falsely Accused. 

There is absolutely no comparison and such a comparison is very hurtful. 

Also such comparisons don't make any sense at all because these are two separate victims and on two different levels. 

Do you even understand the pain of a rape survivor?

If you really did, you wouldn't be making  casual comparisons like that. 

This is if someone lost their passport and comparing their suffering to the suffering of a rape victim. 

That's why I said this thread is triggering. 

Do you even realize that people who are falsely accused don't even go to jail because for jail, you need evidence, and there can be no evidence if there is no rape. 

Do you understand the gravity of your comparisons? 

Please try to understand how the law works first 

There are attorneys and lawyers and judges and investigators 

If someone is falsely accused they can easily prove that in court. 

 

 

I understand that there is no comparison, but I wasn't the one who compared. I saw others comparing and downplaying false accusations as if they're nothing when that's not the reality. In fact, you are the one who literally just compared being falsely accused to losing your passport!

The consequences of my false accusation did not come from going to jail, I did not even go to court because it was so unbelievably obvious that no rape occured. They came from having all of my possessions taken away from me for months and haaving no money to even buy a new phone or clothes. Because I had no phone, I had no contact with my friends, no social media, no ability to live my life like a normal person. I became addicted to substances to cope with the anguish of what had happened to me, the suffering my parents went through. Do you know my mum cried herself to sleep for weeks? I could hear her in the middle of the night crying every day. Do you know how that made me feel? Do you know how it felt to be constantly paranoid for months about the police going through my things and finding all of the evidence that I take psychedelics and using that against me in court? Do you know how it felt to spend a year working hard and saving up money to have to spend ALL OF IT and go into debt just to pay for a lawyer to prove my innocence and not be reinbursed in any way? No, you will never understand unless you experience it.

I am not the one who made comparisons first, YOU DID. We can agree to disagree, but you should think hard about what you just wrote because I guarantee you if you lived through what I've lived, you wouldn't have written it.

11 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

This is if someone lost their passport and comparing their suffering to the suffering of a rape victim. 

 

[Preety_India]

@throaway I wasn't comparing losing a passport to being falsely accused. 

I was trying to show you the difference in terms of severity by giving that example. 

I definitely sympathize with your situation. 

But you didn't go to jail. Obviously. 

And even if you suffered terribly, it is no comparison to what a rape victim goes through for the rest of their life. 

That was my point, to show you the difference between the level of suffering.. 

 Not trying to downplay your suffering but by offering a trivial situation I wanted you to know that rape is extremely severe and whatever suffering you go through will never be anywhere close to it. 

 

 

[krockerman]

1 minute ago, Preety_India said:

@throaway I wasn't comparing losing a passport to being falsely accused. 

I was trying to show you the difference in terms of severity by giving that example. 

I definitely sympathize with your situation. 

But you didn't go to jail. Obviously. 

And even if you suffered terribly, it is no comparison to what a rape victim goes through for the rest of their life. 

That was my point, to show you the difference between the level of suffering.. 

 Not trying to downplay your suffering but by offering a trivial situation I wanted you to know that rape is extremely severe and whatever suffering you go through will never be anywhere close to it. 

 

 

I started this post on the Issue of How We can prevent false rape accusations 

Then you started blaming me and started to compare false accusation with real rape. And now you have said that you can’t compare them. You Don’t bring anything constructive to this post. I wanted to find a solution of How to solve the issue of false accusation. I never wanted any blame game. 
 

How Do you know? What is worse is relative. Stop being so absolutist

[throaway]

7 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

@throaway I wasn't comparing losing a passport to being falsely accused. 

I was trying to show you the difference in terms of severity by giving that example. 

I definitely sympathize with your situation. 

But you didn't go to jail. Obviously. 

And even if you suffered terribly, it is no comparison to what a rape victim goes through for the rest of their life. 

That was my point, to show you the difference between the level of suffering.. 

 Not trying to downplay your suffering but by offering a trivial situation I wanted you to know that rape is extremely severe and whatever suffering you go through will never be anywhere close to it. 

 

 

I understand. It's a shame you can't realise that each situation is relative to each individual, you have no idea the suffering I went through and you seem to be trying to make it a competition where being raped always comes out on top in terms of suffering but that's not an objective truth.

Regardless, I respect your fight for justice, we should all work towards making this world a better place for everyone. Lots of love to you. I hope you one day see the severity of other people's problems as well as your own.

Edited April 4, 2021 by throaway

[Preety_India]

@throaway @krockerman ok fine. Carry on. I'm out. 

 

[Blackhawk]

Well it's weird that for all other crimes you need a shitload of evidence before you can get convicted, because of that almost all criminals walk free in Sweden for example. It'a very difficult to get convicted. In Sweden the official motto in the justice system is: "rather acquit than convict". Hm I think it's the same thing in other democratic countries, I think it's called "benefit of doubt".

But with rape there is suddenly zero requirement of any evidence at all????? All that is needed is a few words from a female. What the fuck?

So I'm scared that I could some day be falsely convicted of raping a woman. There are many crazy evil women (also men) out there who do anything to harm the man (or woman) they hate, I know that from personal experience.

Edited April 4, 2021 by Blackhawk

[Gesundheit]

@Blackhawk

13 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

There's a branch of science called forensic medicine that deals with this sort of stuff. These things are not so hard to disprove like you imagine. They require specialists with knowledge and experience. These specialists are trained and can discern with high accuracy whether the accusations are true or false.

Luckily, someone who uses these kinds of tricks to manipulate others does not know about this science, so they make mistakes along the way of committing their false accusations. Those mistakes are where they set themselves up for embarrassment, fines, and even serving a sentence.

This isn't something to worry about.

 

[Gesundheit]

@krockerman @Blackhawk

As an example, in order to prove rape, there must exist certain indicators that there's an actual commitment of the crime first, including physical and psychological. And then they proceed to look for evidence related to the accused person. Evidence includes nails, scratches, semen, sweat, hairs, saliva, etc... They look for these things and other things and they make DNA tests, and all other required tests. They also ask the examining doctors to swear an oath and sign papers that they're fully responsible for the information they're providing to the court. As well, there must exist a rational and a logically-coherent story that the evidence supports in order to make court judgement.

It's a science in and of itself. And it's too complex for a normal person to find ways around or to even be aware of.

Edited April 5, 2021 by Gesundheit

[Epikur]

 

Quote

Man walks out of jail a free man after rape charges dropped, says justice system failed him

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHpFyDzzZGk

Edited April 6, 2021 by Epikur

[Danioover9000]

   There's a difference between being raped, and being falsely accused for rape. The former involves physical, psychological and to some contexts in the past social suffering, and the later mostly has more psychological and social suffering and ramifications that effect one's standing in their communities.

   For the sake of simple, let's exclusively focus on false accusations on rape and provide links and videos of false accusations and their effects:

 

Edited April 6, 2021 by Danioover9000

[Danioover9000]

 

[Thittato]

Between rape and false rape acusations there is also the landscape where one part think it was rape but the other part doesn't think it was signaled clear enough, or signaled at all, from the other that he/she was no longer interested in participating in the sexual act - a so-called misunderstanding, typically happening when there is alcohol and/or drugs involved and the level of clearity around what is going on is compromised. There seems to be a power-struggle going on here where some people think this is all black and white and consent is either given completely or not given at all, and there is no room for misunderstandings or poor communication, while others want there to be a "grey area" here and have some margin of error. One can typically think that two persons ending up in such a situation that one part will genuinly claim that he/she was raped while the other part will genuinly claim that he/she had no intention of having sex with anyone without consent. I wouldn't exactly call this a false rape acusation but it will probably be experienced like that for the one who didn't think he/she did anything wrong, and it will cause a lot of suffering for both involved. I think some more wisdom and better communication and conflict-resolution around situations like these is something our culture desperately needs.

[Roy]

Look I know it's tough because we as guys are hyper neurotic about being right and logical for every fucking case, but it's better for us as a society to generally believe women and victims until the justice system can do the best that is can to solve things.

There is nothing fun or enjoyable for the woman to go through the process about being violated either, you think they are doing it for shits and giggles? There is massive systemic discrimination against victims who are female and/or minorities and we've only started to see real change in the past few decades.

If someone is truly innocent they have nothing to worry about. Will some innocent people get falsely accused and have their lives damaged? Yes! Too bad. Some collateral damage is the cost of societal progress.

You have to realize women have had the shit end of the stick for thousands of years, now things are finally starting to swing the other way. You can either have the courage to acknowledge this and help move everything forward best we can, or you can hold us all back by being a resistant twat and clinging onto logical perfection.

How do you think we are going to root out the deep sexism that exists in our society that makes women feel unsafe and vulnerable? It's by giving them the space to express themselves and call it out where they see it, even if they are wrong sometimes.

[Thittato]

8 minutes ago, Roy said:

Look I know it's tough because we as guys are hyper neurotic about being right and logical for every fucking case, but it's better for us as a society to generally believe women and victims until the justice system can do the best that is can to solve things.

There is nothing fun or enjoyable for the woman to go through the process about being violated either, you think they are doing it for shits and giggles? There is massive systemic discrimination against victims who are female and/or minorities and we've only started to see real change in the past few decades.

If someone is truly innocent they have nothing to worry about. Will some innocent people get falsely accused and have their lives damaged? Yes! Too bad. Some collateral damage is the cost of societal progress.

You have to realize women have had the shit end of the stick for thousands of years, now things are finally starting to swing the other way. You can either have the courage to acknowledge this and help move everything forward best we can, or you can hold us all back by being a resistant twat and clinging onto logical perfection.

How do you think we are going to root out the deep sexism that exists in our society that makes women feel unsafe and vulnerable? It's by giving them the space to express themselves and call it out where they see it, even if they are wrong sometimes.

Well. I think we can have balanced and respectful conversation about all aspects of this. A lot of men (and women) think there is more to all of this than what is currently allowed to talk openly about, and I don't think it is fair that only one side is allowed to voice their opinions. Nothing good ever comes out of shaming other perspectives into silence. This conversation is certainly going to continue in our society for a long time, so it needs to be explored from all angles in order for our collective understanding of this problem to evolve into a greater understanding than what we currently have today. This whole thing is a huge generational trauma in all of us, and I don't think the climate in todays mainstream society is particularly helpful in bringing healing to this, BUT at least it is good that the process has started!

[Emerald]

So, it's just a matter of men needing to take on more risk factor for the sake of taking some of the burden off of women's shoulders.

Let's say that women's risk of rape/being accused of false accusation AND men's risk of being falsely accused of rape is symbolized by rocks.

Now, men are carrying around 20 lbs of rocks everywhere they go as this represents the likelihood of them being falsely accused of rape. 

And women are carrying around 1000 lbs of rocks which represents the likelihood of them being raped and then accused of false accusation.

Because the risk women are carrying is FAR greater than the risk men are carrying, when men get concerned about false accusation and criticize the MeToo Movement, it just looks like men trying to shovel their 20 lbs of rocks off onto women who are already carrying 1000 lbs of rocks. Men want women to carry all the risk factor and get rid of their risk factor altogether.

Now, for a man who is falsely accused, of course it's terrible. 

But to expect that women take on all the liability of rape is just selfish.

And there's already a huge issue that, when women come forward about rape, their communities don't believe them and ostracize them and side with the man. So, you're trying to feel more secure and safe and to guarantee you'll never be falsely accused (which is very unlikely to happen)... but women don't have any such exemption. 

[Emerald]

On 4/4/2021 at 3:10 PM, Opo said:

5% is kinda a lot. 

The statistics for false rape accusations are the same for false accusations of any crime... which is about 2%. 

Rape accusations are not more likely to false compared to any other crime.

[Roy]

38 minutes ago, Emerald said:

And there's already a huge issue that, when women come forward about rape, their communities don't believe them and ostracize them and side with the man. So, you're trying to feel more secure and safe and to guarantee you'll never be falsely accused (which is very unlikely to happen)... but women don't have any such exemption. 

The whole thing just reeks of Stage Orange neuroticism - "But you can't assume 100% of cases are guilty without a few false accusations so why should I vocally support 100% of women?"

It's not only about the actual cases that happen, that the job of the courts and legal system to figure out - It's about providing the social atmosphere for people who don't feel safe to be able to come forward with their traumas without being ridiculed into silence again.

As men this should be so obvious to us anyways, how many of you have heard locker room talk where some guy openly admits and brags about some borderline rapey shit they got away with?

Edited April 7, 2021 by Roy

[Emerald]

1 minute ago, Roy said:

The whole thing just reeks of Stage Orange neuroticism - "But you can't assume 100% of cases are guilty without a few false accusations so why should I vocally support 100% of women?"

It's not only about the actual cases that happen, that the job of the courts and legal system to figure out - It's about providing the social atmosphere for people who don't feel safe to be able to come forward with their traumas without being ridiculed into silence again.

Yes, exactly. It's about creating a culture where it's less punishing to come forward about rape. 

[Parththakkar12]

When you are falsely accused, all evidence flies out the window. The system is hell-bent on destroying your life if you are a guy!

We keep making the assumption that evidence is objectively considered in rape accusations. It's not! It's very easy for a woman to ruin a man's life in today's date. The system literally just has it out for the accused in that situation, not because there is any base to the accusation, but because the system has an ass to cover. Because, at the end of the day, we don't care about the truth. We care about making everyone happy in the moment, so that all hell doesn't break loose.

This is the situation, even though we are living in a patriarchy. Imagine how bad it would've gotten if we lived in a matriarchy!

Oops. I said something that's too true. I'm going to get a ban-hammer now or I'm going to get warning-points now. Society ain't ready for the truth, man!

Edited April 7, 2021 by Parththakkar12

[Gesundheit]

5 hours ago, Parththakkar12 said:

When you are falsely accused, all evidence flies out the window. The system is hell-bent on destroying your life if you are a guy!

We keep making the assumption that evidence is objectively considered in rape accusations. It's not! It's very easy for a woman to ruin a man's life in today's date. The system literally just has it out for the accused in that situation, not because there is any base to the accusation, but because the system has an ass to cover. Because, at the end of the day, we don't care about the truth. We care about making everyone happy in the moment, so that all hell doesn't break loose.

This is the situation, even though we are living in a patriarchy. Imagine how bad it would've gotten if we lived in a matriarchy!

Oops. I said something that's too true. I'm going to get a ban-hammer now or I'm going to get warning-points now. Society ain't ready for the truth, man!

That's blatantly false. Do some research before throwing claims as such.

Edited April 7, 2021 by Gesundheit