What is "Her Game"?

[peqkno]

In this video Leo talks about a women he's dating starting to play "her game", and him playing his. (Video starts playing at the right time):

 

 

Essentially I'm asking here for elaboration on male/female (if we use those labels) "dating games" (<-- using those words to give you a sense of what I'm talking about, not to just limit this discussion and answers to a dating context only). There's something I'm not understanding, I'm curious what it is.
 

What is happening in the situation there described in the video? (Why does it make sense for her to play that "game". What even is that game, if one were to describe and contrast it to "male game"?)

 

 

Stuff I rote before getting clearer on what I'm asking for with this post:

What I'm looking for with this post:
A) Description of "the female game", or how the survival agenda is different/same to the "male".
B) Examples.
C) Everything else relevant which I don't know to ask for now. Or someone steering the questions and what I ask for in a way that gives me the understanding I'm seeking here, but don't ask well for.

Possibly I have to go meta on my own (male) survival agenda to understand this here. So, I would have to reflect on my own... 

Assumptions I'm making here:
The distinction between female and male game is relevant.
That these different games are played given a different "survival agenda/biases" for females/males (generally speaking).

[EnlightenmentBlog]

Dating is a game. Both sides want different things. Men want to fuck, women want a partner. The male game is appealing to female desire as much as possible and satisfying male needs. The female game is appealing to male desire as much as possible and satisfying female needs. Females desire confident, charming, humorous, strong men so that's what men do. Men desire slim and pretty girls, so that's what girls do. Since most men are not confident and strong, they fake it. Since most girls are not pretty, they put on make up. Both sides play to maximize their chances. Survival in a nutshell. 

That was an example of going meta on dating.

[Leo Gura]

Her game is playing coy and pretending sex is special.

A girl's game is very sneaky. It's the game of pretending she isn't playing a game. She's so good at it that she perceives it as reality itself.

[Godishere]

Are woman more or manipulative then Men? Genuine question from a non-bias perspective. Or do we just have different needs and we are all as manipulative as each other.

[Eternity]

Leo you are a very smart guy, and I appreciate how much effort you put into helping others.  I hate to criticize, but I have a different perspective than you on the your dating experience as you describe it.  And yes, I know I wasn't there.  But you assumed said girl was into the possibility of having sex.  Had you pulled her into the bathroom, she may very well have said you raped her.  The bottom line was she was not interested in you sexually.  She wasn't playing games.  Women in general (except maybe gang girls) dislike conflict.  We are not wired to just flat out tell others the bad news.  And the bad news was that you did not turn her on from the get go.  Something was off to her.  This is not stuff women calculate or even do consciously.  We are wired to be selective.  Nature intends that a women mate only with a compatible partner i.e. one that she could bond to so that her babies will have a stable father figure who is going to be there for his children.  There is nothing, believe me, that is calculated in this.  Women are not thinking "ok, this isn't what I want so I'll just string him along."  They are thinking "this guy is trying to pressure me into sex (which we all cannot stand btw) and he is now the last guy I would consider having sex with."  Since she was from out of town and leaving and because you told her what you wanted exactly, she knew this was going to be a one night stand she'd regret.  It is totally just her way of telling you what she feels without having to injure your pride or manhood.  My reaction to your tricks etc. probably would have been the same.  But as you pressed her and tried to corner her, she was desperately trying to signal "this is a no go" and furthermore you becoming pushier, she was thinking how do I get out of this situation and thanking her lucky stars that she had a roommate which made it easier to wiggle her way out. 

I don't tell you this to be unkind.  But I just want to give you an honest woman's perspective on this. And if you don't believe me, I'm sure there are videos from women who have reported being raped. They have plenty to say about deceitful men.  Even while you try to be honest, you are being deceitful and we can smell it a mile away.  Our wiring is set to sound an alarm in our heads and warn us you are not to be trusted.  A woman cannot feel sexual unless she feels safe and secure.  Some women will fake it and go against their better instincts, but they will drop you at the first opportunity.  There are certain components that women need to come together in the package you present (meaning you) the first time you meet.  It's like a first job interview.  She will ask you questions you don't even know are going to heavily impact your chances with the woman and yes that includes sex.  It's very complicated and when you ask a woman what she wants in a man, she may mentally wander around trying to figure it out and may even change subjects because she doesn't really know.  It's all unconscious and programed into her subconscious and you can't change it no matter how many tricks you apply unless you have the key to her subconscious. So there you have it.  I'll get off my soapbox now and you carry on.  I like the majority of your videos btw.

[peqkno]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Her game is playing coy and pretending sex is special.

If that's true I would have never guessed this.
And oh God, there's more implications to this I don't see yet...

 

9 hours ago, Godishere said:

Are woman more or manipulative then Men? Genuine question from a non-bias perspective. Or do we just have different needs and we are all as manipulative as each other.

Think there are some old threads were this was argued about... let's not derail this thread for arguing about that. I'd say the degree to which you manipulate has nothing to do with gender, but how dense one's ego is.

 

@EnlightenmentBlog Thanks! That reply did bring some clarity.

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, Eternity said:

Had you pulled her into the bathroom, she may very well have said you raped her.  The bottom line was she was not interested in you sexually.

No, she was very interested. Just the usual games and BS. It was not even close to rape.

Girls often make BS excuses before sex. It's all part of the game. She can't appear like a slut.

[StarStruck]

Girls just follow their instincts like a robot but the culture can modify their instincts. 

The answer to the question depends in which country you ask it. 

 

[Raze]

8 hours ago, Eternity said:

 We are wired to be selective.  Nature intends that a women mate only with a compatible partner i.e. one that she could bond to so that her babies will have a stable father figure who is going to be there for his children. 

This isn't true at all. Women will sleep with men who are irresponsible/dangerous/fun, often times very soon after meeting them. 

Edited April 3, 2021 by Raze

[soularlight]

12 hours ago, Eternity said:

Leo you are a very smart guy, and I appreciate how much effort you put into helping others.  I hate to criticize, but I have a different perspective than you on the your dating experience as you describe it.  And yes, I know I wasn't there.  But you assumed said girl was into the possibility of having sex.  Had you pulled her into the bathroom, she may very well have said you raped her.  The bottom line was she was not interested in you sexually.  She wasn't playing games.  Women in general (except maybe gang girls) dislike conflict.  We are not wired to just flat out tell others the bad news.  And the bad news was that you did not turn her on from the get go.  Something was off to her.  This is not stuff women calculate or even do consciously.  We are wired to be selective.  Nature intends that a women mate only with a compatible partner i.e. one that she could bond to so that her babies will have a stable father figure who is going to be there for his children.  There is nothing, believe me, that is calculated in this.  Women are not thinking "ok, this isn't what I want so I'll just string him along."  They are thinking "this guy is trying to pressure me into sex (which we all cannot stand btw) and he is now the last guy I would consider having sex with."  Since she was from out of town and leaving and because you told her what you wanted exactly, she knew this was going to be a one night stand she'd regret.  It is totally just her way of telling you what she feels without having to injure your pride or manhood.  My reaction to your tricks etc. probably would have been the same.  But as you pressed her and tried to corner her, she was desperately trying to signal "this is a no go" and furthermore you becoming pushier, she was thinking how do I get out of this situation and thanking her lucky stars that she had a roommate which made it easier to wiggle her way out. 

I don't tell you this to be unkind.  But I just want to give you an honest woman's perspective on this. And if you don't believe me, I'm sure there are videos from women who have reported being raped. They have plenty to say about deceitful men.  Even while you try to be honest, you are being deceitful and we can smell it a mile away.  Our wiring is set to sound an alarm in our heads and warn us you are not to be trusted.  A woman cannot feel sexual unless she feels safe and secure.  Some women will fake it and go against their better instincts, but they will drop you at the first opportunity.  There are certain components that women need to come together in the package you present (meaning you) the first time you meet.  It's like a first job interview.  She will ask you questions you don't even know are going to heavily impact your chances with the woman and yes that includes sex.  It's very complicated and when you ask a woman what she wants in a man, she may mentally wander around trying to figure it out and may even change subjects because she doesn't really know.  It's all unconscious and programed into her subconscious and you can't change it no matter how many tricks you apply unless you have the key to her subconscious. So there you have it.  I'll get off my soapbox now and you carry on.  I like the majority of your videos btw.

What you say here feels true to me and I am a man. Thank you for sharing this. "A woman cannot feel sexual unless she feels safe and secure" is exactly what Corey Wayne teaches, he is a dating coach. He seems to have a pretty balanced approach. 

[Leo Gura]

This idea that women don't play games is the biggest load of BS I've ever heard.

[soularlight]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

This idea that women don't play games is the biggest load of BS I've ever heard.

Yes, there are definitely women that play games. Just as well as there are women that don't. Since you are imagining your experience, perhaps it would do you well to imagine something else. You are God after all, aren't you? So what are you saying about yourself (women)? And who is creating that experience? Can you not imagine differently and create different types of experiences that are more aligned with "your" God-Realization?

[WaveInTheOcean]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This idea that women don't play games is the biggest load of BS I've ever heard.

careful here. 

There is also the game of playing authentic. Believe it or not, some women are into authenticity and self-development, spirtuality etc. Maybe such a woman who are into these things doesn't care about any other games than being authentic, even though that is the hardest game to play.

I get what you mean. The "standard" 18-30 year old stage blue/orange "girl" of course always plays by the book in dating. But... there are other women out there.

Yes, it lies deep encoded into women's nature/personality to play/behave in certain predictable ways in regards to the game of mating. (same goes for men). But don't you believe it's possible to sort of become self-conscious of these patterns and transcend it? For both men and women.

Edited April 4, 2021 by WaveInTheOcean

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

But don't you believe it's possible to sort of become self-conscious of these patterns and transcend it?

I'll believe it when I see it.

Just because you become more conscious does not mean what you're attracted to changes. The idea that conscious girls are above game is silly. A girl is a girl and they are all fundamentally attracted to the same basic things. As are guys.

[Lyubov]

I've noticed there is a spectrum of sorts of how people are sort of basing their paradigms and navigating or conceptualizing attraction. On one end there is the sexual value marketplace and heavily pragmatic people (example: pick up advice) and on the other there are the people who subscribe to  notions of deep relationship building, authenticity, etc (example: those teal swan videos). Kinda reminds me of how life in general is sort of a balance between the physical and the spiritual. Going too far to either side can create an imbalance and usually lead to an outcome people wouldn't prefer. I'm in the process of sort of reconciling the more pragmatic side myself with the more divine/emotional/honest side. I think it's downright foolish to deny that there is a sexual value market place and both sides of the dynamic when it comes to masculine/feminine are playing their own game with their own interests mostly/solely in mind, all the same I don't think it's good to reduce it all down to just that cause it can make it seem very cold and overly and unnecessarily brutal and limit opportunities of growing in this domain. 

Edited April 4, 2021 by Lyubov

[Lyubov]

If I was to list some of "her game" without going too much into the why...

- Making men work for sex and have them jump through all sorts of hoops and obstacles and ace tests before they get it, this is partially obstacles set up by the girl and just general stuff set up by life that comes between relationships. I could expand on this and write ten other bullets based off just this one but you get my point. 

- Keeping their options open and playing the field even though it may not appear that way when you are on a date with her, she is likely talking to a few other guys and there are likely a few behind them waiting to get her attention 

- Protecting her reputation and societal stuff about how women should be, she is being partially influenced by various other aspects outside of her coming into play, friends, society view of easy women, etc.

I would say these are three main points. Dunno what else to add to this for now. Leo described it best, it is more subtle and coy the way it is done. These are not overtly or communicated in a sort of cold masculine way  (duh!!!)

Edited April 4, 2021 by Lyubov

[Eternity]

What a smart group of people Leo has assembled here on his forum.  Leo who has attracted a group of advanced, experiencers with those who are less experienced so that we can all help one another has done a brilliant job and raised awareness of mankind which I like most.  I enjoyed every comment here and benefited by many of them, some more, some less.  But the whole group is top notch.

I do want you to succeed Leo although at times I may not sound like it.  So, because my husband is a very open person and doesn't hide his opinion from anyone (he is German, born and bred there, and everyone there is opinionated and does not shy away from speaking out honestly and he was quite the chick magnet prior to marriage) I asked him his opinion of your video. What he said was not something I would enjoy telling you.  He isn't into spirituality at all.  So he puts his unvarnished opinions right out there.  He hasn't seen any of your videos either except this one.  However, in the mildest terms I can think of he said upon watching your video and dating concepts that you are delusional and at first glance he wouldn't date you either.  As I've said here before, it comes down to looks.  Women have a certain ideal of who they would like to get with just like men. He said you looked shady, and untrustworthy and your facial features were out of balance and your teeth bothered him (sadly that is an expensive fix). Now this was only one person's opinion, so it won't matter what he said or thinks to you.  But women are not oblivious to looks just as men aren't oblivious.  And nothing will change that just as I can't expect you or any other man to change his basic operating system to suit mine.  Okay, we can all use some help with our looks.  I'm not a gorgeous hollywood beauty.  And you are not the standard leading movie star type handsome guy.  But I use makeup and have my hair styled. I've had a makeup artist teach me which features you can accent and what colors bring out the best features. These weren't expensive fixes.  The makeup artist I saw was a coupon deal but he did makeup for our local t.v. news announcers, the hair stylist was a one time deal because I found a cheaper stylist who did the same style for me for about 2/3 less than the other stylist.  No I'm not recommending you use makeup, although there are products specifically made for men to appear naturally more handsome like face cream that gives you a tanned look (and I don't mean the orange tan like Trump wears).  I'm just saying the more you enhance your looks the more you go up in value to a woman.  A good looking man is a status symbol for a woman.  She can brag about him to her gfs.  It shows she is a woman of value.

Women will allow a handsome man many more chances than a plain ordinary guy whose pale head appears to float mysteriously in a black void.  Why? Because his value rose when he improved on his looks.  Would it make sense for someone selling a house to leave it behind for viewing with a backed up toilet, pealing paint, rusted gutters, cracks in the foundation, termite damage, and a yard with nothing but overgrown weeds? This is where I agree with the market value of in our surrealistic dream world. I'm in no way dissing God here, because the creator of all that is and I and you and all beings are Dreamers of the dreamworld (or worlds if you like) together equally.

So in your perspective if you are interesting and funny and doing well in a popular internet platform, that is enough.  But in fact it's only average enough.  The cornerstone, in the dating world is looks.  The rest are add ons.  So you are now trying to sell this house of yours without the foundation it needs.  The price of your house, to you in the going market seems to sync up.  But to the average buyers it isn't worth the money to accept a house with a cracked foundation, rusting gutters, a yard that needs work and an exterior that needs a paint job etc.  They'd rather pay a bit more for a house that won't require a complete over haul for something with more value built in.

Your buyers, Leo, are women.  You aren't a lost cause by any means.  But when I say you've gotten ahead with what you offer in your market, i.e. dating and sex, wouldn't it be less work and more fun to have women handing you their phone numbers or falling into your arms unsolicited?  I can 99.9% guarantee that women would not be making lame excuses (what you like to label "games") for why they can't sleep with you.  We are born with the intuition to feel, to have a sense about what you are trying to hide.  Why do kids say their moms have eyes in the back of their heads?  Because we have an intuitive feel for what they are up to. We have to, to protect our babies.  If you want to label our intuition BS, be my guest.  I see where this Meta philosophy can be a great "out" for less than ethical ideals.  If a woman is highly sexually attracted, you won't have to jump through hoops.  Which is why I still say, I don't  believe the girl in your example was attracted sexually.  Some women will give up and give in because you have made yourself a pest, maybe even an entertaining pest, so they tolerate you because they had nothing else going on.  But don't flatter yourself that they are all sexually attracted even if they think you somewhat witty and go along with your little charade pretending you are more interesting than they actually think.  It's flattering to her for someone to show an interest, so why not encourage him?  But when you stray into badgering territory then you are suddenly persona non grata.  And I still say if you had actually grabbed her and cornered her in the bathroom, in my state of Washington at least, she could have cried rape on you for non-consensual sex. You didn't have the foundation you needed for your value to be high enough to her in this case.  It is the egoic mind that requires you to defend your position to the bitter end.  I am dreaming this now along with you, and ego has been quite skillful at convincing me to pound my point home.  But I'm going to shut my pie hole instead now.  I've said too much all ready.

[intotheblack]

8 hours ago, Eternity said:

If a woman is highly sexually attracted, you won't have to jump through hoops.  Which is why I still say, I don't  believe the girl in your example was attracted sexually.  Some women will give up and give in because you have made yourself a pest, maybe even an entertaining pest, so they tolerate you because they had nothing else going on.

agree.  If a girl is highly sexually attracted, she will come to you naturally...genuine sexual attraction is like a magnetic pull.  A girl who is sexually attracted to a guy will make it known from her actions.  If that girl was sexually attracted there wouldn’t be any need for subtle manipulation techniques or force. 

If there is games and she’s pulling away etc. it’s because she’s unsure about if she’s attracted or not, she feels ‘meh’ and there is no desire from her side so she is evasive.  This is when manipulation techniques might work on a girl to get her to have sex with you.  But it’s not authentic attraction and games have to be played. 

Edited April 4, 2021 by intotheblack

[RendHeaven]

2 hours ago, intotheblack said:

agree.  If a girl is highly sexually attracted, she will come to you naturally...genuine sexual attraction is like a magnetic pull.  A girl who is sexually attracted to a guy will make it known from her actions.  If that girl was sexually attracted there wouldn’t be any need for subtle manipulation techniques or force. 

If there is games and she’s pulling away etc. it’s because she’s unsure about if she’s attracted or not, she feels ‘meh’ and there is no desire from her side so she is evasive.  This is when manipulation techniques might work on a girl to get her to have sex with you.  But it’s not authentic attraction and games have to be played. 

bahaha so you're telling all of us that you'll initiate sex by tearing off your clothes and spreading your legs for a new man on day 1 based on pure attraction alone?

Bullshit.

Your "game" is staying coy and passive; waiting for him to initiate, or otherwise postponing sex until days later. Doesn't matter how attracted you are.

In fact, arguing that "if the man has to manipulate, the girl was never attracted" is naive as hell. If that was true, same-day-lays would be physically impossible.

you say "she will come to you naturally" but that is exactly what happened with Leo.

She was there with him the whole damn night. The fact that she didn't just leave shows us she was attracted. 

[integral]

@RendHeaven @intotheblack When a girl is really attracted to a guy they can become very obvious about it. Like little school girls with a crush. But that's one situation, there are many... i think people are being a little one dimensional about this topic. 

Edited April 4, 2021 by integral