Difficulty in understand what exactly causes women to lose interest.

[Preety_India]

19 hours ago, KGrimes said:

here comes the confusion, Mark Manson's book How to attract women through honesty explains that vulnerability is the number one thing a man should have when trying to attract a girl, vulnerability shows that you are not afraid to show your weaknesses, and that you know them, and you are not afraid to be rejected for that. So what you recommend now, is to simply never show my vulnerable side and simply outright lie or hide them? That creates even more issues. And what is security anyway? Secure in my situation in life? Secure in my lifestyle? I already enjoy everything BESIDES my relationships with women, that by far is my most lack aspect of my whole life. I can be friends and find ways to interact to women no problem, moving on to a relationship of any kind besides friends is where I am stuck.

This is not true in my experience. I can't speak of other's experiences because I'm not a guy. I have never liked a man or been attracted to a guy who has been vulnerable with me. So I can only speak from my own experience and from a couple of women who I have interacted with. Most women that I know are put off by vulnerability 

I don't like to lie to appear good. I can sit here and easily lie and say that I love when a man is vulnerable. But that's not the truth. 

 

[Eternity]

I think Rendheaven pretty much summed it up.  You've been giving these women confusing messages.  Waiting until they show some interest and then backing off sends a signal that you don't want to pursue a close relationship with her, which then completely turns her off and puts you in her safe zone, the friend zone.  Never turn off the charm just she's showing interest.  She has no more wish to have her heart stomped on than you do.  So if she's showing interest, ask her out.  Let her know you enjoy her company.  Bring her a rose (one pink or red rose is equal to a whole bouquet in a woman's mind), think about what she has said to you.  She's dropping clues about things she likes.   Let her know you picked up on them.  If Starbuck's mocha is her thing or chai tea then bring her a cup.

As far as the idea of dating a whole herd of women at once, somewhere along the line you are going to have to juggle woman and that gets tricky as well as forces you into dishonestly.  A woman who is romantically attracted does not want to hear that she's only one of many.  That will shut things down pretty fast and isn't taking her needs or concerns into account.  Dishonesty btw is allowing the ego to lead you around by the nose.  These games of playing on the side of the ego will short circuit your spiritual progress.  Jesus said you can't serve two masters.  Either you become schackled to one or to the other but you cannot serve both.  Jesus said quite a few wise things.  As Leo  pointed out you would not base a business on just one customer.  Botoh, if you are offering deals to everyone and hiding those other deals so your prize customer doesn't find out, you are liable to lose that special customer as well as your reputation of being a fair and trustworthy business leader.  So take your chances.  I hope whatever you do will work out well for you.

[Leo Gura]

On 3/31/2021 at 7:25 AM, Rishabh R said:

Leo , how to get a girlfriend if I am constantly friendzoned with every girl I meet ?

The only reason you get friendzoned is that you are not communicating with these women from the start with sexual intent. You must change the attitude and style of your conversations to being man-woman -- sexually charged.

That does not mean you have to say anything sexual. But just by the way you look at her she should feel that if she ever gets alone in a room with you, you will rip off her panties and nail her ass to the wall. Nothing needs to be said. It's your attitude. Look at her like you are a hungry wolf and she is a rabbit. She will feel that and you will never get friend-zoned again. You may get rejected however. But rejection is good, it means she feels your intent and it's just not the right match.

You need to project your masculine intent more. Don't hold it back. If you get turned on by a woman, let her feel it rather than hiding it from her. Your being turned on will turn her on. This is a huge part of learning game. You stop apologizing and hiding your sexual attraction.

On 3/31/2021 at 10:22 PM, KGrimes said:

 

@Leo Gura Do you think getting rid of this approach anxiety/ insecurity is a way towards better life and higher-consciousness? It is something that I have been debating for a long time, I just can't understand, how important reality is in the end. If I finally make the realization (i already know this, but i have not felt it) that I am god, I am conciousness, then it sort of eliminates the need for sex and relationships, doesn't it? Other part of me wants to just spread joy, love and enjoy this dream together with someone else, who also understand atleast spirituality in-general.

No, God does not elminate the need for sex or relationships. You will be as horny as you always were after awakening. And you will still probably want to relate with people in intimate ways.

There is nothing wrong with seeking intimacy. Go for it. Awakening will not solve this part of your life.

Yes, getting rid of dating insecurity, learning to lead, and getting in touch with your masculine edge is all very important for a man. You can't really live a good life without it. The pursuit of women makes men stronger men. Which is a good thing. In the same way that a lion who cannot hunt is a pathetic animal.

17 hours ago, Heaven said:

@Leo Gura I love you out of very selfish reasons?

A devil knows no other way

[Farnaby]

@Leo Gura while I think you're completely right about not hiding your sexual attraction and let her feel it, IMO what you said is going a bit overboard. 

IME it has to be done in a balanced and calibrated way. She should feel that you desire her sexually AND that you aren't desperately horny, so that she can feel safe and respected. 

The most important part is getting out of your head and learning to read social clues so that you don't become too passive but not too aggressive either. 

There are no black/white rules though. Some women probably like the more aggressive approach that Leo suggested. The problem with that is that it's easy to be perceived as a creep if it's not calibrated.

[wwhy]

A woman looses interest the second you act like one of her girlfriends. If she is an idiot, she may still think, act and believe like she is looking for a man just like one of her girlfriends. Ahaaaahaahaaahaaa! The practical jokes God play on us....

[KGrimes]

@The0Self @DaveB Isn't PUA/redpill and approaching overall just a waste of time when pursuing spirituality and higher consciousness? Seems like it's simply trying to feed your ego more, rather than being conscious or spiritual? I was interested in PUA/Redpill years ago, was doing approaching and so on, got results, but in the end the amount of work did not justify the means, I was still unhappy. I found spirituality/psychadelics/meditation and mindfulness to bring me the most joy in life, and seems like I just need to include that into my relationships somehow, but if pua and approaching is truly the way to it, then I guess I need to work on that before I can work on spirituality.

 

@flowboy We had a couple nights out were we drank some wine after work and ordered some food, discussed some serious topics, I gave her some of my insights about spirituality and consciousness, gave her a few books, like Power of Now, I also motivated her to get a new job. Overall is just general banter and begging, we laugh a lot and discuss various topics, and we are fairly open to each other. I gave her a few hints about going out to a few places when covid is over, she was quite happy about that. She came to my house as well, I did not even invite her, but seems like she went colder after that.

@Byun Sean Explict as in straight up tell her I like her, or just give her compliments? Feels like I have done all of that plenty of times already, perhaps I simply missed my time of action.

@Preety_India  Alright, seems fair, so what would you actually call vulnerability though? Showing your weaknesses/stress and so on is obviously a no-no, what I mean by vulnerability, is putting yourself on the edge in saying that I like you, and I am aware that you may or may not feel the same, and I am fine with both answers, but I still want you to know this?

@Leo Gura Thank you, I really needed this answer. My road to spirituality was somewhat fueled by my loneliness. I thought that maybe if I find God / become enlightened, I will no longer seek relationships and I could live my life a recluse, even if that idea is not something I am happy with. A lot of spiritual teachers constantly talk about love and sex as a desire, and that you need to get rid of it, I always found this somewhat confusing, because for me a good relationship and love seems like what would make this dream extremely enjoyable, rather than just seeking to become a recluse and meditate in a cave alone for 30 years, obviously, the guy meditating in the cave for 30 years may reach a higher purpose, but seems like most of the enlightened masters have a partner, for example, Matt Kahn, Rupert Spira or Peter Ralston.

Leo, after all your experiences, would you still consider your path through pick-up and PUA to be the right one(not assuming there is just one right path, of course)? Do you think most men should learn how to be good with women first when pursuing spirituality?

[flowboy]

27 minutes ago, KGrimes said:

@flowboy We had a couple nights out were we drank some wine after work and ordered some food, discussed some serious topics, I gave her some of my insights about spirituality and consciousness, gave her a few books, like Power of Now, I also motivated her to get a new job. Overall is just general banter and begging, we laugh a lot and discuss various topics, and we are fairly open to each other. I gave her a few hints about going out to a few places when covid is over, she was quite happy about that. She came to my house as well, I did not even invite her, but seems like she went colder after that.

So... why didn't you kiss her or have sex with her on one of those nights?

What did you expect would happen if you don't make a move?

They lose interest, of course.

Not making a move after being given a couple of opportunities, causes women to lose interest.

Especially when the opportunities are as obvious as her showing up to your house.

If you can't take the hint even when she shows up at your house, then there's nothing more she can do, is there?

Edited April 2, 2021 by flowboy

[KGrimes]

@flowboy Good question. When i mentally go back to the moment, I remember that I was not feeling a lot of sexual attraction in that moment, and was not too serious about it. So that kind of explains it I guess, it was me who rejected her all a long, just not actively, but more passively. Instead of kissing her or having sex with her I explained her how the universe is a dream and that we are all God, lol.

[flowboy]

@KGrimes  Cool, so now you know!

Making a move isn't a must. Only when you feel like it

[Leo Gura]

8 hours ago, Farnaby said:

IME it has to be done in a balanced and calibrated way.

Obviously.

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, KGrimes said:

Leo, after all your experiences, would you still consider your path through pick-up and PUA to be the right one(not assuming there is just one right path, of course)?

For me it was of momumental importance. It was not about the sex. It was about my growth into a man.

Quote

Do you think most men should learn how to be good with women first when pursuing spirituality?

In practice, yes. The order of operations is: become skillful at survival, then transcend survival.

For a few exceptionally gifted people this order of operations is not needed, but for most people it is. It is hard to be serious about spiritual work when you are horny and lonely and craving it.

[Karmadhi]

@Leo Gura Can't you do both at the same time? I mean no matter how busy you are dealing with survival, you can have 30 minutes each day to meditate for example and read some books. Yes you will not become enlightened but doing these things for years will make you more developed than most people out there. The PUA community actually supports meditation and reading books.

 

[Cepzeu]

@Karmadhi It will be difficult in practice to focus on two things at once. Pursuing enlightenment requires dedication, because distractions will greatly slow down the process. 

And you can do it in reverse. I have done it to an extent. I focussed on spirituality seriously for about 4 years while I was studying in university. This resulted in my awakening. Although there are many facets to it, awakening to yourself as God/Love/Your True Nature is a huge step. You can keep pursuing different facets but an awakening to Truth is a significant one in my opinion. 

In my experience, once you realise your true nature and your true reason for being here, you just go and play and enjoy existence. Thanks to Leo, I was able to get to that point. 

I'm currently 24. I still pursue career, wealth, relationships and a "good" life. But deep down I know this is all a dream. I am also aware that at the time of my "physical" death I will melt into an infinite void of love, so I am no longer scared of death. 

Obviously there is still the issue of embodying the insights I have, but that's what life is all about, and I look forward to it.

[Emerald]

What might be happening is that you approach women acting one way and try to "game" the situation to where you're likely to get an affirmative response. You may be doing this consciously or unconsciously.

And then, as you start to get comfortable, you start to show your actual personality. And because the person was attracted to you for the facade/game, once they see the real you they will begin feeling differently.

If this is the case, my advice is to watch for inauthentic behaviors that you're employing consciously or unconsciously to avoid rejection... and to do your very best to lead fully with your unique authentic personality.

That will be your best beacon towards women who are your type (which is what women are really looking for)... as opposed to playing to whatever you think the given woman will want and then not being able to maintain the facade. 

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

@Leo Gura Can't you do both at the same time? I mean no matter how busy you are dealing with survival, you can have 30 minutes each day to meditate for example and read some books. Yes you will not become enlightened but doing these things for years will make you more developed than most people out there. The PUA community actually supports meditation and reading books.

Of course you can meditate a bit every day. But in practice you will not break through from such pathetically weak practices.

If you are serious about breaking through via meditation, you need to schedule some 10 day retreats at least, and meditate all day long like a motherfucker.

The PUA community don't know shit about awakening or how to achieve it. Nor do they care. If you follow them you will never awaken. On the other hand, they can get you laid

There is definitely a trade-off between sex and awakening. Choose your priorities wisely.

[AtheisticNonduality]

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There is definitely a trade-off between sex and awakening. Choose your priorities wisely.

I once heard a tale about how Aleister Crowley would "impregnate" men during rituals in order to achieve spiritual transcendence. So, maybe not necessarily.

[lmfao]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

There is definitely a trade-off between sex and awakening. Choose your priorities wisely.

The implication being that sex and the such is perhaps in the world of carnal desire and survival

Quote

In practice, yes. The order of operations is: become skillful at survival, then transcend survival.

I think this paradigm somewhat breaks when you're thrown into lots of suffering, can't cope and heal with ordinary methods in the world. And so I'm forced to become spiritual since nothing else is strong enough to help.

Not forced, just it's the thing to do

Edited April 3, 2021 by lmfao

[Byun Sean]

10 hours ago, KGrimes said:

@Byun Sean Explict as in straight up tell her I like her, or just give her compliments? Feels like I have done all of that plenty of times already, perhaps I simply missed my time of action.

Like be explicit asap and ask her out on a date.

The faster the better. 

Women put people in two boxes. If you wait too long you automatically end up in the friend/ acquaintance box.

[wwhy]

15 hours ago, Farnaby said:

IME it has to be done in a balanced and calibrated way. She should feel that you desire her sexually AND that you aren't desperately horny, so that she can feel safe and respected. 

 

Do not overthink it. Know what you want, and respectfully go for it. Do not make any apologies or excuses for your needs. So what if you're desperately horny? Be desperate. Be horny. Embrace the feeling, especially if it makes you uncomfortable. Whatever you resist.. persists and just grows stronger. A mans desire to sexually connect with a woman is natural, healthy and normal. Do not ever apologize, or feel guilty or ashamed for that.

Edited April 3, 2021 by wwhy

[WaveInTheOcean]

On 2.4.2021 at 2:50 AM, Preety_India said:

Don't you think there's a difference in being vulnerable with confidence exuding self-love, and then being vulnerable in a needy, victim-like way?