What if masculine/feminine was actually bs?

[Farnaby]

Hi everyone!

I see a lot of people in the spiritual community talking about masculine and feminine energy and how women generally are attracted to "masculine" men and men to "feminine" women. 

While I've found this to be a pretty useful theory, especially as a person who tends to people-please and who has benefited of the idea of integrating and embodying my masculine side, I also think it's too easy to get attached to these concepts and try to just develop a new persona that you think will be more attractive (i.e acting more maculine, whatever that means).

IMO, instead of trying to act more masculine or feminine one should aim to become as authentic as possible, allowing whatever is arising in the moment to be embodied and expressed (without harming anyone of course). 

Maybe a more accurate way of looking at attraction is to say: "we (men and women) generally like confident and loving people and we tend to dislike insecure, inauthentic and needy people".  On an even more elementary level one could say: "we are attracted to people with a vibe that feels good to be around".

I see it more as a process of getting rid of limiting conditionings and allowing our true nature/essence to express itself and not so much of developing certain behaviors that could be considered more masculine or feminine.

What do you think?

Edited April 2, 2021 by Farnaby

[intotheblack]

20 hours ago, Farnaby said:

IMO, instead of trying to act more masculine or feminine one should aim to become as authentic as possible, allowing whatever is arising in the moment to be embodied and expressed (without harming anyone of course). 

Maybe a more accurate way of looking at attraction is to say: "we (men and women) generally like confident and loving people and we tend to dislike insecure, inauthentic and needy people".  On an even more elementary level one could say: "we are attracted to people with a vibe that feels good to be around".

I see it more as a process of getting rid of limiting conditionings and allowing our true nature/essence to express itself and not so much of developing certain behaviors that could be considered more masculine or feminine.

Yeah I agree.  Whilst there is the masculine and feminine energies naturally, I don’t think we should get too hung up on the labels and try to fit into a certain box or be a certain way.  It becomes too restricting rather than natural..In real life situations, it’s either you attract or you don’t, without thinking too much about how feminine or masculine someone is.  It causes men to worry they are too feminine or women to worry they are too masculine etc. 

@soos_mite_ah and @Emerald might have some thoughts on this. 


 

[JohnD]

@Farnaby You make some good points.

I don't find value in acting more masculine/feminine, and I find inauthentic behaviors unsustainable. However, I'm cautious to write off the idea of feminine/masculine. It's a historical polarity, and there's a reason the distinction is so pervasive.

Here's where I find value. Having the idea can help you attune to your experience of the masculine/feminine energy, and experiencing it is what matters. When you experience any energy, you increase your capacity to hold and express it. 

So knowing about it helps you identify it in your experience. Experiencing it allows you to integrate. Integration allows you to be more authentic.

[Gesundheit]

Define authenticity.

[soos_mite_ah]

I see masculinity and femininity as a way of defining duality. Like pull and push or external and internal. Sometimes the labels masculinity and femininity can aid in communication and give you an idea of what you need to integrate. 

Because masculinity and femininity are labels and because both women and men have their own combination of the energies that is authentic to them, I characterize masculinity and femininity as gender neutral. There are men who are naturally more feminine and forcing them to be masculine wouldn't be healthy. Same goes for women who are more masculine and forcing femininity on to them.

That said, integration of both polarities can help us move into more balance and cause the polarities to manifest in a healthier way. That's the goal. It isn't to be the most masculine man or the most feminine woman especially if it isn't authentic to you. Again, the polarities are gender neutral.

A good example of healthy integration is someone who is really masculine and consequently also carries on a lot of the toxic forms of masculinity. Integration of the feminine can help soften and balance out the toxicity and let that person's natural masculinity manifest in a more conscious way. It won't make that person suddenly lean more feminine if that wasn't authentic to them from the beginning. 

While we should do what feels authentic, sometimes if we are really off balance it can help going to the other end to see all that you need to integrate or to see if you are suppressing anything. From then you can explore and simply take what sticks and leave the rest. That's what I did when I was integrating my feminine energy. I swung more to the other end for the sake of exploration because I suppressed a lot of my femininity growing up due to internalized misogyny. There are somethings with traditional femininity that doesn't resonate with me such as makeup for example. But even though I don't resonate with wearing a ton of makeup I no longer judge other women who do wear it like I used to. I think it's rather silly now but when I was like 12-13, I thought women who wore a ton of makeup were fake, insecure, or doing it to get male attention but now I see that these women don't actually give af and are doing it to express themselves creatively. For me personally, wearing makeup would feel rather forced tbh so I don't push myself even though I've been trying to step into my feminine energy more. 

I still think that I lean more towards the masculine side even though I'm a woman. But I have a better idea of where my own polarities lie more since I went out and tried things from both ends. 

Edited April 3, 2021 by soos_mite_ah

[soos_mite_ah]

I guess my whole thing is that masculinity and femininity aren't bs but ascribing them to gender norms and boxing people into a form of self expression because of their gender identity is bs. Aim for authenticity so that you can work towards integration. That will help you be more in alignment than if you were to try to paint yourself as a caricature of what you think a woman or man should be like based on a bunch of social conditioning. 

Edited April 3, 2021 by soos_mite_ah

[Farnaby]

@soos_mite_ah thanks a lot for the detailed answer. I completely agree. What I don't like about all this stuff is that it's really easy to interpret it as "something about me isn't right and needs to be fixed" or "I need to copy those behaviors to become more masculine/feminine". IMO, the ideal thing would be to let go of conditionings instead of adding new ones. Relax, get grounded in our bodies and let our natural essence "permeate" through us so to speak. 

I agree though that it's useful to experiment with the polarity one is less used to embody, because we have often repressed it. 

1 hour ago, soos_mite_ah said:

I thought women who wore a ton of makeup were fake, insecure, or doing it to get male attention

What I'm going to say will maybe trigger some people, but I actually think you were right about the "get attention" part. I don't see this as something that's bad though. We rarely do such things (make-up, groom ourselves, go to the gym, dress up elegantly, etc.) exclusively for us. We like what other people mirror back to us when we do those things and that's a big part of why we do it. There's no reason to be ashamed of wanting to look sexy or wanting to increase our chances of having sex, attracting a partner, etc.  

[soos_mite_ah]

52 minutes ago, Farnaby said:

@soos_mite_ah thanks a lot for the detailed answer. I completely agree. What I don't like about all this stuff is that it's really easy to interpret it as "something about me isn't right and needs to be fixed" or "I need to copy those behaviors to become more masculine/feminine". IMO, the ideal thing would be to let go of conditionings instead of adding new ones. 

It can be difficult to discern whether you are doing something to let go of conditioning or you are grabbing on to more conditioning. I think that cross road appears depending on why you want to integrate a polarity. If it's coming from a place of insecurity it can easily spiral into something cringey (like all of the alpha male bs) but if its coming from a place of expansion and love for yourself, then there is a lot of opportunity for growth. 

52 minutes ago, Farnaby said:

What I'm going to say will maybe trigger some people, but I actually think you were right about the "get attention" part. I don't see this as something that's bad though. We rarely do such things (make-up, groom ourselves, go to the gym, dress up elegantly, etc.) exclusively for us. We like what other people mirror back to us when we do those things and that's a big part of why we do it. There's no reason to be ashamed of wanting to look sexy or wanting to increase our chances of having sex, attracting a partner, etc.  

I agree with this to a certain extent in the sense that a lot of things isn't 100% exclusive for us and how there is no shame in wanting to look hot so long as you don't feel obligated to out of insecurity. 

But in my experience, the few women who were doing their makeup from a place of insecurity to attract men, never actually attract men. They just end up attracting women who appreciate their makeup skills instead lol. Because men aren't going to appreciate or understand how well you did your winged liner. Most of them can barely the difference between lipliner and lipstick. They don't care makeup lol. 

And women who wear makeup know this. They know that men don't appreciate makeup but the keep doing it because it is an authentic expression of their femininity and creativity. Personally, I find doing my makeup every now and then to feel therapeutic, like I'm doing something nice to take care of myself. Men are the last thing on my mind. It's really annoying for some men with big egos to assume that what we do with our appearance is for them and that the world revolves around their interests. Some things have nothing to do with men and some men don't get that. 

It's similar to how some insecure guys tried to be a body builder because they think it will attract girls because of what they perceive is attractive. Body builders don't attract women, they just attract other gym bros who want to know their workout routine and meal plans. Because most women don't give af about body building and the such.

I mention all of this because it goes back to wanting to be this caricature of masculinity or femininity to attract the opposite sex and it ultimately backfires because most people aren't really into extremes and just want to find energies that complement one another. It also doesn't do masculinity and femininity justice because there are so many ways that a person can embody either polarity given their own unique personality. Boxing yourself into a narrow idea of what you think is masculine or feminine strips the creativity and authenticity out of a person's energy. Personally, if I had to put a number on my masculinity and femininity polarity, I'd say that I'm like 60% masculine 40% feminine and I often find guys who lean more feminine more attractive. Like you said, 

On 4/2/2021 at 1:11 PM, Farnaby said:

Maybe a more accurate way of looking at attraction is to say: "we (men and women) generally like confident and loving people and we tend to dislike insecure, inauthentic and needy people".  On an even more elementary level one could say: "we are attracted to people with a vibe that feels good to be around".

 

Edited April 3, 2021 by soos_mite_ah

[LastThursday]

@Farnaby I thought I'd chime in since I have an interest in this.

On 02/04/2021 at 7:11 PM, Farnaby said:

IMO, instead of trying to act more masculine or feminine one should aim to become as authentic as possible, allowing whatever is arising in the moment to be embodied and expressed (without harming anyone of course). 

You make an important point about being authentic. From my point of view it's not about acting, but just being more free. The ideas of masculinity and feminity are just guidelines. It's not that you should behave in a more masculine or feminine way, but awareness of what the two things offer is what's more important. In a way it doesn't matter if the labels of masculine or feminine are stereotypes or archetypes, they are just useful templates to make you aware of how these things already manifest in yourself. It's about paying attention.

Once you are aware of these different "energies" within yourself, then you have the freedom to consciously express them, so that you can be more authentic. It's about freedom to consciously choose, instead of unconsciously acting and being inauthentic.

If you think the masculine and feminine labels are not useful, then you're right, don't engage with them.

Personally, I think I could be more free and authentic if I embodied some feminine qualities, but it's really more about turning up the feminine volume already in myself, than taking on a new identity or acting in a more feminine way. It's freedom.

 

[Preety_India]

8 minutes ago, LastThursday said:

@Farnaby I thought I'd chime in since I have an interest in this.

You make an important point about being authentic. From my point of view it's not about acting, but just being more free. The ideas of masculinity and feminity are just guidelines. It's not that you should behave in a more masculine or feminine way, but awareness of what the two things offer is what's more important. In a way it doesn't matter if the labels of masculine or feminine are stereotypes or archetypes, they are just useful templates to make you aware of how these things already manifest in yourself. It's about paying attention.

Once you are aware of these different "energies" within yourself, then you have the freedom to consciously express them, so that you can be more authentic. It's about freedom to consciously choose, instead of unconsciously acting and being inauthentic.

If you think the masculine and feminine labels are not useful, then you're right, don't engage with them.

Personally, I think I could be more free and authentic if I embodied some feminine qualities, but it's really more about turning up the feminine volume already in myself, than taking on a new identity or acting in a more feminine way. It's freedom.

 

I agree with this 

 

[flowboy]

On 2-4-2021 at 8:11 PM, Farnaby said:

"we (men and women) generally like confident and loving people and we tend to dislike insecure, inauthentic and needy people".

That is true and fine, but it is unrelated to masculine/feminine energy.

It is indeed a trap to turn it into a strive to be some way. That's a mistake. It doesn't mean that masculine and feminine energies are not real. They are very real and every person has both. And everyone can embody one or the other in any given moment, but they are distinct: when in your masculine, you will be atttacted to femininity, when in your feminine, you will be attracted to masculinity.

I bet you haven't experienced yourself switching polarities consciously before. Once you experience that, it is a realisation that is undoubted, you can not unsee it, and actually being aware of your feminine and masculine energies, and learning to let go and embodying them fully, creates the freedom to be whichever way you want to be, in any moment. Paradoxically, it frees you of the restrictions from your ego saying: "but you have a penis, you should behave masculine right now"

Hope that helps?

[Farnaby]

@flowboy it helps a lot, thank you. I have experienced it consciously and especially in the last year or so I have been more able to notice when I'm switching from one polarity to the other. 

However I think one could argue that what constitutes "masculine" and "feminine" is kind of culturally defined and maybe not the best label for our individual "energy signature" if you know what I mean. If I hadn't read about this topic before, I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't have said "ohhhh, so right now I'm repressing my masculine part to avoid conflict". What I mean is that without the theoretical background, the experience would just have been an experience of not being authentic, without labels of masculine/feminine.

I do agree though that it's really useful to become aware of how our energy changes, how we can decide to embody the one we tend to repress, etc.

On 4/4/2021 at 1:52 AM, LastThursday said:

Personally, I think I could be more free and authentic if I embodied some feminine qualities, but it's really more about turning up the feminine volume already in myself, than taking on a new identity or acting in a more feminine way. It's freedom.

yep, that's exactly what I mean. We have our unique essence underneath our conditioning. There is no need to add anything, just practice letting go of that conditioning so you aren't turning down your own volume  

[LastThursday]

@Farnaby I do love a good agreement. Most of us are blind to our own essence, we behave out of pure conditioning, mindlessly and automatically and on occasion self-destructively. So sometimes we need something to hold on to, so that we can climb upwards. Masculine and feminine energies are useful grips.