I feel like the idea of commitment is bogus

[Preety_India]

@integral that doesn't count as love in my book. But maybe in yours.

I haven't loved any man without commitment. 

If a relationship doesn't work out, that's a different situation. 

But I never entered a relationship by saying there's no commitment.. 

Often times what we are trying to convince others as some divine non committal pure love is simply manipulation to get sex. 

The desire of true love is too strong to resist. It creates a strong passion to be with the lover at any cost. 

Not being able to commit is just a weakness, a cop out and justifying it is cop out as well. 

You don't simply love someone in a human way and let them go their way and continue loving them. As ethereal as this seems, it is not so. It is just plain emotional detachment and dis-affectation. 

When you truly love someone, the desire to spend every minute with that person is strong that love becomes a disease, a madness, a scourge, no thirst, no hunger matches this yearning for the lover and for love to reach culmination through commitment. 

A love that never reached this level of fervor, madness and burning  passion is simply not love but a lust.

A lust that fades and fizzles with the first night of sex. 

But the eyes don't want to believe that it's lust. 

So the mind believes that it must be love. 

True love is like burning passion, it's monogamous, cannot live without the lover and wishes the completion of love through long term commitment for life 

Sorry this is the only kind of love I can speak of from experience. 

 

[Nahm]

@tatsumaru

That’s all easy. Can you see the opposite of everything you mentioned? 

[tatsumaru]

45 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Not being able to commit is just a weakness, a cop out and justifying it is cop out as well. 

This isn't about fidelity, cheating or loyalty. This is about the realization of the simple fact that if you want to be with someone you will be with that someone and if you don't want to be with someone, being with them is no longer love, it's torture. What you are saying sounds like you are just afraid that if someone doesn't commit in some official manner, either by contract or by promise, they will leave you and you will be hurt. Do magnets need commitment to attract each other? Is their attraction not real? If anything commitment suppresses true love because it suggests that feelings alone can't be trusted and a promise needs to be made. Being afraid you will be dumped and trying to hold on to someone isn't love, that's just addiction. True love is just true love, it doesn't need safeguards. Commitment is about resistance, it's about resisting the desire to move on, it's about lying that you will be there forever even though soon you will be dead and this short adventure would be over. Love is about harmony, not about concepts. Does harmony require commitment?

45 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

When you truly love someone, the desire to spend every minute with that person is strong that love becomes a disease, a madness, a scourge, no thirst, no hunger matches this yearning for the lover and for love to reach culmination through commitment. 

All of the feelings that you are describing require no commitment whatsoever, they happen on their own. Do you think a little child loves its mother because of its commitment to her? Love transcends societal agreements and traditions.

45 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

A love that never reached this level of fervor, madness and burning  passion is simply not love but a lust.

If it doesn't reach that level, then it doesn't reach it. That's fine. You can't make it better through commitment. Certain chemical reactions are just weaker. When you allow your partner freedom you give them the chance to stay for no reason whatsoever other than their desire to stay. Everything else is baggage. Ask yourself why would you take that freedom away and realize it's rooted in fear, not love.

"Tie two birds together and though they have four wings now, they cannot fly." - Rumi

 

Edited March 31, 2021 by tatsumaru

[Preety_India]

Just now, tatsumaru said:

Do you think a little child loves its mother because of its commitment to her?

A commitment is not an agreement. A commitment is wanting to be with that person. It can be without an agreement. It's wanting to be with that person. 

 

[Preety_India]

@tatsumaru if by commitment you mean marriage, then you are wrong in your definition of commitment. 

That's called legalization of a bond. 

You maybe not be committed to a woman yet you may still be married to them.. 

Commitment is not an official thing. It's your mind 's readiness to stay committed to that person, that is wanting that person for an indefinite period of time. A solidification of the bond but not legalization.. 

When you are not committed it means you could leave that person even the next minute, you could choose to be with whoever you want, and leave the relationship without mutual consent. 

Committment means you let the world know that you are with that person and don't plan to be with anyone else at least for the time being. 

 

[tatsumaru]

19 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

if by commitment you mean marriage, then you are wrong in your definition of commitment. 

By commitment I mean what commitment means: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/commitment

19 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

When you are not committed it means you could leave that person even the next minute, you could choose to be with whoever you want, and leave the relationship without mutual consent. 

You don't stay with someone because you are committed, you stay because you don't want to leave. Saying that commitment is what keeps two people together is basically saying that you need discipline to remain in a loving relationship, but we already know that we need discipline to do the things we don't want to do, not the other way around. The same way a kid doesn't need discipline to eat their sweets, people who love each other don't need any readiness/willingness to be attracted to each other and spend time together. Feelings are not about choices. In the context of relationships commitment is the promise of staying if you don't feel like it. You could certainly maintain some sort of mechanical relationship through commitment, but that's no love, that's just occupying a close space together.

That all being said I think your understanding of commitment might relate to something different that I have experienced. Sometimes when you are in love with the right person there's a certain sense of completeness, of that person being enough for you and being satisfied and not needing anymore. That feeling dissolves your tendency to look around for a better partner. I don't consider this commitment though for there was no choice or decision made to make it happen it simply happened because of harmony.

The way I see it, it boils down to whether a relationship is being guided by each partner's fear of not being left for someone else or it's being guided by seeking harmony between partners. First type is low-tier/survival, second one is high-tier/harmony/inspiration.

 

Edited March 31, 2021 by tatsumaru

[Preety_India]

@tatsumaru it's not discipline.its a desire. 

It is not a rigid thing the way you are trying to make it 

People talk about commitment because they have the desire to be with the person. 

They further solidify the bond by legalising it 

 

It is you  who is getting it all mixed up 

You are mixing marriage with commitment. 

People marry and can still cheat. Committment is lost at that point. 

 

 

[tatsumaru]

25 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

A solidification of the bond but not legalization.. 

 

7 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

They further solidify the bond by legalising it 

Make up your mind first and then we can talk.

Edited March 31, 2021 by tatsumaru

[Preety_India]

@tatsumaru I already made it clear to you. You just don't get it. So I withdraw from the discussion. No point. 

 

[Roy]

12 hours ago, tatsumaru said:

Why do you have to make promises such as "I want to spend the rest of my life with you" that you don't really know if you can keep or not

Because people (mostly the women let's be honest ) want to dream up that fantasy because it feels good. Also the social tradition and culture of marriage which has been around along time.

It sounds like you're just rational @tatsumaru and like your freedom. Nothing wrong with that! Do your thing and don't apologize for it. I'm probably never getting married either. In fact I'm even seriously entertaining the idea of getting a vasectomy. I want to be able to shoot blanks and not worry about buying or having expensive condoms on me all the time 

Nothing I can imagine is more terrifying than having an unwanted baby that can completely upend two people's lives and always be a source of resentment and regret. It fucking blows my mind how so many people can be so stupid and reckless.

Edited March 31, 2021 by Roy

[Willie]

Marriage is bogus. Commitment is not. Are you committed to living consciously and in pursuit of ultimate truth, or is this a passing phase?

[Gesundheit]

Of course. It's just a survival strategy.

[intotheblack]

You can be committed without getting married.  Marriage doesn’t mean you are more committed.  It just means you entered into a contract and have no idea if you will break it or not.  I don’t blame people for not wanting to get married, Basically, leave the town you grew up in and you’ll never face the social pressure of marriage & kids.  

People get married without really knowing what commitment.. or even Love is.  Of course nobody has any idea how things will be in the future.  Being committed to something is choosing it.  Basically if you are committing to someone you’re choosing to work and grow in that relationship, but also because you want to.  This can be done without marriage. 

The problem is that the social pressure around marriage is huge.  People rush into this without thinking it through, because all of their social circle are doing it and they don’t wanna be ‘behind’  in the social survival game. 

They all run in a race against time to get married by age 30.  Like once you hit age 30 then that’s it for you.  Then, next it’s a race to have children.  How many people really think about what it means to bring a child into the world? Not many.  Again, mostly doing it because of social pressure and fear of getting too old.

I never had this dream of a huge wedding, i agree with you, it’s a whole lot of stress and money just for one day, and mostly it’s for the pleasure of other people and to look good in the social circle. 

You can’t even enjoy your wedding day properly because you have a duty to go and talk to every guest and make sure that everything goes as planned and keep the guests happy.  It’s absurd when you think about it.  Then, after years planning and 1000s being spent, just like that it’s all over.  

I really wouldn’t want that. rather than getting officially married I would instead have a private ceremony of love.  Just a true celebration of how you are feeling at that moment in time, without any kind of contract being made.  Everything is changing constantly, the future is uncertain, all you can do is love in the moment and see where that leads you.  You can feel loving and committed to someone in the moment, and maybe those moments will carry on a lifetime, maybe a few years, who knows. 

 

Edited March 31, 2021 by intotheblack

[Hulia]

Osho is clever and funny. I can imagine, I would enjoy meeting him, talking and playing with him in his younger years, Maybe even have sex. He has this type of gaze, which is sexy, - steady and penetrating, black eyes. But he is not the one from whom you can learn something. Not in a classical sense. I don´t understand this obsession about him.  

My hero is Jiddu Krishnamurti.

Edited March 31, 2021 by Hulia

[tatsumaru]

1 hour ago, intotheblack said:

You can be committed without getting married.  Marriage doesn’t mean you are more committed.  It just means you entered into a contract and have no idea if you will break it or not.  I don’t blame people for not wanting to get married, Basically, leave the town you grew up in and you’ll never face the social pressure of marriage & kids.  

People get married without really knowing what commitment.. or even Love is.  Of course nobody has any idea how things will be in the future.  Being committed to something is choosing it.  Basically if you are committing to someone you’re choosing to work and grow in that relationship, but also because you want to.  This can be done without marriage. 

The problem is that the social pressure around marriage is huge.  People rush into this without thinking it through, because all of their social circle are doing it and they don’t wanna be ‘behind’  in the social survival game. 

They all run in a race against time to get married by age 30.  Like once you hit age 30 then that’s it for you.  Then, next it’s a race to have children.  How many people really think about what it means to bring a child into the world? Not many.  Again, mostly doing it because of social pressure and fear of getting too old.

I never had this dream of a huge wedding, i agree with you, it’s a whole lot of stress and money just for one day, and mostly it’s for the pleasure of other people and to look good in the social circle. 

You can’t even enjoy your wedding day properly because you have a duty to go and talk to every guest and make sure that everything goes as planned and keep the guests happy.  It’s absurd when you think about it.  Then, after years planning and 1000s being spent, just like that it’s all over.  

I really wouldn’t want that. rather than getting officially married I would instead have a private ceremony of love.  Just a true celebration of how you are feeling at that moment in time, without any kind of contract being made.  Everything is changing constantly, the future is uncertain, all you can do is love in the moment and see where that leads you.  You can feel loving and committed to someone in the moment, and maybe those moments will carry on a lifetime, maybe a few years, who knows. 

 

This is how a woman I could love thinks like.