Republicans are threatening voting rights all over the US!

[Hardkill]

6 hours ago, Forestluv said:

@Woke456 Imo, you make a good point about 3rd parties - yet the way you are constructing categories is biased. If you want to take a closer look into subcategories, it is much more nuanced than your categories and those boundaries get blurry. 

For example, in the context of SD - it seems like you are trying to say that blue + lower Orange = "conservative" and upper Orange + green = "progressive". Yet this depends on were we draw the line between "conservative" vs "progressive". There are major differences between drawing the line at Blue, lower Orange or upper Orange. 

The meaning of "conservative" is fluid and constantly evolving. 

In today's climate in America, I would draw the conservative line at upper blue as represented by Trumpism / MAGA. Libertarians at middle Orange would have overlap with both blue (below them) and upper Orange (above them). A lot of libertarians voted 3rd party because they didn't like either the republican or democrat platform. I know a lot of people on the left that hated Trump and Biden so much that they voted libertarian, even though they were to the left of both Biden and Trump. 

So, do you think that our country has more liberals or more conservatives?

[vladorion]

It's an impending technocracy that is a threat to democracy, not conservatism.

[Forestluv]

10 hours ago, Hardkill said:

So, do you think that our country has more liberals or more conservatives?

The boundaries between what counts as "liberal" and "conservative" is complex. It involves various issues with different degrees along a spectrum. 

If people learned what the issues are, I would predict the majority of people would support most 'liberal' issues - such as M4A - yet there is lots of misinformation people believe. As well, many people define 'liberal' as 'neo-liberal' or corporate dems. In this context, M4A would not be 'liberal' since corporate dems are fighting against M4A. Rather, we could call it 'progressive'. 

[Leo Gura]

There are way more stage Blue and Orange folks than stage Green folks.

Helps to know that.

[Hardkill]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

There are way more stage Blue and Orange folks than stage Green folks.

Helps to know that.

So, then why are there more people in the US these days who are actually for culturally liberal issues and liberal judges (which are both stage Green if I am not mistaken)? Also, why have conservatives lost the popular vote in almost every presidential election since 1992? Furthermore, why are more people in our country in support of Democratic US senators (stage Orange/Green people if I am correct) than Republican US senators (stage Blue/Orange people if I am correct)?

Edited March 30, 2021 by Hardkill

[Girzo]

@Hardkill Green is spreading rapidly. Hard to judge current numbers, no-one I know is collecting statistics to determine how fast it happens. I use veganism and left-leaning politcal parties support as data points to estimate that. My guess is that in my country, Poland, the Green population grows by 50% to 100% every year.

Hard to tell, very hard. The old Spiral Dynamics infographics people sometimes find on the internet are for sure very wrong today.

But still there is more stage Blue and Orange people around than Green. Orange and Blue can still vote for Green politicians because they might be more competent, academically distinct, more charismatic, etc. The stuff that someone really interested in politics wouldn't be looking at. These are the real factors that decide the elections, haha.

Edited March 30, 2021 by Girzo

[vladorion]

JP spitting nuggets.

 

[Forestluv]

Why republicans need voter suppression and gerrymandering:

 

[Hardkill]

36 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

Why republicans need voter suppression and gerrymandering:

 

You know, I think what I just realized is that even though their may have always been more people in this country who are conservative than those who are liberal, I think that their have generally been more people who vote for Democratic politicians than those who vote for Republican politicians because most people who are moderates (in between conservative and liberal) have usually voted for Democratic politicians ever since the early 90s. So, if you combine the good majority of moderates with almost all liberals who vote Democrat, then together they would probably outnumber the combined total of almost all conservatives and a minor amount of moderates who vote Republican. What do you think?

Edited April 9, 2021 by Hardkill

[DocWatts]

@Hardkill

The problem isn't that The Republicans are a Conservative political party; it's that the entire Party is composed of Bad Faith plutocrats with no interest in Governing, and no solutions to offer for any of the numerous issues that the country is facing. 

I may not like Conservative Democrats like Joe Manchin, but at the same I don't think he's in it just to enrich himself at the expense of the country.

It's not hard to imagine a hypothetical healthy Conservative Party within the framework of a pluralistic Democracy, but it's sure as shit not the modern Republican party.

There was an interesting article I came across from the Atlantic a while back that made a pretty convincing case the Republican Party is undergoing the same kind of rot that the Soviet Communist Party underwent in the 1970s and 1980s before the USSR's collapse.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/618132/

[Lyubov]

On 4/5/2021 at 7:38 PM, vladorion said:

JP spitting nuggets.

 

Jp is such a moron. He is basically a right winger dressed as a hippie. 

[Leo Gura]

On 3/30/2021 at 8:24 AM, Hardkill said:

So, then why are there more people in the US these days who are actually for culturally liberal issues and liberal judges (which are both stage Green if I am not mistaken)? Also, why have conservatives lost the popular vote in almost every presidential election since 1992? Furthermore, why are more people in our country in support of Democratic US senators (stage Orange/Green people if I am correct) than Republican US senators (stage Blue/Orange people if I am correct)?

In US urban areas Blue is quickly dying out. For consevatives to win the popular vote they need lots of stage Blue support, but this kind of support is dying out fast as Americans shift Orange. Trump appealed a lot to Orange conservatives.

It is possible to overpower Green by appealing to Blue/Orange, which was Trump's strategy.

But it's also possible to overpower Blue by appealing to Green/Orange, which Biden did. And also Biden isn't so threatening to Blue. Biden exhibits many healthy Blue qualities. So overall Biden hits all the right notes with Blue, Orange, Green. There is a bit there for everyone to like and not much to hate. It's hard to hate Biden. This is one of the keys to his success. The only people who hate Biden are extremists, who are a minority.

[PigeonPark]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

In US urban areas Blue is quickly dying out. For consevatives to win the popular vote they need lots of stage Blue support, but this kind of support is dying out fast as Americans shift Orange. Trump appealed a lot to Orange conservatives.

It is possible to overpower Green by appealing to Blue/Orange, which was Trump's strategy.

But it's also possible to overpower Blue by appealing to Green/Orange, which Biden did. And also Biden isn't so threatening to Blue. Biden exhibits many healthy Blue qualities. So overall Biden hits all the right notes with Blue, Orange, Green. There is a bit there for everyone to like and not much to hate. It's hard to hate Biden. This is one of the keys to his success. The only people who hate Biden are extremists, who are a minority.

My whole family is blue. I’m orange just starting to dip my toes in green. All they do is talk politics, very awkward around the holidays.

[Roy]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

But it's also possible to overpower Blue by appealing to Green/Orange, which Biden did. And also Biden isn't so threatening to Blue. Biden exhibits many healthy Blue qualities. So overall Biden hits all the right notes with Blue, Orange, Green. There is a bit there for everyone to like and not much to hate. It's hard to hate Biden. This is one of the keys to his success. The only people who hate Biden are extremists, who are a minority.

This isn't a very good take. It's not just a minority or "extremists" who hate Biden, there is a massive section of the left who are pro-Bernie and didn't like or want compromise at all, they see run-of-the-mill Democrats as impeding and slowing down progress as much as Trump did. Luckily for Americas sake they didn't get their way this time or it might have been 4 more years of him, but rest assured they will be more stubborn and aggressive come next election cycle.

Then there is the huge swath of countless stage Orange working class people, skeptics, libertarians etc. who don't like him because they are generally anti-establishment and see him as a corporate shill. A lot of these people aren't even avid Trump supporters either, but they despise lifetime politicians like Joe Biden. I'm sure he was a choice for some of them anyways because of the exhausting nightmare the past 4 years have been.

I don't have a horse in this race because I'm Canadian and can't even vote, but I'm quite perceptive of what goes on and Biden definitely is not that popular.

[Leo Gura]

19 minutes ago, Roy said:

there is a massive section of the left who are pro-Bernie and didn't like or want compromise at all

I call those extremists.

They are loud, but they are not massive.

If you watch a lot of progressive YT, then you get a warped picture of Biden and his popularity. Progressives whine and yell a lot, but in the end Biden is very popular and most people tolerate him well enough. There will always be those 20% of the far right and left which can never be pleased because what they want is so unrealistic.

I doubt Bernie Sanders would have been able to pass much better bills than Biden. The bottleneck is not Biden, it's the Republicans who stonewall everything, even moderate stuff. Until the Dems have a solid grasp over the Senate and House, Bernie is useless as President.

[Lyubov]

I don't think it's just Republican's either even though they are a big factor. Society in general in the US just isn't quite ready for all of Bernie's ideas. It's a lot more complicated than simply passing a law in Washington. 

[Roy]

12 hours ago, Lyubov said:

Jp is such a moron. He is basically a right winger dressed as a hippie. 

I've seen a lot of his videos over the years, and contrasting his channels content with the way politics and culture have been going this past decade, I think his channel is the perfect example of solid Stage Orange resisting moving up the spiral. There are just so many uncanny marks showing it.

- General toxic cynicism and questioning of everyone's motives (but his own groups obviously :P)

- Neurotic attachment to logic and reason, making fun of anyone with slight inconsistencies in logic or showing emotion

- Satire of any form of progressivism, whether aggressive or benign

- Validation that the status quo is fine, we don't need to change or improve

- Shaming of people worrying about the collective or caring about the world/environment

- Disdain and satire of any form of spirituality

It just goes on and on. I can't think of a more accurate and ingrained portrait of Orange than him and his content.

[Hardkill]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

In US urban areas Blue is quickly dying out. For consevatives to win the popular vote they need lots of stage Blue support, but this kind of support is dying out fast as Americans shift Orange. Trump appealed a lot to Orange conservatives.

It is possible to overpower Green by appealing to Blue/Orange, which was Trump's strategy.

But it's also possible to overpower Blue by appealing to Green/Orange, which Biden did. And also Biden isn't so threatening to Blue. Biden exhibits many healthy Blue qualities. So overall Biden hits all the right notes with Blue, Orange, Green. There is a bit there for everyone to like and not much to hate. It's hard to hate Biden. This is one of the keys to his success. The only people who hate Biden are extremists, who are a minority.

Yeah, it helped Biden that he is a white religious Catholic American man of senior age for appealing to a significant number of stage Blue people. Do you think that Biden has as much as Yellow as Obama does?

So, is that how Clinton, Gore, Obama, and Hillary won the popular votes in their president elections?

Also, would you say that Orange folks are the most frequent people, Blue folks are the 2nd most frequent people, and Green folks are the 3rd most frequent people within the US?