Difficulty in understand what exactly causes women to lose interest.

[KGrimes]

I need some help from you guys, I have been trying to figure this out for quite a few years now and always fail to exactly identify what it is that drives women away from  being interested to sort of losing sexual attraction within some time frame.

Im 23 now, women have always been a problem for me, as I have not had any long-term relationships in the past, and most of the time I was going from "it's better to be alone" to "im missing out", When I had shorter relationships, it was not exactly "it".

Now the problem that i frequently find myself in, is becoming to attached or too needy with the "idea" of that good relationship, a woman who will love me, who will be interested in the same things as I am, and will allow me to work on myself. When I find women who I like, i go from acting uninterested from time to time, to slowly building up, and seeing the attraction from them wash away. 

I have done the attachment test, and found out im Anxious - Preoccupied type, which actually helped me realize a lot of things, and I started working on them. However, i have one example of a relationship that sometimes drives me crazy and seems like it's a circle that I am stuck in, and it goes like this:

1. I meet ( or at the writting of this post, i a have me a woman who is a co-worker)

2. I slowly build attraction for her.

3. I notice subtle signs of her attraction to me.

4. I continue to act not too interested, but I do try to 'hit on her' from time to time.

5. I start getting attached, start thinking about her a lot, and imagining how the relationship would be.

6. Nothing happens.

7. She starts losing attraction.

8. I stay in the friendzone.

 

Now, I have worked on my outer game for years, I am generally good looking and never had any girl reject me due to how I look, perhaps it could have been my height, but I never got a direct rejection due to my height. That means it's got to be something I say, or how I carry myself after sometime.

 

I've been reading Mark Mansons book - Models now, and i tried to open up to this girl showing vulnerabiltiy, but it simply seems like she lost interest, but started complaining to me how lonely she is and how she can't meet a decent man anymore, so now I start to get these feelings of neediness, anger and even sadness.

No matter how much work I put in, books i read, meditation i do, and so on I just cant seem to figure out my problem with women. I have made tremendous process in the past 6 months towards my self-development in spirituality, thanks to Leo, but women and my psychological traumas STILL remain the big obstacle, that limits me from reaching higher stages not only in spirituality, but also in my daily life. I feel that I have two options here: to completely go celibate and avoid women for the rest of my life until I become enlightened, or I deal with my issues with women, build confidence, secure attachment and then move on to enlightment work.

 

If there's anyone out here, who could help me out, I would be extremelly grateful, thank you.
 

[Gesundheit]

@KGrimes You are fine. You just lack the abundance mindset, and thus all the neediness and attachment. Play the numbers game and create abundance instead of focusing all your attention on one girl at a time. You need to have options and communicate that to her subconsciously. As long as she is your only option, you will be perceived by her as low value, which is unattractive. You don't necessarily have to be dating other girls, but you must have the ability to leave the girl you're interested in. That'll subcommunicate to her that you are confident and high value. She needs to know that you are capable of dating other girls. You might also benefit from learning how to push and pull through trial and error.

Edited March 31, 2021 by Gesundheit
Underlined addition

[Leo Gura]

@KGrimes Your problem is very simple, you are hitting on too few girls. When your numbers are so low you will constantly be frustrated because the reality is that this is a numbers games. If you hit on 5 girls a year, chances are that none of them will pan out no matter how good you are. If you hit on 1000 girls per year, now you'll get some results.

Talk to more girls. Don't expect any one of them to pan out. Don't focus on attracting any one girl -- that's just a recipe for misery. Girls will be extremely fickle and flakey until they sleep with you. So the trick is to hit on lots of girls and don't hold your breath for anyone particular one to sleep with you. Majority of them won't.

It's just like sales. It is foolish to hinge your entire business on one customer. Your business should be structured such that you are so busy no particular customer matters. You shouldn't need any customer's business and you should be willing to lose it without a hint of threat to your business.

The paradox is that when you structure your business this way, more people will want to buy from you. And more girls will want to sleep with you.

That's creating abundance vs being stuck in scarcity. It's counter-intuitive and girls will tell you they don't want that. But practice they love it because it os am honest signal of a high value guy. A high value guy has lots of options and girls can smell it and they LOVE the smell even though they will deny it if explicitly asked about it.

[StarStruck]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

@KGrimes Your problem is very simple, you are hitting on too few girls. When your numbers are so low you will constantly be frustrated because the reality is that this is a numbers games. If you hit on 5 girls a year, chances are that none of them will pan out no matter how good you are. If you hit on 1000 girls per year, now you'll get some results.

Talk to more girls. Don't expect any one of them to pan out. Don't focus on attracting any one girl -- that's just a recipe for misery. Girls will be extremely fickle and flakey until they sleep with you. So the trick is to hit on lots of girls and don't hold your breath for anyone particular one to sleep with you. Majority of them won't.

It's just like sales. It is foolish to hinge your entire business on one customer. Your business should be structured such that you are so busy no particular customer matters. You shouldn't need any customer's business and you should be willing to lose it without a hint of threat to your business.

The paradox is that when you structure your business this way, more people will want to buy from you. And more girls will want to sleep with you.

That's creating abundance vs being stuck in scarcity. It's counter-intuitive and girls will tell you they don't want that. But practice they love it because it os am honest signal of a high value guy. A high value guy has lots of options and girls can smell it and they LOVE the smell even though they will deny it if explicitly asked about it.

Is it right to say: have to intention of getting her but not the expectation of things working out?

[Sine]

Probably you should work on making your life situation more attractive for girls/a potential partner to be part of. I think that is a big deal when dating. I have experienced multiple times to find a guy really attractive both physically and emotionally but when I evaluate how a relationship would be in the long term, his way of life is not one compatible for a partnership - so maybe that could be it.  

[Preety_India]

Sometimes we have to accept the fact that some people just don't get attracted. 

Attraction is not a constant thing. 

A few tips - 

-Don't focus on keeping attraction. It can be frustrating. If it's not working then it's not working 

-keep approaching more without losing hope

- Don't be vulnerable to women. It's a turn off. 

- be a protector. 

-act secure in your ways. Women like the feeling of security. 

- women are a bit complicated. It's just the truth. We as women also find difficulty in maintaining friendships with other women. Anything happens and women stop talking for no good reason. So the problem is not always you. Women can be difficult to deal with in general. 

They suffer a ton of insecurities and never seem to choose a guy and in the end when they do, it's generally some asshole who knew how to manipulate them. 

Women don't easily give into basic demands or gestures of affection. Because they find it difficult to reciprocate. They need polarity. 

But even polarity can only go so far. 

Don't beat yourself up. It's generally not your fault. 

 

 

[Farnaby]

@KGrimes First of all, I think there are a lot of factors (many of which are unconscious) that play a role in maintaining attraction. I say this because like you I tend to think that I'm the one doing it wrong, but it's usually more complex than that and there could be many things happening in those girls lifes that have nothing to do with you. 

Reading your post, my guess is that insecurity could be playing an important role here. 

You seem to have "worked on yourself" a lot in order to achieve a goal: become more attractive. It seems like this is coming from a place of insecurity and a core belief of "I'm not good enough the way I am". Anything you try to change about yourself from that place will eventually stop working because the root cause isn't healed (the feeling of not being good enough). It actually strengthens that core belief because by trying to be more attractive you're rejecting how you are right now.

Basically, your self-worth/self-esteem seems to be very dependant on a girl feeling attracted to you and that could be creating neediness. If she's attracted to you, you feel good, confidence, etc. If she isn't or if the attraction fades, you lose that confidence. 

It happens to most of us.

This is just my guess though and it probably isn't the only factor.

Edited March 31, 2021 by Farnaby

[Nahm]

10 hours ago, KGrimes said:

I need

Slow down. Start with what is true, then proceed. 

Your inner monologue = your life. 

Do you comb your hair by holding the comb against the mirror?

[Rishabh R]

Leo , how to get a girlfriend if I am constantly friendzoned with every girl I meet ?

[RendHeaven]

10 hours ago, KGrimes said:

1. I meet ( or at the writting of this post, i a have me a woman who is a co-worker)

2. I slowly build attraction for her.

3. I notice subtle signs of her attraction to me.

4. I continue to act not too interested, but I do try to 'hit on her' from time to time.

5. I start getting attached, start thinking about her a lot, and imagining how the relationship would be.

6. Nothing happens.

7. She starts losing attraction.

8. I stay in the friendzone.

You have no spine.

You play to not-lose, you don't play to win.

Hence, you never get outright rejected, but you also don't get the girl.

Try this:

1. Meet.

2. Slowly build attraction for her (aka interact with her).

3. Flirt. Don't constantly scan if she likes you or not, that comes from fear. Share your energy and don't give a fuck.

4. YOU MUST INDICATE INTREST. No shit she friendzones you. You friendzoned yourself to begin with lmao. By not showing any interest (again, out of fear of rejection) you're basically screaming "I'M YOUR GAY BEST FRIEND!"

5. Lead. Someone has to make shit happen. This is a logical inevitability. Between the two of you, if you are to ever get together, one of you has to step up and take a risk. Right? Well, it'll never be the girl. It's in her nature to be passive and subtle. I know in your mind you wish she would make shit happen for you. But what if she's thinking the same thing? You goof.

6. Things happen.

At the end of the day, it's between taking a risk for the possibility of reward, or the guarantee that nothing will ever happen. Stop being afraid of failing!

 

[KGrimes]

First of all, thanks for so many replies, seems like what I knew deep inside is true, just needed more clarification from other point of view, and it seems that my insecurities, and fear or rejection is what constantly does not let me take the final step in leading the way to attraction, unless the girl is more leading or gives me obvious signs.

@Gesundheit Before Covid, i was doing quite a bit of approaching, sometimes it would lead to numbers, sometimes to dates, never to any relationship. Since i went through constant development and rejection, naturally i felt like i just kept failing and nothing works, so back to the drawing board.

@Leo Gura Do you think getting rid of this approach anxiety/ insecurity is a way towards better life and higher-consciousness? It is something that I have been debating for a long time, I just can't understand, how important reality is in the end. If I finally make the realization (i already know this, but i have not felt it) that I am god, I am conciousness, then it sort of eliminates the need for sex and relationships, doesn't it? Other part of me wants to just spread joy, love and enjoy this dream together with someone else, who also understand atleast spirituality in-general.

@Sine The funny thing is, that sometimes I feel like I have worked so hard on having this "attractive lifestyle" that some women told me they feel bad since I make them look like they have not achieved anything. I have studied abroad, i have done student exchange programmes, I travelled, i saved money and purchased a car, I lived a lone for a long time, I have been working out and living semi-healthy lifestyle for a long time, I also used to love to party a lot and go out, for me, it looks like it's a good balance, but then again, it is my life so creating a general opinion about it is quite hard. On some dates, I end up simply talking too much about my life I guess.

@Preety_India here comes the confusion, Mark Manson's book How to attract women through honesty explains that vulnerability is the number one thing a man should have when trying to attract a girl, vulnerability shows that you are not afraid to show your weaknesses, and that you know them, and you are not afraid to be rejected for that. So what you recommend now, is to simply never show my vulnerable side and simply outright lie or hide them? That creates even more issues. And what is security anyway? Secure in my situation in life? Secure in my lifestyle? I already enjoy everything BESIDES my relationships with women, that by far is my most lack aspect of my whole life. I can be friends and find ways to interact to women no problem, moving on to a relationship of any kind besides friends is where I am stuck.

@Nahm Thank you Nahm, but my inner dialogue becomes the monkey mind when I am around others, especially women. I have reached states of awareness with bliss and simply pure knowing when im alone from time to time, but when I am around others, seems like most of my spirituality work gets overshadowed by other personalities.  Also, the more I work on myself, the more time i spend alone, the more I feel needy, the more I feel the need to find a relationship, and the more i start questioning every woman as if "is she the one i will have a relationship with?"

 

 @RendHeaven Alright, i get it, i knew it most of the time, I lack direct action towards explaining what I want from women, without being completely honest. My final question is, what should I do with this co-worker, since I feel like the sings of attraction from her are sort of gone, I am leaving the work soon, that means we wont see each other as often, i am debating on: a) finally tell a woman, that I like her and i care for her, and that if she would like to continue talking with me and see where this goes to, we should do so, and if she does not like me, we should go our separate ways. b) simply not tell her my feelings, and end the relationship right here, assuming she has no attraction to me, and that i do not want to be friendzoned again.

Thank you all for your replies!

[intotheblack]

2 hours ago, KGrimes said:

here comes the confusion, Mark Manson's book How to attract women through honesty explains that vulnerability is the number one thing a man should have when trying to attract a girl, vulnerability shows that you are not afraid to show your weaknesses, and that you know them, and you are not afraid to be rejected for that. So what you recommend now, is to simply never show my vulnerable side and simply outright lie or hide them?

@KGrimes  it all depends on context and situation to whether or not a girl will welcome it or be turned off by it, generally speaking. I shared a video about this on another thread

On 27/03/2021 at 4:26 PM, intotheblack said:

She talks about the confusion men go through with being told he should be vulnerable but then on the other hand that he should be emotionless. 

 

[IAmReallyImportant]

What I have understood so far

• women are basically simple, it just looks complicated, because they often add unnecessary layers of complexity
• I e.g. have higher priorities than relationships even if it could be nice. So it is easier for me  to see through.
• there is no formulary how to behave in situations
• They feel attracted if you are aligned with reality, focus on what you want, if you are inspired, detached, not afraid to show emotions but at the same time are dominant but not in the way of acting superior - more this strong energetic form of being and also a form of leading the situation without ignoring or dismissing the female. Also you have to be serious with relationships in terms of not using your partner for your advantage, but show real interest which only can be the case if your partner really fits your values and life-vision. You have to be charismatic, funny etc.. Not because you are some weird pickup guy but because you enjoy life anyways. This will attract for sure. But if you got this you don't really want a relationship. It will more like come automatically as an extra. 

[Nahm]

@KGrimes

I can appreciate that for sure, but I think there’s something ‘below’ that’s fueling the monkey mind, as in it’s not really about others. 

[RendHeaven]

9 hours ago, KGrimes said:

i am debating on:

a) finally tell a woman, that I like her and i care for her, and that if she would like to continue talking with me and see where this goes to, we should do so, and if she does not like me, we should go our separate ways.

b) simply not tell her my feelings,

Don't emotionally vomit on her. It'll be perceived as weird and creepy if you've been acting totally uninterested for months, and then suddenly the dams burst and you spew your sappy feelings all over her like "I loved you all along~" It's perceived as weird and creepy because you'd basically be saying: "I've been lying to you this whole time, I was afraid of you. Please please please accept me!" It's comes off as manipulative and weak. It also puts her in a tense spot where she's basically forced to make a decision between "yes or no." That is so fucking stressful, and her instinct will be to protect herself and block off the external world (aka - no).

Indicating interest towards a woman should (at first) be as simple and clean as: "hey - you're cute"

It shouldn't feel like vomit, or a burden. There should be no manipulation or weakness. It should not put her in a stressful spot where she has to make any decisions. Notice that if I call a girl cute, with strong eye contact and a smirk, there's no doubt that I'm showing interest. I'm putting myself out there, but I'm doing it in a way that doesn't weird/creep her out. I'm not obligating her to respond yes or no. Now she's free to giggle, or compliment me back. 

Also - if you are going to point blank call a girl cute, do it AS SHE LAUGHS (to something said prior). Don't blurt it out while the conversation is dry (with negative emotions like boredom, awkwardness, etc.). You want to say it when she's already feeling good, so that the "cute" comment is tied-in with positive emotions.

[The0Self]

Too much focus on too few women seems to be the issue.

[DaveB]

Try to do PUA cold approach pick up for at least 3-6 months. When the Covid situation will allow it.

[flowboy]

On 31-3-2021 at 5:45 AM, KGrimes said:

but I do try to 'hit on her' from time to time

Like how?

Did you take initiative to invite her out to do something?

What did you say?

[Heaven]

@Leo Gura I love you out of very selfish reasons?

[Byun Sean]

On 3/30/2021 at 8:45 PM, KGrimes said:

1. I meet ( or at the writting of this post, i a have me a woman who is a co-worker)

2. I slowly build attraction for her.

3. I notice subtle signs of her attraction to me.

4. I continue to act not too interested, but I do try to 'hit on her' from time to time.

5. I start getting attached, start thinking about her a lot, and imagining how the relationship would be.

6. Nothing happens.

7. She starts losing attraction.

8. I stay in the friendzone.

Thats your mistake. 

You need to make it explicit to her asap that you view her sexually if you like her.

Like ask her out or something.

if you act not too interested deliberately and just try to run the

whole thing through your head she puts you in the friendzone box and moves on.

 

Men can get attracted to a woman without knowing whether she is interested back or not.

But women need to know if your interested in order to know to invest more feelings into you.