Corona Cult

[Twega]

@Epikur 

15 hours ago, Epikur said:

People are mostly not so smart to figure out what is good for them, specially if powerful people have an interest to lie to them.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/09/13/493739074/50-years-ago-sugar-industry-quietly-paid-scientists-to-point-blame-at-fat

 The Keto/ Carnivore / Joe Rogan type love to mention this study as a way to attempt to demonstrate that sugar is bad and fat is good, it has just been demonized. No. Sugar is bad, fat is even worse.

The dairy industry does the exact same thing and not 50 years ago, but right now.

https://nutritionfacts.org/video/how-the-dairy-industry-designs-misleading-studies/

[Tangerinedream]

I understand the wearing a mask, keep distance etc.  But what I can’t understand is the half lockdowns and rules that change every week.  I am also in Germany, and everyone is really tired of this.  Do a full hardcore lockdown or allow places to open with restrictions. 

First they allow only hairdressers to open, (which to me makes no sense in the beginning since it’s close contact to the body, as if hairdressers are front line workers) 

They banned the use of fabric masks and say you can only wear surgical masks or FFP2 masks.  So, citizens rush to buy the new disposable masks...

One of the ministers complains that nobody is using the testing centres and that they are empty. 

1 week later the rules change again and now you must show a negative corona test to go to the hairdresser, or to go in a ‘non essential’ shop.  But to go in supermarkets or pharmacies etc. No test is needed! 

My hairdresser friend had 80% of the customers cancel after the new test rule. All the workers are back on ‘furlough’ 

Now all workers must be tested 1 or 2 times per week. 

Self tests are available for purchase between 5-20€... but - they are very inaccurate, and they aren’t valid for entry into shops anymore... so wtf is the point of them? 

now all the test centres are packed out, you can’t get an appointment and everyone is more stressed.  

Then they decide this week that surgical masks are banned and you must wear only an FFP2 mask. (people need to buy more new masks)

there is talk of a full lockdown again on the horizon, and this would be better than these half lockdowns.  But it won’t happen because people can’t stay home, as we see 1 year later.  

people are out in the streets and parks, mixing in groups, but you can’t go to the gym? 

When the sun is shining herds of people are meeting without masks, yet I must show a negative corona test to go for a haircut when the man/woman is wearing a mask and disinfecting all of the tools. 

They keep making it more strict and adding more rules, people can’t keep up and end up rebelling and stop caring

Edited April 3, 2021 by Tangerinedream

[vladorion]

1 hour ago, Extreme Z7 said:

You have a lot of terrible talking points, most of them were very popular during the early days of the pandemic but nowadays they're just really really easy to debunk. But the "think of all the suicides" talking point is by far one of the worst.

If we just let the virus roam free and affect millions and millions more people, it would definitely not somehow lead to less misery, suicides, and depression as this talking point implies. But of course, you deny that Covid is even that much of a threat to begin with so even pointing this out is not going to change your mind.

I can tell by how much you Gish Gallop that your mind is really deep in a really bad rabbit-hole of nonsense that no amount of fact-checking will get you out of. You're new here, so I should tell you that you're kind of dogmatic behavior can easily get you banned if you just keep doing what you're doing the whole way through.

Didn't see anything dogmatic in his posts, as opposed to yours. Not allowing yourself to ask those questions is what's dogmatic. 

[Consept]

18 hours ago, BadHippie said:

It just feels pretty surreal to me, that people on this forum are so willing to take a vaccine, which they most likely don´t even know the ingredients of. People are saying "no" to GMOs, but are suddenly OK with genetically modifying their own organism? 

OK so just to clarify your overall points on this topic, im interpreting it as, we should be careful what we put in our bodies and research all ingredients to make sure they are not harmful both in the short term and long term, we should not trust studies or experts as they can have bias and studies can be falsified. As we can never be 100% sure of any scientific research we should just say we probably dont know and let nature do its thing. 

So Im going to lay out what some of your points look like in practice and you let me know if this is what you. Every food ingredient of every food consumed is checked, this will also include vitamin levels and nutrients if they are fruit and veg, since every food might have different levels or amount of ingredients, they will have to be checked every time. Water ph and minerals will have to be checked as well ph levels of every glass of water consumed, obviously other drinks would have to be checked as well. Any medicines or drugs would have to be checked. The air that you breath would have to be checked for oxygen and carbon dioxide levels or any other gases. All of these checks and research would have to be done by you personally, as stated the medical establishment cant be trusted. 

Are these things that you do regularly and if not does that imply some kind of trust in terms of what youre putting in your body?

[Jodistrict]

What we are seeing is the insanity of a modern medical system based on scientific reductionism.   Instead of working with nature, they fight nature using their magic bullets and brutal lockdowns, and nature is winning.  We were told that the vaccine was the solution, but now we are told that there are dangerous mutations. 

It’s interesting that the Amish community is the first community on record to have obtained herd immunity.   The Amish reject much of modern technology and don’t buy into the false paradigm created by scientific materialism. 

https://www.fox29.com/news/amish-community-in-lancaster-county-reaches-herd-immunity-from-covid-19-medical-center-says
 

[Consept]

3 minutes ago, Jodistrict said:

What we are seeing is the insanity of a modern medical system based on scientific reductionism.   Instead of working with nature, they fight nature using their magic bullets and brutal lockdowns, and nature is winning.  We were told that the vaccine was the solution, but now we are told that there are dangerous mutations. 

It’s interesting that the Amish community is the first community on record to have obtained herd immunity.   The Amish reject much of modern technology and don’t buy into the false paradigm created by scientific materialism. 

https://www.fox29.com/news/amish-community-in-lancaster-county-reaches-herd-immunity-from-covid-19-medical-center-says
 

The Amish community have numerous outbreaks of things like measles and polio almost every year. Also doctor quoted from your article says -"I don't personally believe that we will reach herd immunity going forward without the use of vaccination."

 Covid has definitely affected these communities - https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/02/10/fact-check-false-claim-amish-dont-get-covid-19/4455551001/

The reason why its not worse is because they are relatively small communities, if the whole population did what they did it would be a disaster 

[Epikur]

22 minutes ago, Consept said:

The Amish community have numerous outbreaks of things like measles and polio almost every year. Also doctor quoted from your article says -"I don't personally believe that we will reach herd immunity going forward without the use of vaccination."

 Covid has definitely affected these communities - https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/02/10/fact-check-false-claim-amish-dont-get-covid-19/4455551001/

The reason why its not worse is because they are relatively small communities, if the whole population did what they did it would be a disaster 

The only data your link provides is 'In June, Dr. Stephen Diamantoni, Lancaster County coroner, said six members of the Old Order Amish died from COVID-19-related illnesses over just a few weeks.' Terrible article.

Affected can mean lots of things. It does not look like the Amish feel like they are dying in significant numbers. They seem quite relaxed.

https://nypost.com/2021/03/28/amish-group-could-reach-covid-herd-immunity-health-official/

Edited April 3, 2021 by Epikur

[vladorion]

34 minutes ago, Consept said:

The Amish community have numerous outbreaks of things like measles and polio almost every year. Also doctor quoted from your article says -"I don't personally believe that we will reach herd immunity going forward without the use of vaccination."

 Covid has definitely affected these communities - https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/02/10/fact-check-false-claim-amish-dont-get-covid-19/4455551001/

The reason why its not worse is because they are relatively small communities, if the whole population did what they did it would be a disaster 

There is no evidence that it would be a disaster. Some countries have barely any restrictions and no mask mandates and I don't see a disaster happening there. It's not much different from the pre-'pandemic' times.

[Frylock]

The "But the suicides!" was a major talking point against lockdowns and preventive measures, but that unsurprisingly turned out to be bunk. Suicides actually decreased in 2020.

https://www.axios.com/suicide-decreased-in-2020-pandemmic-mental-health-26196eaf-a245-4d21-85eb-eeb864a24449.html

[Consept]

1 minute ago, vladorion said:

There is no evidence that it would be a disaster. Some countries have barely any restrictions and no mask mandates and I don't see a disaster happening there. It's not much different from the pre-'pandemic' times.

What countries have had hardly any restrictions? 

 

19 minutes ago, Epikur said:

Affected can mean lots of things. It does not look like the Amish feel like they are dying in significant numbers. They seem quite relaxed.

I think a lot of focus is on deaths, people are worried about long term effects of the vaccine yet are willing to risk the long term effects of covid, which from all accounts is quite bad 

[Frylock]

12 minutes ago, vladorion said:

There is no evidence that it would be a disaster. Some countries have barely any restrictions and no mask mandates and I don't see a disaster happening there. It's not much different from the pre-'pandemic' times.

Care to tell us what countries are doing fine with no resteictions? You do realize that there is an excess mortality gap in nearly,every country since the pandemic started, right? And you do realize that developing countries and crooked countries (Russia, North Korea) are heavily underreporting their cases, right?

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-tracker

Hell, at one point North Dakota was the per capita COVID hotspot of the world, and they didn't have any restrictions. And that's a sparsely populated chunk of land.

Edited April 3, 2021 by Frylock

[vladorion]

9 minutes ago, Consept said:

What countries have had hardly any restrictions? 

Belarus, Sweden. 

[Frylock]

7 minutes ago, vladorion said:

Belarus, Sweden. 

From the link above I posted: "Countries in northern Europe have generally experienced much lower mortality rates. Some Nordic nations have experienced almost no excess deaths at all. The exception is Sweden, which imposed some of the continent’s least restrictive social-distancing measures during the first wave."

[vladorion]

14 minutes ago, Frylock said:

Care to tell us what countries are doing fine with no resteictions? You do realize that there is an excess mortality gap in nearly,every country since the pandemic started, right? And you do realize that developing countries and crooked countries (Russia, North Korea) are heavily underreporting their cases, right?

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-tracker

Hell, at one point North Dakota was the per capita COVID hotspot of the world, and they didn't have any restrictions. And that's a sparsely populated chunk of land.

I'm not arguing that there is no new virus that is killing some people.

[vladorion]

1 minute ago, Frylock said:

From the link above I posted: "Countries in northern Europe have generally experienced much lower mortality rates. Some Nordic nations have experienced almost no excess deaths at all. The exception is Sweden, which imposed some of the continent’s least restrictive social-distancing measures during the first wave."

Belarus is not a nordic nation. And again, I'm not saying anywhere that there's no virus that can kill some people. But it doesn't look like lockdowns and mask mandates are making a big difference in stopping it.

[Epikur]

6 minutes ago, vladorion said:

Belarus is not a nordic nation. And again, I'm not saying anywhere that there's no virus that can kill some people. But it doesn't look like lockdowns and mask mandates are making a big difference in stopping it.

Except in far east asia there is a big difference

[Consept]

16 minutes ago, vladorion said:

Belarus is not a nordic nation. And again, I'm not saying anywhere that there's no virus that can kill some people. But it doesn't look like lockdowns and mask mandates are making a big difference in stopping it.

But roughly speaking the countries that had the quickest and strictest measures seem to have fared the best ie China, South Korea and other far east nations. The ones that took the least measures or didn't take it seriously initially have fared the worst ie Brazil, USA etc Sweden have a death rate around 10x that of their close neighbors, they are the outlier in that region. 

So looking at that I would say the measures had some effect 

[Frylock]

1 hour ago, vladorion said:

Belarus is not a nordic nation. And again, I'm not saying anywhere that there's no virus that can kill some people. But it doesn't look like lockdowns and mask mandates are making a big difference in stopping it.

Did you even click on the link? It also calls out Belarus as having a high excess mortality rate: "Among former republics of the Soviet Union, only Belarus suffered substantial excess mortality in the first wave, after introducing almost no constraints on daily life. The second wave affected almost every country in the region. Russia now has one of the world’s largest excess-mortality gaps. It recorded about 370,000 more deaths than expected between April and December, compared with an official covid-19 toll of only 56,000."

You're proven wrong again and again. I could understand if this was March 2020 and you're saying this stuff, but we're well over a year into this and you're spouting stupid nonsense. Learn about the freaking virus already and how it spreads, FFS. Educate yourself, there's no excuse to be this ignorant.

Sorry if I'm coming across as rude. I just have little patience for people who speak against the science at this point in the pandemic.

Edited April 3, 2021 by Frylock

[BadHippie]

@Consept

There are to many factors to count in to make assumptions like this. China uses a different test than the US or Germany for example... Which leads to less cases than the Drosten PCR-test. 

Also in Sweden there is no excess mortality, if you count in all the relevant factors. https://reitschuster.de/post/der-schwedische-weg-was-die-zahlen-sagen/ (The article is in German sadly, but you should be able to read the math). Basically he counted in factors like people getting older, there being no strong-flu season in the last few years and so on. In the end there is no significant excess mortality. 

[Consept]

42 minutes ago, BadHippie said:

There are to many factors to count in to make assumptions like this. China uses a different test than the US or Germany for example... Which leads to less cases than the Drosten PCR-test.

Does China use a different to test to check deaths. Excess deaths have been high everywhere. 

But anyway on a more meta point, why are you fighting so hard to prove covid is nothing to worry about? At the very least I don't think you can be 100% sure of this given the current evidence and science. The repurcussions of being wrong on this can be severe as we've seen with trump in America, so why is this battle so important to you?