What is "Her Game"?

[Rajneeshpuram]

5 hours ago, Eternity said:

What a smart group of people Leo has assembled here on his forum.  Leo who has attracted a group of advanced, experiencers with those who are less experienced so that we can all help one another has done a brilliant job and raised awareness of mankind which I like most.  I enjoyed every comment here and benefited by many of them, some more, some less.  But the whole group is top notch.

I do want you to succeed Leo although at times I may not sound like it.  So, because my husband is a very open person and doesn't hide his opinion from anyone (he is German, born and bred there, and everyone there is opinionated and does not shy away from speaking out honestly and he was quite the chick magnet prior to marriage) I asked him his opinion of your video. What he said was not something I would enjoy telling you.  He isn't into spirituality at all.  So he puts his unvarnished opinions right out there.  He hasn't seen any of your videos either except this one.  However, in the mildest terms I can think of he said upon watching your video and dating concepts that you are delusional and at first glance he wouldn't date you either.  As I've said here before, it comes down to looks.  Women have a certain ideal of who they would like to get with just like men. He said you looked shady, and untrustworthy and your facial features were out of balance and your teeth bothered him (sadly that is an expensive fix). Now this was only one person's opinion, so it won't matter what he said or thinks to you.  But women are not oblivious to looks just as men aren't oblivious.  And nothing will change that just as I can't expect you or any other man to change his basic operating system to suit mine.  Okay, we can all use some help with our looks.  I'm not a gorgeous hollywood beauty.  And you are not the standard leading movie star type handsome guy.  But I use makeup and have my hair styled. I've had a makeup artist teach me which features you can accent and what colors bring out the best features. These weren't expensive fixes.  The makeup artist I saw was a coupon deal but he did makeup for our local t.v. news announcers, the hair stylist was a one time deal because I found a cheaper stylist who did the same style for me for about 2/3 less than the other stylist.  No I'm not recommending you use makeup, although there are products specifically made for men to appear naturally more handsome like face cream that gives you a tanned look (and I don't mean the orange tan like Trump wears).  I'm just saying the more you enhance your looks the more you go up in value to a woman.  A good looking man is a status symbol for a woman.  She can brag about him to her gfs.  It shows she is a woman of value.

Women will allow a handsome man many more chances than a plain ordinary guy whose pale head appears to float mysteriously in a black void.  Why? Because his value rose when he improved on his looks.  Would it make sense for someone selling a house to leave it behind for viewing with a backed up toilet, pealing paint, rusted gutters, cracks in the foundation, termite damage, and a yard with nothing but overgrown weeds? This is where I agree with the market value of in our surrealistic dream world. I'm in no way dissing God here, because the creator of all that is and I and you and all beings are Dreamers of the dreamworld (or worlds if you like) together equally.

So in your perspective if you are interesting and funny and doing well in a popular internet platform, that is enough.  But in fact it's only average enough.  The cornerstone, in the dating world is looks.  The rest are add ons.  So you are now trying to sell this house of yours without the foundation it needs.  The price of your house, to you in the going market seems to sync up.  But to the average buyers it isn't worth the money to accept a house with a cracked foundation, rusting gutters, a yard that needs work and an exterior that needs a paint job etc.  They'd rather pay a bit more for a house that won't require a complete over haul for something with more value built in.

Your buyers, Leo, are women.  You aren't a lost cause by any means.  But when I say you've gotten ahead with what you offer in your market, i.e. dating and sex, wouldn't it be less work and more fun to have women handing you their phone numbers or falling into your arms unsolicited?  I can 99.9% guarantee that women would not be making lame excuses (what you like to label "games") for why they can't sleep with you.  We are born with the intuition to feel, to have a sense about what you are trying to hide.  Why do kids say their moms have eyes in the back of their heads?  Because we have an intuitive feel for what they are up to. We have to, to protect our babies.  If you want to label our intuition BS, be my guest.  I see where this Meta philosophy can be a great "out" for less than ethical ideals.  If a woman is highly sexually attracted, you won't have to jump through hoops.  Which is why I still say, I don't  believe the girl in your example was attracted sexually.  Some women will give up and give in because you have made yourself a pest, maybe even an entertaining pest, so they tolerate you because they had nothing else going on.  But don't flatter yourself that they are all sexually attracted even if they think you somewhat witty and go along with your little charade pretending you are more interesting than they actually think.  It's flattering to her for someone to show an interest, so why not encourage him?  But when you stray into badgering territory then you are suddenly persona non grata.  And I still say if you had actually grabbed her and cornered her in the bathroom, in my state of Washington at least, she could have cried rape on you for non-consensual sex. You didn't have the foundation you needed for your value to be high enough to her in this case.  It is the egoic mind that requires you to defend your position to the bitter end.  I am dreaming this now along with you, and ego has been quite skillful at convincing me to pound my point home.  But I'm going to shut my pie hole instead now.  I've said too much all ready.

I dont want to offend you, for me your theories about how attraction works are a bit outdated, and based in old morals and social image. In my youth I was a very attractive man, worked in some tv as a figurant. You now what? I never succed with women, because I was very introverted and shy.

Women would hit on me, act provocative and I usually became scared and go on.

Looks dont guarantee nothing. Then I saw ugly guys with beautiful women and I couldnt understand what the hell was wrong! All the blue pill cultural brainwashing crumbled.

The harsh reality is that the most important for a woman to feel attraction for a man is how she feels around him, (protected, funny, relaxed). Love is not a choice that can be rationalized, you cannot fight it.

Probably Leo acted too direct and the girl noticed that he wanted something from her, this is what repells attraction.

A girl cannot feel safe and protected near a skinny manlet like Leo, but if he shows up as a interesting adventurous guy, this is attractive too.

 

 

 

[intotheblack]

5 hours ago, RendHeaven said:

bahaha so you're telling all of us that you'll initiate sex by tearing off your clothes and spreading your legs for a new man on day 1 based on pure attraction alone?

Hmmm.  No this isn’t what I’m saying, wasn’t talking about having sex with someone you just met.  That totally depends on the girl, whether or not they would want to have sex there and then or wait a few days. 
Actually, my comment wasn’t directed at Leo’s situation, I was talking about the attraction phase and knowing if the girl is genuinely attracted, or if she is unsure about the guy, but hanging out anyway. 
I’m not saying that the girl will necessarily initiate sex, but again depends on the girl.  If she was full of desire she may be the one leading you to the bathroom or asking her friend to leave the bedroom.  There is lots of possible scenarios. 
 

5 hours ago, RendHeaven said:

Your "game" is staying coy and passive; waiting for him to initiate, or otherwise postponing sex until days later. Doesn't matter how attracted you are

again, it totally depends.  How shy the girl is, her boundaries etc. 

What I mean when I say she will come to you, I mean she will be wanting to spend time with you, asking you to hang out, being flirty or more direct and open. I’m not saying she will make the move to kiss first, but she will be open to it. 

The reason for ‘postponing’ same day sex is because sex is a bigger deal for a girl especially with someone she just met! She doesn’t know if she can trust him. 
 

5 hours ago, RendHeaven said:

In fact, arguing that "if the man has to manipulate, the girl was never attracted" is naive as hell. If that was true, same-day-lays would be physically impossible.

Of course people still have sex without being really attracted to eachother! Yeah there will be some attraction somehow but ‘same day lays’ are based more on looks since you don’t know the person.  This is why more manipulation tactics are used by guys who want to sleep with a girl on the same day. It becomes more forced and needy, this also becomes a repellent.  Girls know when you just want to get sex. 

If you are trying for a same day lay, then you have to use more force and be more direct to try and push through the girls boundaries, what you call a girls  ‘game’ in this situation is her trying to hold off since she may not feel ready to sleep with you... the time is too short to know if that’s what she wants.

Other scenarios would be if a girl was a little drunk or really fancied you then tricks ain’t needed so much.

 

5 hours ago, RendHeaven said:

She was there with him the whole damn night. The fact that she didn't just leave shows us she was attracted

I’m sure she was attracted somewhat but I wasn’t there so I dunno.  

It’s happened to me before where I hung out with a guy all night who I wasn’t THAT attracted to but he was friendly and funny, we ended up kissing, but I didn’t want to sleep with him, even though he really wanted to, so I had to make up an excuse to get away and tell him I had to wake up early.  

So there is so many situations, where being aware of a girls actions tells you if she really likes you or not.  A girl pulling away doesn’t always mean she’s trying to be coy and wants to be chased. 

What I’m saying is if a girl is genuinely attracted she will make it more obvious...contacting you, wanting to spend time together. You don’t have to play so many games when it’s a real attraction.  This goes for male and female.  

If she doesn’t fancy you that much, then she will pull back more, be more flakey etc. It means she’s unsure about you yet.
Again, goes both ways.

 

 
 

  

 

 

 

Edited April 4, 2021 by intotheblack

[RendHeaven]

@intotheblack Gotcha

[Crane Bahnsteik]

Unless everyone interacting is very conscious of the fact that there is no separation and they and the other person are in fact the same, every social interaction will inevitably be a game based on personal interests.

It is true that women play games when it comes to having sex or a relationship, but they don't do it with everyone, there are exceptions, they only play games with men they are not so sure about and not 100% attracted to, even though they end up having sex anyway. If you take for example a famous attractive guy, very rarely any women, (shy or not, virgin or not) will play games with him initialy, they just want sex right off the bat and they will be quite aggressive about it, since this is aligned with their personal interests (Aproval, Pride, etc). The games will come later in other forms (Dominance, Control, and so on).

Ofc men play games as well based on their desire for sex, status, and control, you can't play a game alone. As a man I used to have sex with women that liked me but that i was not 100% attracted to, I would just be very sexual and kinky from the start and if they were into to it i would have sex with them, this was my "game". Since i was not 100% attracted to the person my interest was only sex, but when I was interested on the person based on my personal agenda, sex would become secundary.

Games are a waste of time and not aligned with the true nature of what we are, thats how a lot of bad long term or even short term toxic relationships are formed.

[Brittany]

21 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

A girl is a girl and they are all fundamentally attracted to the same basic things. As are guys.

I disagree. haha

Many stage green, yellow and purple women don't engage in casual sex. (mystics, yogi teachers, Law of Attraction teachers etc.)

I follow a lot of these women, and they often post these "why I don't have casual sex" type videos, especially on Instagram. 

And they often teach about being careful with sharing your body with a man who has a ton of unresolved trauma and shadow - because it will enter into your auric field. haha

And many stage blue religious women are worse. They will lead a date already talking about marriage or there will be no 2nd date. There is no mystery or game playing. It's "are you pursuing me for marriage or no 2nd date". 

[Lyubov]

jesus green is so cringe to listen to sometimes. not denying the validity and insights in those videos, they make many... but man the framing is sometimes too much for me lol

[Haumea2018]

On 4/3/2021 at 4:53 AM, Eternity said:

Nature intends that a women mate only with a compatible partner i.e. one that she could bond to so that her babies will have a stable father figure who is going to be there for his children.

Oh gosh, I don't want to sound insulting, but if you believe this you've led an extraordinarily sheltered life (or you're being totally disingenuous, but I'll be charitable and assume it's the first.)

Nature intends no such thing, as any jailed murderer getting tons of letters, or any member of a biker gang will tell you.  What is meant to intend such a thing is society (but of course with the hatred of "blue" among the bien pensants this has degraded for decades.)  The number of patently unstable father figures women are attracted to is absurdly high.

Edited April 5, 2021 by Haumea2018

[soularlight]

2 hours ago, Crane Bahnsteik said:

Unless everyone interacting is very conscious of the fact that there is no separation and they and the other person are in fact the same, every social interaction will inevitably be a game based on personal interests.

It is true that women play games when it comes to having sex or a relationship, but they don't do it with everyone, there are exceptions, they only play games with men they are not so sure about and not 100% attracted to, even though they end up having sex anyway. If you take for example a famous attractive guy, very rarely any women, (shy or not, virgin or not) will play games with him initialy, they just want sex right off the bat and they will be quite aggressive about it, since this is aligned with their personal interests (Aproval, Pride, etc). The games will come later in other forms (Dominance, Control, and so on).

Ofc men play games as well based on their desire for sex, status, and control, you can't play a game alone. As a man I used to have sex with women that liked me but that i was not 100% attracted to, I would just be very sexual and kinky from the start and if they were into to it i would have sex with them, this was my "game". Since i was not 100% attracted to the person my interest was only sex, but when I was interested on the person based on my personal agenda, sex would become secundary.

Games are a waste of time and not aligned with the true nature of what we are, thats how a lot of bad long term or even short term toxic relationships are formed.

Yes to this! 

[universe]

@Brittany Just because they don't act on their attractions doesn't mean that they are not attracted. We have the ability to control ourselves. Like if you become a catholic priest. Your religion forbids you having sex. Still I think every non-asexual priest will feel attraction when there is a certain spark in the room. At least that is what the evidence points towards.

[Eternity]

 Wow, great thoughts on this subject!  I'm really impressed with how  many brilliant people are on these forums. Some of you framed what I was trying to say from the masculine energy side of yourselves and some of you have framed it from the female energy side of yourselves.  I should append what I am communicating, to say I am only referring to the one situation that Leo brought up and not speaking for every woman on the planet.  I did say women do this or that.  But what I mean is the majority of women react in  similar ways given the circumstances.  That also depends on what culture you were brought up in.  I've lived in Germany for a long period of time.  And girls there are not needy at all.  I and my husband were engaged there and in Germany singles often go too afternoon dancing at coffee houses.  So fiance and I went there since we both liked the music and dance which gave me an education about how the girls there handle meeting a new guy, and man, they were merciless.  German women often go to these places in groups and I pity the poor men who tried approaching a woman there.  If his line was cheesy and his looks were sub par, there would be a roar of laughter. And a firm no thanks.  Done.  And he would have to step back because those are the rules.

But I'm going off topic.  I had one experience when I was dating that was very similar.  I only had one such experience because I learned my lesson and never got myself into such awkward circumstances again.  The guy was very attractive even handsome and he was driving a stunning  Jaguar, my favorite car of all time.  So he seemed very polite and nice and when he asked me if I wanted to take a drive in his car, I said yes.  We drove around and talked and it was a lovely evening.  He had the top down, the wind was blowing through our hair.  We went up to a look out point and watched the sun go down.  He was very pleasant.  So when he asked if I wanted to stop by where he lived at his mother's house I felt it would be safe having his mom around, so I went along with it even though it was a little weird to meet his mom on the very first sort of date.  When we got there he introduced his mom and sister and ordered them to leave us and go to their rooms which made me quite uncomfortable.  We sat on the couch and watched t.v. but he started moving closer, putting his arm around me and pulling me close.  I was only 18 and he was older, but at this point I was figuring out what he was up to.  Even though he was good looking, tan and had a smooth approach he, was urging me to relax and lay back.  That put me on high alert because he was forcing me back on the couch with his body weight and trying to run his hand up under my skirt while I was fighting him.  I could think of nothing to get away gracefully, so I just pushed him off, jumped up and said I would like to go home now.  He had to drive me because my car was parked at home.  So he did very grudgingly and he went off on me about personal stuff like female hygiene all the way home.  When we pulled up to my house, I did not wait.  I just jumped out of his car and slammed the door.  I didn't have to say don't ever call me.  He already knew.  He had a game.  It was called luring young women in with his charm and his flashy car, and then trying to force them to have sex. It was scary I have to say because I was his sacrificial lamb for the night and I knew I was better than that.  I had dates lined up every weekend Friday and Saturday  nights.  

But the thing about his game was that he got too pushy and demanding to the point of making me feel I was in danger and in fact could have easily gotten raped even with his mother in the house.  That is the last thing you want to feel with a man.  The sexual attraction was gone gone gone and all I could think about was survival.  You will never get a girl when you play her that way.  Sexual attraction just dies when it is forced and not allowed to blossom.  If you pry a flower apart in the budding stage, it just curls up and turns brown.  That is how you kill the attraction just as sure if you'd stomped on it and ground it into the dirt.  She will no longer have any feeling toward you.  You can go home after that, it just isn't going to work.

Edited April 5, 2021 by Eternity
typos

[Gesundheit]

On 4/4/2021 at 5:30 AM, Leo Gura said:

I'll believe it when I see it.

Just because you become more conscious does not mean what you're attracted to changes. The idea that conscious girls are above game is silly. A girl is a girl and they are all fundamentally attracted to the same basic things. As are guys.

God is a big boob.

[Yog]

Her game is to implicitly test you all the time. Do you own your shit, do you have it together.

fail tests = lose attraction
fail to many = dumped/ghosted
win tests = gain attraction

And ofc. Its all unconscious and implicit, but its way more fun if its done consciously. Well, that's a goddess.

[Yog]

3 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

God is a big boob.

God squirts all over himself.
That's all he wants and does.

[intotheblack]

56 minutes ago, Yog said:

Her game is to implicitly test you all the time. Do you own your shit, do you have it together.

fail tests = lose attraction
fail to many = dumped/ghosted
win tests = gain attraction

hahaha, found this amusing because my boyfriend would say in the beginning that i would test him, we laugh about it.

they are subtle emotional tests... just to see how resiliant you are

 

 

[Zion]

On 4/3/2021 at 8:30 PM, Leo Gura said:

Just because you become more conscious does not mean what you're attracted to changes. The idea that conscious girls are above game is silly. A girl is a girl and they are all fundamentally attracted to the same basic things. As are guys.

Why do see men & women as always having the same fundamental attractions? Could this not be your own perception & personal experience? After all, you haven't had a relationship with every woman in the world. This "fundamental" understanding could very well be only the women you've been with as a result of who you are & how you are perceived by others. Could you emphasize more as to why you see these as being fundamental rather than being purely perceptional & dogmatic?

[Emerald]

On 4/3/2021 at 10:30 PM, Leo Gura said:

I'll believe it when I see it.

Just because you become more conscious does not mean what you're attracted to changes. The idea that conscious girls are above game is silly. A girl is a girl and they are all fundamentally attracted to the same basic things. As are guys.

It doesn't change as a woman becomes more conscious. (Except in the case of when she works through her traumas... because traumas create incredibly magnetic attraction points. Most attraction comes from mirrored traumas actually. But setting that exception to the side...)

What changes is that a woman realizes what she wanted the whole time and can then go for what she wants more directly. Women don't have a lot of resources for self-discovery because society is geared toward the masculine perspective. So, it is difficult for women to learn about their feminine side. 

Women want intimacy, surrender, and deep connection. And women are looking for a man with the qualities of a good father. I wish I could bring you into the feminine perspective to show you what that looks like. Not to be offensive in saying this, but men don't ever seem to understand what integrated masculinity looks like. It's very subtle.

But most women, until they dive deeply in themselves are unconscious to this drive. So, they search for it an a shadowy and manipulative (and often ineffective) way. And they seek it from male partners who can never give that to them who mirror them in their own disintegration. And that becomes part of the allure because it mirrors their internal situation.

So, you have to understand that there are layers of dysfunction in the average person. And these layers of dysfunction are the reason why men and women tend to play the game quite brutally and in a zero-sum fashion. 

And I would encourage you to look at dating and relationship from more conscious integrative perspectives as opposed to boiling it all down into a zero-sum game. 

Otherwise, it will be a self-fulfilling prophesy for you. You will attract only what you're willing to see. And then, you'll only see what you attract. And you will only attract women who (like you) are only out for their own agenda.... because you both assume that dating is a competition of agendas that someone must lose.

Now, I get why this is more difficult for men. Your game is a numbers game. And the masses have many shades of dysfunction.

For a woman, there is no sense of scarcity. And so, we can find one that matches our personality and sensibilities. And we will attract whoever most matches our strengths, our weaknesses, and our traumas. 

But if you want a conscious relationship with a partner, you'll have to find a woman who is more self-aware... which means, she won't be playing unconscious games where it all boils down to a battle of agendas. 

Edited April 8, 2021 by Emerald

[Yog]

On 4/6/2021 at 7:55 PM, intotheblack said:

hahaha, found this amusing because my boyfriend would say in the beginning that i would test him, we laugh about it.

they are subtle emotional tests... just to see how resiliant you are

It takes a while to be able to see and appreciate this dynamic

Most men will either fight back, or just give up and not take lead , therefore get less attractive as a result.

[tashadwoodfall]

Would if women playing coy, that 'game' is in reaction to the 'games' men have played to get sex.  

Is 'game' another way of just saying being dishonest, misleading, manipulating, and not being in integrity? 

And also maybe women play this 'game' so they are not seen as 'sluts' which men don't need to worry about, in fact the opposite is true for them…

When I was younger, I played this 'coy' game…mostly because I wanted to be 'good' and was conditioned from my catholic upbringing that sex was 'bad' and 'dirty' and if I engaged in it too much (and with the wrong person/people), I was to be shamed.

Now…if I'm not interested sexually in a man, I just straight up tell him (in the nicest way possible).  For women, this determination of whether we're sexually attracted is obviously much more complicated then physical appearance or a nice…