God as "Selfless"

[Breakingthewall]

11 minutes ago, Superfluo said:

but why does the ego want things to be different?

because the ego is a survival program. food=good,  hunger=bad, be leader of the tribe is good, get kicked out of the cave in winter is really bad.

 These are basic examples, but from the base it develops in millions of subtleties that the coexistence in such a complex society of the human being creates, until forming an independent entity, with an apparent life of its own

[Superfluo]

@Breakingthewall Yes, and why is the ego designed that way?

If the ego wants things to be different, and the reason is to not die, then the ego knows/feels that if it didn't trick itself into desiring, it would die "by its own hands", i.e. from lack of perpetuating itself. And this feature is designed by God so that it would experience being "not God".

All of this makes perfect sense from a logical sense, but still I feel something is missing, I feel uneasy thinking about this stuff, like there's something else that I can't grasp that if grasped would make sense of everything. I feel like I need the last puzzle piece and I can't find it.

[Breakingthewall]

@SuperfluoThis is nothing but fantasy, but imagine the emptiness it is, you want to be material and self-aware. part of zero. it creates space, time, combinable matter, something we call "life." that life continues to recombine, increasing its complexity in an improvised but very deliberate way. from the animal, after some billions of years (nothing important for infinity) it passes to the semi-animal, which is out of place. begins to recombine into a new type of non-physical evolution: purple-red stage, etc. Your engine is suffering. for infinite emptiness, suffering is the same as anything else. It is what you have perceived to work. and here we are you and I trying to open our mind to infinity. The ego is the mind of the animal, wonderful tool for survival, but now, when the survival is done, it's time to transcend it.

[ForTeap]

On 31/03/2021 at 5:48 AM, Leo Gura said:

no self = The ???? Self

A rock is selfless because it doesn't imagine itself as a self.

 

No self = ???.

Your argument for no self being a set of endless possibilites comes from a specific analogy which is not correctly used, the true color spectrum is actually finite, because there's no way to strictly define the number of colors doesn't mean there are zillions of them.

But even if there were zillions of possible colors, the chamaleon is in a neutral state when incolor, the colors the chamaleon can shift to, doesn't yet exist, it's one that can produce another, like cause and effect, like chemistry builds a new substance. 

And a rock cannot imagine anything, because a 'rock' is not a living being. But if it could, then it wouldn't be a rock anymore.

Edited April 6, 2021 by ForTeap

[ForTeap]

On 03/04/2021 at 3:37 PM, Breakingthewall said:

@SuperfluoThis is nothing but fantasy, but imagine the emptiness it is, you want to be material and self-aware. part of zero. it creates space, time, combinable matter, something we call "life." that life continues to recombine, increasing its complexity in an improvised but very deliberate way. from the animal, after some billions of years (nothing important for infinity) it passes to the semi-animal, which is out of place. begins to recombine into a new type of non-physical evolution: purple-red stage, etc. Your engine is suffering. for infinite emptiness, suffering is the same as anything else. It is what you have perceived to work. and here we are you and I trying to open our mind to infinity. The ego is the mind of the animal, wonderful tool for survival, but now, when the survival is done, it's time to transcend it.

Define "infinite emptiness". How can something that doesn't exist be "infinite"? Do you even know what the concept of "infinity" points to? 

How do we open our minds to infinity if we don't even know if there is such path to walk?

Edited April 5, 2021 by ForTeap

[ForTeap]

On 02/04/2021 at 8:32 AM, Javfly33 said:

I don't have a problem seeing that a rock is selfless. The thing is, imo there isn't a rock. It's just a proyection of my consciousness/it's just being.

So of course being it's selfless. But I was doubting if you meant that there was a POV of a rock where was Incarnating.

If you meant the first yeah I agree 

 

Have you read Kant?

You can't know the thing-in-itself. 

You can never know what a 'rock' actually looks like outside of you (uour mind etc), you can only pretend. But it's all vibrations. According to quantum physics when a rock is not observed it remains as quantum foams and 98% of what is inside an atom is pure void. So a rock isn't a rock, but somethign else.

[ForTeap]

On 03/04/2021 at 11:42 AM, Breakingthewall said:

because the ego is a survival program. food=good,  hunger=bad, be leader of the tribe is good, get kicked out of the cave in winter is really bad.

 These are basic examples, but from the base it develops in millions of subtleties that the coexistence in such a complex society of the human being creates, until forming an independent entity, with a life of its own

Well, I don't see how that's true. There are people who born into unknown place without any parents or anyone to even influence them and their sense of ego haven't change a bit.

[Breakingthewall]

9 hours ago, ForTeap said:

Define "infinite emptiness". How can something that doesn't exist be "infinite"? Do you even know what the concept of "infinity" points to? 

Maybe it's better "unlimited". The nothing is unlimited, and it's what we are. It's like a realization in meditation or psychedelic, when the mind is gone, we are nothing, like an abyss of emptiness but being nothing, "is", and its you, without any attribute or characteristic. It doesn't make much logical sense, but if you see it, it seems obvious

5 hours ago, ForTeap said:

Well, I don't see how that's true. There are people who born into unknown place without any parents or anyone to even influence them and their sense of ego haven't change a bit.

I said food=good hunger=bad. Not only social contact form the ego, but social contact and language is very important in humans, if you find someone who has never had any social contact or learned language, surely they have a very weak ego, it would be interesting to see