What is good/right, and what is bad/wrong

[Blackhawk]

I think I have found the definitive answer to what is good/right and what is bad/wrong. And it applies to everything.

This is actually obvious, but it's still nice to consciously be aware of it and understand it, because then you can consciously do a suffering calculation for every decision and opinion. And it should maximize the chance of making right decisions, having healthy opinions, and be a good person.

Good/right is that which in total causes least amount of suffering for everyone involved. 

Bad/wrong is that which in total causes more suffering for everyone involved.

 

The examples where this can be applied are endless since it applies to everything. You can make rational calculations about everything, what will result in least amount of total suffering? Although with some things it can be difficult to make the calculation. And you also have to see the suffering total thing in a long term time perspective, unfortunately the human intellect can't predict what effect a decision/action today will have in a million years, but this should at least be a start.

 

Topics like: abortion. Gun control. Right wing vs left wing. Which countries are good and which are bad. Who is wrong and who is right when a couple is fighting. Humanitarian interventions with military. Should you quit your job or stay. Should you go to bed now or not. Euthanasia. Suicide. Break up with partner or not. Nuke Japan (in WW2) or not. Brush your teeth or not.

 

Some things which are easy to calculate: abortion is good, since the fetus doesn't suffer at all from it, but the parents (and probably the child) escapes lots of suffering (ofc assuming that there's a good reason for the abortion.)

Guns should be banned in USA. The suffering caused by everyone shooting everyone constantly every day 24/7 is much higher than the suffering caused by not owning a toy.

Euthanasia. There should definitely be euthanasia in all countries.

Suicide. From my point of view I should definitely kill myself. It would spare me a lot of suffering. There's no question about that. But since it would completely destroy the lives of my parents, the win for me not having to suffer is probably less than two lives getting completely destroyed. So the suffering total calculation tells me to not kill myself.

USA nuking Japan in WW2. It was probably the right thing to do because if Japan hadn't surrendered then more lives would've been lost and it would had resulted in a larger suffering total.

Right wing is wrong and left wing is right. Because I think right wing causes more suffering, because they are selfish etc.

Suffering every day a tiny bit by brushing your teeth has a lower suffering total than not brushing your teeth and then your teeth rot away.

 

So really, anything that causes least amount of suffering is good and right. Now let's in our lives rationally calculate our actions, decisions and opinions based on the suffering total formula.

Edited March 28, 2021 by Blackhawk

[neovox]

But what about when you have to cause immediate suffering for a greater good?

Sometimes I work in a pediatric emergency room. Protocol for a baby with a fever is lumbar puncture. I'm a grunt, so my job is to hold down the baby while the doctor sticks a needle in its spine for fluid. Many times the meningitis results negative. Turns out to be a cold or flu. So what of the suffering the baby endured? The parents? I don't exactly enjoy the experience, nor the doctor.

 Can we presume to map suffering? The answer is its ALL right. The wrong exists only in perspective. The wrong is judgment itself.

[Blackhawk]

1 hour ago, neovox said:

But what about when you have to cause immediate suffering for a greater good?

Sometimes I work in a pediatric emergency room. Protocol for a baby with a fever is lumbar puncture. I'm a grunt, so my job is to hold down the baby while the doctor sticks a needle in its spine for fluid. Many times the meningitis results negative. Turns out to be a cold or flu. So what of the suffering the baby endured? The parents? I don't exactly enjoy the experience, nor the doctor.

 Can we presume to map suffering? The answer is its ALL right. The wrong exists only in perspective. The wrong is judgment itself.

Since many times it's negative.. the suffering total gets more difficult to calculate. I guess in the calculation you need 10 000 or something babies and then calculate the average suffering total in the 10 000 baby cases. Then you would get the answer if the lumbar punctuation procedure is worth it or if it should be stopped.

Suffering= wrong. Not everything is right. This is a holy rule. This can be easily proved: you don't want to put your hand in fire or something. And you don't want anyone to pour acid into your eyes or something. Labeling suffering as right is just mental masturbation until you actually experience the suffering.

"A hundred scriptures may declare that fire is cold or that it is dark; still they possess no authority in the matter."
- Adi Shankara

Edited March 28, 2021 by Blackhawk

[neovox]

@Blackhawk Suffering feels negative from a certain perspective. It doesn't make it so. See the value in it. Recall in your own experience when you suffered acutely but the broader result was positive.

Edited March 28, 2021 by neovox

[PureRogueQ]

In my opinion what you are doing here playing games that you can't win. 

[Megan Alecia]

Good = that which corresponds to truth

Bad = that which denies the truth

[Someone here]

Completely relative.. Subjective.. And fluid. 

[Blackhawk]

3 hours ago, neovox said:

Recall in your own experience when you suffered acutely but the broader result was positive.

Yes, that's why I said suffering total.

I'm not denying that it's good to suffer today so you suffer less tomorrow. I include that stuff.

Everything you do in life is trying to suffer as little as possible, including for example suffering today to suffer less in a year.

So you do think suffering is bad and wrong, you're just not aware of it. You're even in this forum and reading this post because you are trying to suffer less.

You are all like fish swimming in water, not being aware of the water.

You can deny it all you want but I know I'm right.

Edited March 28, 2021 by Blackhawk

[neovox]

7 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

Everything you do in life is trying to suffer as little as possible, including for example suffering a bit today to suffer less in a year.

This is true.

I just try to not think of the suffering as "wrong". The angle is not right/ wrong or good/bad.

[PureRogueQ]

Just now, neovox said:

This is true.

I just try to not think of the suffering as "wrong". The angle is not right/ wrong or good/bad.

This is the problem, everyone thinks ego is only bad, suffering, but ego can take any shape, it can pretend to be all holy light, good compassionate, non judgemental. Just stroking itself. 

[neovox]

16 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

I'm not denying that it's good to suffer a bit today so you suffer less tomorrow.

 How can it be right/wrong or good/bad, if you don't know if this is the case?

[Blackhawk]

10 minutes ago, neovox said:

 How can it be right/wrong or good/bad, if you don't know if this is the case?

It's difficult to know which calculation in the end results in the least amount of total suffering.

But your ignorance of not knowing the correct calculation doesn't mean that a big amount of total suffering is good. Try to see the big picture.

[neovox]

1 minute ago, Blackhawk said:

But your ignorance of not knowing the correct calculation doesn't mean that a big amount of total suffering is good. Try to see the big picture.

That is exactly what it means. The constant gravity that is Love is this

[Breakingthewall]

collective suicide of all humanity = absolute good

[freejoy]

Right or wrong is relative and contextual in the relative world.

Intention is the main thing. Once intention is dialed in then one trust their natural responses.

Enlightened Ones can seem to get fiercely angry.

[Blackhawk]

30 minutes ago, freejoy said:

Right or wrong is relative and contextual in the relative world.

Intention is the main thing. Once intention is dialed in then one trust their natural responses.

Enlightened Ones can seem to get fiercely angry.

I think truly enlightened beings strive to reduce suffering in conscious beings.

And the opposite is also true: the less conscious someone is the less that person cares about others suffering. More selfishness is a direct result of low consciousness.

And the entire teaching of Buddha was about cessation (nirodha) of suffering (dukkha).

[Blackhawk]

"Who can enjoy enlightenment and remain indifferent to suffering in the world? This is not in keeping with the Way. Only those who increase their service along with their understanding can be called men and women of Tao."

- Lao Tzu

 

“You do not like to suffer yourself. How can you inflict suffering on others?”

- Ramana Maharshi

Edited March 28, 2021 by Blackhawk

[Boethius]

@Blackhawk You might enjoy reading the 19th century classic Utilitarianism by John Stuart Mill, as he develops a similar idea (maximizing human happiness) in a great amount of detail and nuance.

[freejoy]

Express yourself completely,
then keep quiet.
Be like the forces of nature:
when it blows, there is only wind;
when it rains, there is only rain;
when the clouds pass, the sun shines through.

If you open yourself to the Tao,
you are at one with the Tao
and you can embody it completely.
If you open yourself to insight,
you are at one with insight
and you can use it completely.
If you open yourself to loss,
you are at one with loss
and you can accept it completely.

Open yourself to the Tao,
then trust your natural responses;
and everything will fall into place.

The Tao Te Ching
by Lao Tzu