Why does Leo give pick up tips?

[JJfromSwitzerland]

The best video or information I ever watched about dating is this one:

But now I look into this forum and some men ask for help in their dating life and I see Leo answering with some
basic pick up information. Isn't this contradiction?

For me the best game is no game

[Leo Gura]

"There is no path, but only a fool doesn't walk it." -- Zen saying

[flowboy]

It's not a contradiction but it definitely seems like one.

 

It depends what stage you are at. The typical guy that needs pickup advice badly, has problems acting in alignment with what he authentically wants (i.e. take action and lead / kiss the girl et cetera).

But you can't tell him to "be himself", because he has a false belief that he is someone who doesn't take that kind of action. Such guys first need to unwire the identification with being non-assertive.

The way you unwire someone's identification with a behavior, is by making them do the behavior that contradicts that belief. (i.e. pickup tips)

Then something opens up, and they have to expand their idea of self, being someone who is able to take action, or not to.

This creates space for them to move and actually be their authentic self. Take action when they want, don't take action when they don't want.

 

Example:

1. I tell myself every day in my mind: "I'm just not a person who would approach a girl like that."
2. You or Leo tells me to approach a girl like that
3. The identification is broken, because now I can't tell myself that anymore. I now have to tell myself a new story: "Sometimes I approach girls like that, sometimes I don't"
4. Now my authentic desires have a way of expressing themselves through me.

[JJfromSwitzerland]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

"There is no path, but only a fool doesn't walk it." -- Zen saying

Mmmh ok... to be honest, I don't really understand that quote lol. Or I should say, I don't understand it yet!

[JJfromSwitzerland]

3 hours ago, flowboy said:

It's not a contradiction but it definitely seems like one.

 

It depends what stage you are at. The typical guy that needs pickup advice badly, has problems acting in alignment with what he authentically wants (i.e. take action and lead / kiss the girl et cetera).

But you can't tell him to "be himself", because he has a false belief that he is someone who doesn't take that kind of action. Such guys first need to unwire the identification with being non-assertive.

The way you unwire someone's identification with a behavior, is by making them do the behavior that contradicts that belief. (i.e. pickup tips)

Then something opens up, and they have to expand their idea of self, being someone who is able to take action, or not to.

This creates space for them to move and actually be their authentic self. Take action when they want, don't take action when they don't want.

 

Example:

1. I tell myself every day in my mind: "I'm just not a person who would approach a girl like that."
2. You or Leo tells me to approach a girl like that
3. The identification is broken, because now I can't tell myself that anymore. I now have to tell myself a new story: "Sometimes I approach girls like that, sometimes I don't"
4. Now my authentic desires have a way of expressing themselves through me.

3 hours ago, flowboy said:

It's not a contradiction but it definitely seems like one.

 

It depends what stage you are at. The typical guy that needs pickup advice badly, has problems acting in alignment with what he authentically wants (i.e. take action and lead / kiss the girl et cetera).

But you can't tell him to "be himself", because he has a false belief that he is someone who doesn't take that kind of action. Such guys first need to unwire the identification with being non-assertive.

The way you unwire someone's identification with a behavior, is by making them do the behavior that contradicts that belief. (i.e. pickup tips)

Then something opens up, and they have to expand their idea of self, being someone who is able to take action, or not to.

This creates space for them to move and actually be their authentic self. Take action when they want, don't take action when they don't want.

 

Example:

1. I tell myself every day in my mind: "I'm just not a person who would approach a girl like that."
2. You or Leo tells me to approach a girl like that
3. The identification is broken, because now I can't tell myself that anymore. I now have to tell myself a new story: "Sometimes I approach girls like that, sometimes I don't"
4. Now my authentic desires have a way of expressing themselves through me.

Ok, yes you have some points

[wwhy]

Because he is just a dude?

Yes, I know he says he is god, and we are all also god, so what does that really mean? Back to square one!

[JJfromSwitzerland]

5 minutes ago, wwhy said:

Because he is just a dude?

Yes, I know he says he is god, and we are all also god, so what does that really mean? Back to square one!

Ok but the video I posted "how to be a real man pt 2" has nothing to do with we are god or spirituality as I understand. It basically says be your authentic self but then Leo gives the normal pick up advices as well which are not necessarly the same as being your authentic self. This was my question/confusion.

My way which works for me in my dating life is I approach women and then I don't listen to pick up or dating advices anymore, I just text or call when I want and I can say it works for me. I am pretty happy with my dates and sex life. Of course not with every woman I can have dates or whatever cause it's a number's game but I try to be authentic, sometimes it works, sometimes not.

I think @flowboy answered my question pretty well.

[wwhy]

hmmm...  so when Leo is talking about "picking up girls" he is not being his "authentic self"?

Where did you get that from? How do you know what Leo being his "authentic self" feels and sound like? Are you Leo?

[JJfromSwitzerland]

4 minutes ago, wwhy said:

hmmm...  so when Leo is talking about "picking up girls" he is not being his "authentic self"?

Where did you get that from? How do you know what Leo being his "authentic self" feels and sound like? Are you Leo?

I am Leo cause it's all one - god. Joke lol, of course I don't know what his "authentic self" is.

Ok maybe you have a point, I don't know. For me I just don't like listening to too much pick up advice so that's why I really resonated
with the video "how to be a man pt 2" but then I got confused cause Leo still gives these kind of advices and I thought, they are not authentic
but since I don't know him that good, I can't tell if they are authentic or not.

For me this Pick-up says all women are like that and you have to act like this and then you get her to sleep with you but in my expierience this just doesn't work because every human being is different. Maybe I missunderstood pick up?

What works for me is be open, talk to many people, approach many women, be self confident with yourself and your style and you get the women who want you for being you. But I am just a random dude hehe

[wwhy]

No, you are not Leo. You are not me either... and following the same train-wreck logic. If you are both Leo and me, why the urge to respond...

Please don't even go there...

You are making two mistakes. One is putting Leo up on a pedestial (afterall, if we are all god, then whats so special about what leo does or says?)

Two, is putting women on a pedestial. They are just dudes with vaginas, same needs, intelligence and weaknesses that you do. Meaning, just because she decides to go home with you, does not mean you are special, saved or validated. No human in this planet is ever going to save or validate you. If they could, the great pickup artists would not keep picking up and searching for whats not there.

 

[JJfromSwitzerland]

4 minutes ago, wwhy said:

No, you are not Leo. You are not me either... and following the same train-wreck logic. If you are both Leo and me, why the urge to respond...

Please don't even go there...

You are making two mistakes. One is putting Leo up on a pedestial (afterall, if we are all god, then whats so special about what leo does or says?)

Two, is putting women on a pedestial. They are just dudes with vaginas, same needs, intelligence and weaknesses that you do. Meaning, just because she decides to go home with you, does not mean you are special, saved or validated. No human in this planet is ever going to save or validate you. If they could, the great pickup artists would not keep picking up and searching for whats not there.

 

Why do you think I put Leo on a pedestial only because I appreciate that video of Leo?

Why do you think I put women on a pedestial? Where did I say because they go home with me sometimes, I am special?

These are assumptions you make about me but you don't even know me, the only thing you know about me is what I posted here. I also don't make assumptions about you.

[wwhy]

I stand by my assumptions.

If they are wrong, then say so! But do not ask me why I make them... that's my intuition.

And I've no idea how that works.

[JJfromSwitzerland]

2 minutes ago, wwhy said:

I stand by my assumptions.

If they are wrong, then say so! But do not ask me why I make them... that's my intuition.

And I've no idea how that works.

Ok to be honest I do sometimes put what Leo says on a pedestial cause some videos helped me but maybe I should stop.

With women I don't know if I put them on a pedestial, if so, I am not aware that I put them on a pedestial. I just enjoy the company of
women I am attracted to.

[wwhy]

10 minutes ago, JJfromSwitzerland said:

With women I don't know if I put them on a pedestial, if so, I am not aware that I put them on a pedestial. I just enjoy the company of
women I am attracted to.

Here is a tip. If your sense of self worth depends on how many random strangers with vaginas you've convinced to go home with you, then you are putting them on a pedestial. And they often sense it, and no one wants the burden of being exptected to save someone else. Deep down, we all know that the only person who can unconditionally love and save you, is you.

Edited April 2, 2021 by wwhy

[Farnaby]

@JJfromSwitzerland I agree with you. Pickup strategies may be useful to get some fiele experience and shed some limiting beliefs. 

But like any other "system" it can't encompass the complexity of human interaction.

I prefer to stay as far away as possible from manipulative strategies and instead learn how to be in my body, express myself freely, etc. 

[The0Self]

If you've never been into pickup, you didn't "dodge a bullet," you missed out. IME/IMO, you need to get that phase behind you -- it's an important stage of development for men to both master and transcend.

[JJfromSwitzerland]

4 minutes ago, The0Self said:

 

4 minutes ago, The0Self said:

If you've never been into pickup, you didn't "dodge a bullet," you missed out. IME/IMO, you need to get that phase behind you -- it's an important stage of development for men to both master and transcend.

So you say, I should start pick-up now so that I can overcome it later to transcend?

[JJfromSwitzerland]

9 minutes ago, Farnaby said:

9 minutes ago, Farnaby said:

 

@JJfromSwitzerland I agree with you. Pickup strategies may be useful to get some fiele experience and shed some limiting beliefs. 

But like any other "system" it can't encompass the complexity of human interaction.

I prefer to stay as far away as possible from manipulative strategies and instead learn how to be in my body, express myself freely, etc. 

yes, so somebody who has they same view as me;)

[JJfromSwitzerland]

@wwhy I know

[Lyubov]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

"There is no path, but only a fool doesn't walk it." -- Zen saying

can you do an updated video on how to be a man / embodying masculine energy / attract women, if you're interested in it (2-3 hour multi part one)?