What do you think of Nihilism?

[Someone here]

Nihilism is a philosophy of life which says that nothing matters. That all of existence is simply pointless and empty of any objective meaning.. Purpose or value. 

There are many different types of nihilists. The most common ones from what I can tell are existential nihilist.. who deny that there is an inherent meaning in life.. and moral nihilist.. who deny that there is an inherent morality. These types of people claim that such concepts are not universal and far from objective. In the realization that these concepts do not exist in reality.. the only sensible way I can see to get through these problems is to create your own morality or meaning in life. There are many other kinds of nihilists as well.. such as epistemlogical nihilist.. who claim that the acquisition of knowledge is impossible.

Ideas like good and evil.. right and wrong.. value.. meaning.. worth etc. are often treated as objective ideas but if you were to observe nature that's divorced from human society.. none of those qualities are intrinsic to it. Such ideas are ultimately born from the human consciousness.. and thus dependent on it. Thus they are reliant entirely on the mind that thinks them. making them subjective. And hold zero value objectively. 

The mindset of a nihilist.. at least in my experience.. is one of progression. They can see what (they perceive) is true and false.. and they abandon the falsities and move forward in the knowledge of the truth. Many existential nihilists abandon what society or some other organization objectifies as "meaningful" or "successful" and makes of it what they will. To some nihilists.. All that matters is the quality of the present moment.. Cuz that's all there is. So often they are open to hedonism.. Chasing what gives them immediate pleasure might be a preferable way of doing life since it's all a big meaningless vanity in the end. 

 

Edited March 26, 2021 by Someone here

[Null Simplex]

My thoughts about nihilism don’t really matter.

Edited March 26, 2021 by Null Simplex

[Someone here]

@Null Simplex nihilist detected lol. 

[Tim R]

Nihilism is what I would call a "pseudo-philosophy". 

Because if you draw the final nihilistic conclusion you'll find that nihilism itself doesn't matter. This is what Leo calls "going full circle". 

So one must be very careful when flirting with Nihilism, because if you're going to be a nihilist, you must push through all the way, otherwise you're going to be stuck in a dreadful, meaningless, dead universe devoid of any meaning - which isn't a problem per se, the real problem here is the mind, because the mind craves for meaning like mad. The mind is a meaning-generating machine which after having constructed meaning, denies having done so. 

So what happens when you have pushed through nihilism? Where are you after having gone full circle with this philosophy? 

In Daoism, the universe / nature / the Dao is regarded to be "purposeless".  One of the great Daoist sages was a man by the name of "Zhuangzi". And Zhuangzi was exemplary in embodying the idea of "purposelessness". I've just finished reading a book, "Sayings and parables of Zhuangzi", which contains a story about a crooked tree.

 

Huizi said to Zhuangzi: “This old tree is so crooked and rough that it is useless for lumber. In the same way, your teachings have no practical use.” 

Zhuangzi replied: “This tree may be useless as lumber, but you could rest in the gentle shade of its big branches or admire its rustic character. It only seems useless to you because you want to turn it into something else and don't know how to appreciate it for what it is. My teachings are like this.” 

 

Nihilism is only a problem when you looking  for meaning and purpose in the world. You've created the problem.

Become like Zhuangzi and see the universe for how it is: purposeless.

And then enjoy it

[tatsumaru]

Nihilism often happens to people who've become disillusioned with religion or some sort of belief system. They used to believe in god and realized it was just a belief and that they could change their beliefs if they wanted to and there was nothing true about it. So now all they see is how everyone believes in their own thing which is also a bunch of horse and can't help but feel everything is nonsense. Disenchanted with their previous religions Nihilists often feel like they need to shift the pendulum toward absolute rationality to protect themselves from believing in things that don't matter again and in the process they become disconnected with their feelings and their direct experience of life.

Before I continue further, it's a good place to inject this brief video to further elaborate my argument:

Even though belief systems/religions offer a sort of psychological shelter, a solace of sorts which can result in temporary feelings of peace and happiness and even inspiration, religions must not be equated to those feelings. Nihilism in this case is a classic case of throwing out the baby with the bath water, of throwing away the feelings that were caused by the religion and discarding them as unreliable when in effect they are quite reliable when one is honest. You see religions are simulations of life. Our brains are not so great at discerning between fantasies and the so called reality so believing there's a god may carry some of the benefits at least to a degree of actually experiencing there's a god. So in that sense feelings that arise out of beliefs can't be trusted because they are the result of self-trickery, of a simulation that replaced the actual experience.

It's tempting to think that nihilism is a good substitute for religious thought, however nihilism just like religions is a belief system that has at its core an implicit belief that everything is a belief and that all beliefs don't matter and therefore nothing matters. Any sort of belief system serves to limit your understanding of the world not to broaden it. If it has an -ism at the end that implies that you need to hold some core assumption about life regardless of your experience and try to subdue your logic to that core belief. Nihilism is no different. Why would you make a premature conclusion like that about life if you don't know what the actual answer is? There must be some mental pay-off, same like with religion. One of the big payoffs is that if nothing matters then you don't have to do anything anymore or that you can do whatever you want and it wouldn't matter. Ego loves nihilism because it means you can rape and plunder and it wouldn't matter. Ego loves nihilism because it means you can play games for the rest of your life and it wouldn't matter. Ego loves nihilism because it means you can kill yourself and it wouldn't matter. For years and years god said don't do this, don't do that, parents said don't do this, don't do that, but finally you've realized that nothing matters so we can do whatever you want. You would think that nihilism would result in some sort of freedom and happiness, yet all that it causes is debauchery, addictions, chaos, recklessness and mediocrity. One particularly nasty side effect of nihilism is that as you lose a belief in a higher power all that you have left is to look to your neighbors for inspiration which makes nihilists often the most boring, uncreative, uninspired, self-destructive and risk-averse people there are. Fear replaces inspiration, selfishness replaces humanism, envy replaces wisdom, mediocrity replaces creativity, luck replaces agency and victimhood replaces herohood.

Yet it's the beginning of something beautiful. Certainly in the beginning it is bitter. A person who realized their beliefs are false has now uncovered the holes all those beliefs were filling up and they exist in a state of meaningless confusion trying to deal with their lack of values, wisdom and direct experience of life. However little by little we turn those holes into opportunities. Opportunities to drop nihilism and become honest. Honest about the fact that certain things do matter to us, that our inspiration matters to us, that our happiness matters to us, that our friends matter to us, that our family matters to us, that our wisdom matters to us and so on and so forth. And once that happens one develops certain appetites that are more mature than the simple abdication of responsibility that nihilism offers. One starts paying attention to life as it is rather to try and filter one's experience through the lenses of one of the -isms. And that is when the Hero's Journey begins. And that is when the process of self-actualization begins. That is when the uncovering of the authentic self becomes a possibility and maybe even inevitability.

That is when we give ourselves permission to get in touch with our feelings again and not blame them any longer for the fallacies of belief itself. That is when we can finally start living a life that matters.

Edited March 26, 2021 by tatsumaru

[Rilles]

Its a perspective. I dont find it very useful, I dont really believe anything matters, but that doesnt mean Im a nihilist, nihilism is very dark and I dont see the point in moping around all day, create a happy life for yourself instead.

[Loba]

I've gotten into these states of mind only to get spiritual awakenings from them that glean towards a greater purpose and that there is an underlying meaning.  So I suppose if someone took this stance and actually embodied it for a time, something similar might happen due to the fact that it brings you to a state of pure emptiness pretty easily.  It is a good reset button for sure.
But I don't believe anyone who has gotten into this frame of mind and maintained it did so with any degree of authenticity because it is one of a mental fast track to insight and paranormal experience, even.

I think there is a balance to it that can be hard to walk across in a straight line, where there can be too much meaning, or too little.  You kind of have to reset with no meaning at all, and then from that raw experience, pull together what you can.  And then erase it again and embody it for a while, and then let that energy speak up again, and just keep doing that.

Pretty much everything that you can imagine is going to be in some sort of middle ground.  It will never go all one direction or the other.

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, Rilles said:

Its a perspective. I dont find it very useful, I dont really believe anything matters, but that doesnt mean Im a nihilist, nihilism is very dark and I dont see the point in moping around all day, create a happy life for yourself instead.

I think.. personally that the feeling of Nihilism and Existentialism is strongly distinct from the philosophical ideas they raise. Nihilism itself.. by definition states that certain knowledge.. or aspects of reality do not exist. When most people say they are Nihilists they usually mean they are Existential Nihilists which is that life has no meaning and any attempt to create meaning is a sad and deluded affair. At this point you will begin to see the muddling of philosophy with the psychological anxiety that is often present when people discover the lack of objective meaning. 

[IAmReallyImportant]

3 hours ago, Someone here said:

Nihilism is a philosophy of life which says that nothing matters. That all of existence is simply pointless and empty of any objective meaning.. Purpose or value. 

There are many different types of nihilists. The most common ones from what I can tell are existential nihilist.. who deny that there is an inherent meaning in life.. and moral nihilist.. who deny that there is an inherent morality. These types of people claim that such concepts are not universal and far from objective. In the realization that these concepts do not exist in reality.. the only sensible way I can see to get through these problems is to create your own morality or meaning in life. There are many other kinds of nihilists as well.. such as epistemlogical nihilist.. who claim that the acquisition of knowledge is impossible.

Ideas like good and evil.. right and wrong.. value.. meaning.. worth etc. are often treated as objective ideas but if you were to observe nature that's divorced from human society.. none of those qualities are intrinsic to it. Such ideas are ultimately born from the human consciousness.. and thus dependent on it. Thus they are reliant entirely on the mind that thinks them. making them subjective. And hold zero value objectively. 

The mindset of a nihilist.. at least in my experience.. is one of progression. They can see what (they perceive) is true and false.. and they abandon the falsities and move forward in the knowledge of the truth. Many existential nihilists abandon what society or some other organization objectifies as "meaningful" or "successful" and makes of it what they will. To some nihilists.. All that matters is the quality of the present moment.. Cuz that's all there is. So often they are open to hedonism.. Chasing what gives them immediate pleasure might be a preferable way of doing life since it's all a big meaningless vanity in the end. 

 

If everything would be meaningless to somebody, the person would commit as suicide at this particular moment and be dead.

Meaning a nihilist never existed. It is just an idea people give meaning towards.

[Someone here]

4 minutes ago, IAmReallyImportant said:

If everything would be meaningless to somebody, the person would commit as suicide at this particular moment and be dead.

Meaning a nihilist never existed. It is just an idea people give meaning towards.

Nihilism isn't quite wrong in that there is no real meaning to anything of itself.. but why should that change anything? Giving things meanings is kind of what we do as humans. Really it's all kind of relative to our existence.. in terms of who we are with.. where we are.. and how long we'll be here. You often sense meaning in something in that it means something to someone or something that has meaning to you. Nothing has meaning of itself.. but in existence there is meaning. There is no cosmic thing of meaning.. it just is.. but in being there is meaning. We're all in life together so there's kind of meaning in everything. Like this answer.. it doesn't mean much to anyone of itself but it does in that someone may or may not be reading it. That doesn't matter.. it doesn't mean anything.. but it also kind of does. This probably only makes sense to me.. but that doesn't really mean anything right?

[IAmReallyImportant]

I mean nihilism as a philosophy sounds negative to me because it is like there nothing for you this life can provide you with. If you really Was a nihilist there would be no reason to live.

For me it sounds like you lack of life-purpose, maybe I am biased because for me it is the case.

If you empty your cup it's different from nihilism, because then you would tend to create and for this you need a reason which is somehow a meaning. Nihilism means creation is senseless, but if so there would not be an creation. Its something in between hard to describe.

Edited March 26, 2021 by IAmReallyImportant

[Vido]

Not my style. 

 

[Bodhitree]

The idea that nothing is truly important is a consequence of thinking of the world as a dream, and so some forms of non-dual philosophy also lead there. It is a shield from anxiety and worry, which disturb the inner peace of advanced spirituality. 

[tatsumaru]

5 minutes ago, Bodhitree said:

The idea that nothing is truly important is a consequence of thinking of the world as a dream, and so some forms of non-dual philosophy also lead there. It is a shield from anxiety and worry, which disturb the inner peace of advanced spirituality. 

That's not entirely correct. While the world may be a dream that doesn't guarantee that the world is all there is and that everything is a dream. So it's not enough to only believe the world is a dream but you also need to identify with the dream as well for nihilism to work.

Edited March 26, 2021 by tatsumaru

[NK13]

Nihilism is the most extreme form of dualism. Although it's not be fully dismissed just like every every idea, concept or belief system.

[seeking_brilliance]

Nihilism is perfect. The flower unfolds. 

[Someone here]

33 minutes ago, IAmReallyImportant said:

I mean nihilism as a philosophy sounds negative to me because it is like there nothing for you this life can provide you with. If you really Was a nihilist there would be no reason to live.

For me it sounds like you lack of life-purpose, maybe I am biased because for me it is the case.

If you empty your cup it's different from nihilism, because then you would tend to create and for this you need a reason which is somehow a meaning. Nihilism means creation is senseless, but if so there would not be an creation. Its something in between hard to describe.

It's right and wrong.  technically there is no "real" meaning in life or existence.. but the fact that it happens at all provides meaning in itself. The most easiest and basic example would be humanity. There was no reason for our existence (none that we can prove.. at least) and yet here we are. And the fact that we are here provides us some sort of foundation with which to reason the meaning of our existence. if you follow what I'm sayin.  Creating meaning is inevitable yet there is no 'objective' meaning. I mean simply because meaning is something your mind is creating and projects into the world (so is purpose and value). 

[tatsumaru]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

It's right and wrong.  technically there is no "real" meaning in life or existence.. but the fact that it happens at all provides meaning in itself. The most easiest and basic example would be humanity. There was no reason for our existence (none that we can prove.. at least) and yet here we are. And the fact that we are here provides us some sort of foundation with which to reason the meaning of our existence. if you follow what I'm sayin.  Creating meaning is inevitable yet there is no 'objective' meaning. I mean simply because meaning is something your mind is creating and projects into the world (so is purpose and value). 

There are so many assumptions and beliefs in that paragraph that it's almost not saying anything worth reading. Pay attention whenever you are making a statement that's based on an assumption or a belief instead of experience - these have no value for either you or humankind, they are just noise. "There is no real meaning" - Just a belief "There was no reason for our existence, because there's no proof" That's not logic, it's just a fallacy - absence of proof isn't proof of absence. "We can't prove meaning" - Just a belief. "There's no objective meaning" - That's like saying that if you throw a coin long enough there's only one side. You are failing to account for the experiential side of reality. Meaning is not a concept nor a configuration of energy that's to be discovered under some rock. That's like saying there's no love because we can't prove it. That's not even how science works. Regardless, glorification of empirical evidence by Priests of Science encourages a potentially incurable neurosis for humanity. Nothing wrong with empirical evidence if understood in its proper place, that is, empiricism is based on objects that ultimately do not exist.

[Boethius]

Nihilists are people who have succesfully deconstructed whatever religion, worldview, or philosophy they were given as children, but have not gone all the way down the path of deconstruction since they have yet to deconstruct themselves. What I mean is that if you deconstruct the views you were given and then deconstruct your own deconstruction of those views then you come to a place of finding what it is that you truly believe. What you believe in your bones, what you believe in your marrow, what you believe with every breath you take. That's not to say that you will be able to prove that what you believe to be true is objectively true or should be regarded as being true by everyone else. But at that point you will be able to make a committment to those things you deeply understand as being true, and questions about how you know them to be true will fall away since your knowing will occur at a much deeper level. That is, you will have something of a dual committment to honoring those things you understand to be true while also working towards establishing the reasonableness of your beliefs. You will have a way of steering safely in between the Scylla of pure rationality and the Charybdis of pure intuition.

Or at least those are my own two cents as a person who has come to a place of deep religious committment! It may well be the case that a person with Eastern inflected views, for example, would have a different understanding of these issues.

Edited March 26, 2021 by Boethius

[IAmReallyImportant]

4 hours ago, Someone here said:

It's right and wrong.  technically there is no "real" meaning in life or existence.. but the fact that it happens at all provides meaning in itself. The most easiest and basic example would be humanity. There was no reason for our existence (none that we can prove.. at least) and yet here we are. And the fact that we are here provides us some sort of foundation with which to reason the meaning of our existence. if you follow what I'm sayin.  Creating meaning is inevitable yet there is no 'objective' meaning. I mean simply because meaning is something your mind is creating and projects into the world (so is purpose and value). 

Before years I thought the same. But it is just a world-view you construct by yourself. It is not different from other world-views. This is the meaning you give to the world. You create this meaning and no, your mind has not the capacity to framework infinity. If there would be such a mind, it would be more sophisticated and complex than this sentences. And then it would also miss the truth. Do you really think all this nihilist philosophers were enlightend? Not much probable.

You just want to have the ultimate or superior world-view or believe. It remains a believe. By giving meaning to meaninglessness it isn't getting better. There is neither meaninglessness nor meaning and so on. One perspective like yours or mine can never be objective. But one thing I find senseless as well: philosophing about the world instead of looking inside.

I am allergic to bullshit.

Edited March 26, 2021 by IAmReallyImportant