Mega thread suggestion: healthy conservative views

[trenton]

I notice that repeated exposure to left wing views creates an echo chamber.  I think it is smart to avoid this because I can still be very easily mislead.  I find it far too easy to demonize republicans for voter suppression and lawlessness.

I think this forum would do well to ease the echo chamber effect of the strong left wing bias, by including a mega thread of healthy conservatives.  This would be perfect for seeing diverse perspectives, while giving ourselves a more nuanced understanding of politics.

Should we make this kind of a mega thread?

[Danioover9000]

   Agreed. I'll start off by saying that healthy conservativism is rooted in first understanding that conservativism is an ideation of conservation of anything in the world. It's not to seek permanent conservation, but to slow down unhealthy forms of changes that are too radical or too rapid to sustain in one person's life time, and that it seeks sustainable systems that survive for more than a generation. Also, conservativism depends and is shaped by the culture it comes from, which mostly comes from stage blue to orange societies.

   The following I don't consider as conservativism, is the following: traditionalism, patriotism, nationalism, communism, atheism.

   

[trenton]

@Danioover9000 I understand that the ideologies you mentioned are problematic, and conservatives can easily be sucked into the dangers of traditionalism.

If I were to give a healthy example of conservatism, it would be calling out some of the unsustainable policy changes pushed by the radical left.  The problem is that this can easily be used to turn the left into a socialist boogey man.  A healthy conservative may improve upon hyper radicalism through demonstrating that slower evolution would be more sustainable.  Without fear mongering, conservatives could argue that "no boarders, no wall, no USA at all" is too far. 

Conservatives could try to give a more accurate picture of how much time we have to stop climate change.  There is biased science on both sides, and this would help us to become less paranoid and less absorbed in an environmentalist ideology.  Stage blue and orange don't usually take environmental concerns seriously, so this could be hard to come by.

[trenton]

I think Richard Nixon had some valuable things to say about environmental protection.  Unfortunately he was later impeached for the Watergate scandal.  If not for this corruption, Nixon could be a great example healthy conservatism when it comes to responsible use of the environment.

Here is the history of the epa.

https://www.epa.gov/history/origins-epa

[Epikur]

It is easier to hear conservative viewpoints from liberals than from conservatives otherwise liberals might stop listening or start rationalizing.
 

 

 

[4201]

On 30/03/2021 at 6:12 PM, trenton said:

I notice that repeated exposure to left wing views creates an echo chamber.  I think it is smart to avoid this because I can still be very easily mislead.  I find it far too easy to demonize republicans for voter suppression and lawlessness.

I think this forum would do well to ease the echo chamber effect of the strong left wing bias, by including a mega thread of healthy conservatives.  This would be perfect for seeing diverse perspectives, while giving ourselves a more nuanced understanding of politics.

Should we make this kind of a mega thread?

It's easy to demonize republicans when Ben Shapiro and other right wing figures are out there making videos defending legislation that makes it harder to vote.

If we only base the definition of an echo chamber on the point of views we bring up, I could as well suggest there's not enough pro nazi point of views being expressed on this forum, therefore it's an echo chamber. This is silly, you don't beat an echo chamber by including every possible point of view that there is. The echo chamber is what is commonly believed by the community. What is our common dead angle? What do we all assume that is false? Bringing more beliefs just doesn't fix much.

I don't really think this forum is much of an echo chamber in the politics section. It's way too much of a free for all. Everyone shares their opinion, and perhaps there's a "more commonly agreed upon" opinion, but with the total lack of upvotes, it doesn't really matter much who agrees with who. Leo doesn't make politics video very often nowadays so it's not like we have a "right way to think" being presented anymore.

Now I would think that Leo has some sort of "personal echo chamber", supporting the belief that he "went deeper" in spirituality than other teachers for instance. But really this has nothing to do with politics

Edited April 1, 2021 by 4201

[Milos Uzelac]

He may not be internationally well known but Patriarch Paul became famous in the Balkans during the time he was the patriarch of the Serbian Orthodox Church from early 90's till his death in 2005. for standing up against the insanity, anti-humanism and violence of ultranationalism, especially Greater Serbian nationalism since he thought it was his duty to do so since it was being spread from the country he was born in and in which he lived his life, during the 90's and for leading, as the patriarch of the Serbian Orthodox Church, which is supposedly a conservative and status quo institution that should not go up against the established order of rule and power, for time and time again resistance and demonstrations against the dictator Slobodan Milosevich in Serbia. 

He may have other conservative views as the patriarch of the regional autocephalous national Orthodox Church regarding the status of some internationally disputed regions and Serbian minority ethnic populations outside of and in relation to Serbia, but a lot of the times the sentiments he espoused in public were Christian universalist values regarding all men and their relationship to God and about their unity in the struggle of good against evil, which he deeply believed could be generated and contained in the heart of any man regardless of his race, religion, ethnicity, class status and class origin or family nobility. 

Here are some of the quotes from him in the Christian spirit about the need to fight to live and for your life since it is a gift from God and therefore of sacred origin and substance, to accept your fellow men regardless of however much he is different from or seemingly on the surface opposed to you and the destiny of what God put you here for in a conservative flavour:

"A bird is bird if it flies, a flower is a flower if it blossoms, a man is man if he prays." - Patriarch Pavle

"Your heart should not be poisoned with hate or vengeance. God's justice is always achievable." - +Pat. Pavle

"A sinner is an unhappy man, especially if he is full of himself." - +Pat. Pavle

"God will always put you through different temptations but never through the ones you are not already ready for." - +Pat. Pavle

"Everything that is shared more there is less, but only when love is shared more there is more of it." - +Pat. Pavle

"Do not let evil around you to awaken evil within yourself" - +Pat Pavle

"If God is with you then what are you afraid of? If God is not with you then what are you hoping for? - +Pat. Pavle

"Don't ever forget that evil is of a short duration, and only seemingly successful and shining... So on evil, cunning and fraud nothing should be founded upon...especially not life." - +Pat. Pavle

"True love is one which doesn't seek its own, when you love someone or something without logic. That is as well also true freedom. And that's why I am a Christian." - +Pat. Pavle

"People in essence are wonderful, but they corrupt themselves with bad habits. God gave us the power of the habit, but it depends on us what and what kind of habit will prevail." - +Pat. Pavle

"He who cannot calm himself, will be calmed down by life itself. But life doesn't always have nice methods for this." - +Pat. Pavle 

"Wisdom without goodness is transformed into vileness, and innocence without wisdom becomes stupidity." - + Pat. Pavle

"Let us be the collaborators of God, doing that which is our duty as humans, and God will help us in turn to pull through that which we alone can't stand against." +Pat. Pavle

"To humiliate me can't do but anyone, but to humiliate me can only do but one. That one is myself." +Pat. Pavle

"People of this world adorn and decorate themselves on the outside, and leave behind that which is most important, that which makes us human - justice, mercy and faith and truth and love." - +Pat. Pavle

"We are bound to even in the worst of situations act as people, and there is no interest, either national or individual, that can become an excuse for us not to act as people [humans]." - +Pat. Paul

"When a man is born the whole world rejoices and only he cries. But he should live his life in such a way that when he dies the whole world cries and only he rejoices." - +Pat. Pavle 

"Every rule and ruler is from God, just as love, truth and justice are from God. But not every rule and ruler is according to God's will but only by permission of God, because man is a free being. Not even God can save those who do not want to save themselves, because that would be violence, and God does not commit violence just as he is not for lies and injustices. Violence, lies and injustices are not power, but rather powerlessness." - +Pat. Pavle

Edited April 1, 2021 by Milos Uzelac

[Forestluv]

This thread topic is to discuss healthy conservative views. Please stay on topic. I’ve hidden a few posts that are inflammatory and off-topic. 

[Forestluv]

@Epikur This thread is to discuss healthy conservative views, not for inflammatory posts bashing liberals as "not giving a f about homeless people". Please don't derail threads. 

[Forestluv]

There have been several posts bashing liberals or conservatives. Once again, the OP clearly stated the thread is a discussion of HEALTHY conservative views. It is not a thread to bash liberals or conservatives.

If you don't have any input about healthy conservatives views, move on to another thread. 

[Epikur]

2 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

Once again, the OP clearly stated the thread is a discussion of HEALTHY conservative views. It is not a thread to bash liberals or conservatives.

If you don't have any input about healthy conservatives views, move on to another thread. 

Actually Vaush is saying that

[Forestluv]

19 minutes ago, Epikur said:

Actually Vaush is saying that

A video that you describe as "liberals don't give a f about homeless people" is polarizing and inflammatory. That isn't the spirit of this thread. 

The OP stated he simply wants to discuss healthy conservative views. If you would like to discuss how conservatives views are helpful to homeless people, go for it. Yet we can do it in a way that doesn't focus on bashing liberals. 

For example, Marcus Aurelius would be considered conservative - he had a lot of healthy views. As well, church groups have some healthy views. I grew up in a catholic environment and there were some healthy views regarding sacrifice to community, helping others, dedication to a higher purpose, selflessness etc. 

[Epikur]

4 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

A video that you describe as "liberals don't give a f about homeless people" is polarizing and inflammatory. That isn't the spirit of this thread. 

The OP stated he simply wants to discuss healthy conservative views. If you would like to discuss how conservatives views are helpful to homeless people, go for it. Yet we can do it in a way that doesn't focus on bashing liberals. 

For example, Marcus Aurelius would be considered conservative - he had a lot of healthy views. As well, church groups have some healthy views. I grew up in a catholic environment and there were some healthy views regarding sacrifice to community, helping others, dedication to a higher purpose, selflessness etc. 

I guess it is a matter of personal taste. I regard criticizing liberals for the 'right' reasons to be healthy 'conservatism'.

[Gesundheit]

3 hours ago, Forestluv said:

This thread topic is to discuss healthy conservative views. Please stay on topic. I’ve hidden a few posts that are inflammatory and off-topic. 

My thread of yesterday was of a similar nature, why did you lock it? I wanted to understand so I asked a question. My question was fair and within the guidelines. Why did you lock it?

 

[vladorion]

8 minutes ago, Epikur said:

I guess it is a matter of personal taste. I regard criticizing liberals for the 'right' reasons to be healthy 'conservatism'.

If you criticize liberals, it's inflammatory. You can say whatever you want about conservatives though and that's fine.

I think this is coming from Leo being afraid of being cancelled if he allows non-liberal political views to be openly expressed here.

[Epikur]

2 minutes ago, vladorion said:

If you criticize liberals, it's inflammatory. You can say whatever you want about conservatives though and that's fine.

I think this is coming from Leo being afraid of being cancelled if he allows non-liberal political views to be openly expressed here.

I know that, that is why I did not use conservative sources. I used Vaush a progressive.

[Forestluv]

43 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

My thread of yesterday was of a similar nature, why did you lock it? I wanted to understand so I asked a question. My question was fair and within the guidelines. Why did you lock it?

 

Because it degraded into actual drug sourcing. I kept having to hide posts describing how to source drugs. I can't spend all day baby sitting a thread. This thread is on the edge of getting locked as well. I don't have the time to baby sit it. 

33 minutes ago, vladorion said:

If you criticize liberals, it's inflammatory. You can say whatever you want about conservatives though and that's fine.

You are missing what I wrote. I said this thread is not about bashing liberals OR conservatives. I have hidden posts bashing liberals AND conservatives.

If you have healthy conservative views to share, go for it. Otherwise, don't derail the thread. 

The thread will end up getting locked if people can't be mature and simply discuss healthy conservative views. 

@Husseinisdoingfine This thread is about sharing HEALTHY conservative views. Stop posting videos focused on criticizing conservatives. There are plenty of other threads about that. If you don't have any input about healthy conservatism, then move along. 

[Forestluv]

This is my favorite speech regarding healthy conservative views. I like the way he speaks about work ethic, discipline, dedication, integrity, sacrifice and team work. 

 

[Epikur]

@Forestluv

I saw it before but I don't feel anything

 

 

[Forestluv]

@Epikur Yea, McRaven is old-school Blue. Stuff like sacrificing yourself to authority and a team. . . Jocko is much more individual oriented - stuff like setting personal goals and personal achievement. Jocko is more on the orange side than McRaven. I would have loved Jocko in my 20s and 30s.