What do you think of Nihilism?

[BlackMaze]

I used to be stuck in nihilism for some years. I used to think yeah i know that i can do whatever i want... Be successful or whatever. There was no doubt about this but after that my conclusion always was yeah what's the point. Everything is a lie. All i did was to smoke as much weed as i could destroy a relationship and yolo not care about anything. Because it didn't matter. Maybe nothing matters but why stay stuck in this fucked up belief and let it control your life? All nihilism is, is yet another thought that is believed to be true. 

The best answer to this is the one i found in SirVladimir's book. If nothing really matters then also the thought that nothing matters also don't matter. I can't think of a counter argument against this. 

[Ryan R]

Human beings have a sort of superpower called meaning-making that relies entirely on relationships, relativism, You-you-and-YOU in relation with yourSelf. The nihilist makes meaning from whatever concepts they hold of meaninglessness. If meaninglessness is seen as sad, bad, or bothersome then these are yet other, likely conventionally unhealthy, meanings being projected over meaninglessness. If meaninglessness is seen as liberating, inspiring, or empowering then these are other, possibly humanly healthier, projections of meaning onto meaninglessness.

When we transcend the body-mind so that preceived objective and subjective reality disappear into the Nothing that is Everything and there is only perfect silence, at whatever eternal-infinite space in limitless non-space we rest we are truly nihilistic.

Take half a step back from this and be flooded with the Goodness and Love that washes away human nihilism and gives divine purpose in Life. Use Your meaning-making superpower to manifest Goodness and Love in all relationship in Creation. By all means be a nihilist, but be an enlightened meta One... or don't and suffer until you do.

Edited March 27, 2021 by Ryan R
Edited for minor grammatical/spelling errors.

[LastThursday]

Nihilists and comedians are quite similar. They both poke fun at meaning. Comedians do it to subvert, nihilists do it to transcend. But does nihilism itself mean anything? Surely meaning exists right, even if meaning is always invented?

[Someone here]

@tatsumaru @IAmReallyImportant

Most people are nihilists but they don't realize it. Nihilism is ontological - it is about rejecting what is and affirming what is not. Most people do this on a daily basis because recognizing what is is hard to do.. hard to accept.. And most importantly hard on the ego. How many people do you know are intellectual lazy and personally vain? That's how many nihilists you know. 

[Someone here]

7 hours ago, LastThursday said:

Nihilists and comedians are quite similar. They both poke fun at meaning. Comedians do it to subvert, nihilists do it to transcend. But does nihilism itself mean anything? Surely meaning exists right, even if meaning is always invented?

From what I understand.. nihilism rejects any sort of 'objective' meaning of life. So since there's nothing objectively meaningful to bind us together ideologically.. each individual should decide what his/her "purpose" is. Nothing is intrinsically good or bad because of some omnipotent moral authority. Meaning does exist. . For a person if he decides to create it. But no such meaning exists objectively out in the world. 

[LastThursday]

@Someone here cool, but is nihilism really about individualism? I'm not so sure, I sense a bias here.

Nihilism just understands that there is nothing objective about anything at all; if objective is a synonym for truth. After all truth means something. In the end everything is just collapsed into zero. Because, for example, if morality is meaningless then what else is meaningless? And on it goes, it gnaws away at everything, including itself.

If a person or a group decide to create meaning, then what is the source of that meaning? How does meaning bootstrap itself from meaninglessness? Nihilism fails to account for this.

[Someone here]

42 minutes ago, LastThursday said:

@Someone here cool, but is nihilism really about individualism? I'm not so sure, I sense a bias here.

Nihilism just understands that there is nothing objective about anything at all; if objective is a synonym for truth. After all truth means something. In the end everything is just collapsed into zero. Because, for example, if morality is meaningless then what else is meaningless? And on it goes, it gnaws away at everything, including itself.

If a person or a group decide to create meaning, then what is the source of that meaning? How does meaning bootstrap itself from meaninglessness? Nihilism fails to account for this.

You create your own purpose and values and meaning (or you don't) while being aware that you are creating it (making it up). That is if you are an existential nihilist.  If you are an ordinary person.. You borrow the meaning from religions and or an outside authority that you don't question (because you are not conscious enough to question your beliefs). 

For a nihilist.. there is no "objective" meaning flying around and that's true. and a nihilist generally doesn’t try to find a subjective meaning to life either. But here is a contradiction.. if you are alive.. that means you have found some reason to live.. something that makes life preferable to death. It is impossible to (rationally) live without a reason because we all suffer and feel pain. Without any reason to endure suffering a rational person would commit suicide.. and cease to live. So as a nihilist.. you can recognise that there is no inherent meaning to life.. and any meaning we create for ourselves is an illusion and a distraction from the truth and finding a meaning in life still doesn’t change anything on an existential level; you will die.. cease to exist and forget everything. But for a nihilist to live.. they have to have some reason.. it might not be concrete or specific, it may be complex or they have decided just to live for the sake of it.

Why should it matter if anything matters objectively anyway? Try to detach from the need for meaning. 

Edited March 27, 2021 by Someone here

[Gesundheit]

Nihilism is a Buddhist belief, or rather a Buddhist sneaky trap.
Most Buddhism-based teachings fall into this trap unwillingly, and rather unconsciously. And then unfortunately, they get stuck into it and fail to escape it. Yet, Buddhism is not an exception. Any ideology can look at Meaning through distorted beliefs instead of the lens of Actuality.

@Someone here It seems you have been indoctrinated with this belief and now are trying to move past it. If that is the case, don't worry, bro. I got you.

The root cause of nihilism is the desire to escape ideology at all costs. As if that's humanly possible. And this puts you in an existential bind.
You see, how can you escape the inevitable? How can the mind escape the mind when it is the mind itself? How do you escape yourself when you actually can't? That's right. You/the mind invents another ideology that calls itself truth and a non-ideology, and then denies all attempts at exposing that BS and explaining how it, in and of itself, is just another ideology, and then moves on to demonize everything else, so that nothing remains except that one, ironically, precious ideology. This usually happens after a human realizes Nothingness/the Formless aspect of God but then fails to integrate it and incorporate it with Being/Form.

What nihilism basically aims at doing is to strip meaning away from everything, including itself, in the hopes of finding "objective meaning". What actually happens, though, is that it strips meaning away from everything except itself. And so, it ends up creating the most hypocritical blindspot in life. Because it claims that everything is originally meaningless and that meaning comes in later only after the mind gets involved. But that's actually false for various absolutely true reasons:

1. First of all, everything is originally, deeply and profoundly meaningful. And that's absolutely true without the shadow of a doubt. Meaning exists as an inherent part of God. For anything to exist at all, it must have a meaning/purpose, otherwise it couldn't exist (regardless of what the ego-mind thinks). But the confused/unenlightened mind is not capable of seeing that. You can observe Meaning (with a capital M) in your direct experience, regardless of what's happening. Notice how there's always Meaning, regardless of the content. It's not necessarily verbal (for example; you can realize the meaning of breathing), but it cannot be removed nonetheless, therefore it is Absolute. Although, it can be denied, but that's what delusion is, and God allows delusion, and therefore delusion is Meaningful (I'll explain how later).
2. Secondly, and like others have stated earlier, if everything is truly meaningless, then is meaninglessness meaningful or meaningless? It's a nonsensical inquiry.
3. Thirdly, all of the obsession around meaning and meaninglessness is just ego. What does it matter whether or not reality is labeled meaningful or meaningless? Who's trying to figure that out? The ego, of course. And it does that simply because it's afraid of facing the truth, which is Absolute Meaning. And so it creates this cognitive dissonance called nihilism in order to avoid facing that fear. 
4. Fourthly (which really is just another way of explaining thirdly), Absolute Meaning is already the case, and the mind and all of its BS are nothing but a distraction from that. And that in and of itself is also meaningful, but that meaning is ignored and therefore gets missed. The underlying meaning that the mind misses by creating BS is that what BS actually is, is really literally just BS, no matter the label or the packaging. And the purpose of creating BS is to replace what's non-BS with it. In other words, to replace truth with falsehood.
5. Fifthly, the whole framework that this topic usually gets discussed under is flawed and stupid in my opinion. Let me explain; Why do we separate meaning from truth in the first place? Obviously, because that distinction helps us see things with a little bit more clarity. It helps us see how many of the meanings that we used to create and attach to things are in fact just delusions of our own creation for our own egotistical purposes, but the problem is that that distinction tends to run amok, so it does not know when or where to stop, take a step back, and investigate. It just replaces the old ignorance with a new one. And that's where awareness and introspection are most necessary and critical. Instead of denying meaning altogether or accepting it altogether, we can create another useful distinction, one that separates Meaning into true meaning and false meaning. And then we can link true meaning with usefulness and false meaning with uselessness. Notice that usefulness is a relative notion, so by definition, any given thing is always automatically Useful from a certain pov, which still leaves everything Meaningful. False meaning is basically the lies that we tell ourselves, and lying serves certain purposes, so even false meaning/lies remain Meaningful eventually, as everything is, originally. So, this makes for a better model.

(Note: This is not a rant against Buddhism or a personal attack on anyone. I just don't know a better way of articulating it. Please don't bother me with personal offence accusations and all that nonsense).

Edited March 28, 2021 by Gesundheit

[Someone here]

@Gesundheit I'm not advocating nihilsm. I'm asking for your opinion on it.

I think a good way to treat it is When you look at the context of all ideas of right and wrong.. justice.. value.. morals.. etc. It's all subjective in a true sense. However.. nihilism shouldn't be the end of the road for people I think. So.. ultimately life is pointless.. there is no meaning or value to anything. But we have the rare condition of conciousness.. we can "give" it meaning.. we can give it value and we can make systems to make it worthwile. So.. in a sense we can create something out of nothing and be our own gods. Values can be set upon an objective petri dish and measured and observed. Yet without losing sight of the fact that it's all subjective (made up). 

[Someone here]

Also.. A question that nihilists rise is what's the point of life? What's the purpose of your individual existence? Aside from fulfilling your biological needs...... What the hell are you doing here? ?

[Gesundheit]

@Someone here I did not say or even think that anyone was advocating anything, and you completely missed what I said. You said you wanted opinions, and I gave you mine. But then you just repeated the same nihilistic rhetoric. I don't know if you identify yourself as a nihilist or not, but it seems like you didn't even bother try to understand what I said at all.

8 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Also.. A question that nihilists rise is what's the point of life? What's the purpose of your individual existence? Aside from fulfilling your biological needs...... What the hell are you doing here? ?

There are answers to all these questions, but they are not grasped with logic/ego-mind. You can become directly conscious of Absolute Meaning as the ultimate answer to nihilism.

Edited March 28, 2021 by Gesundheit

[Someone here]

@Gesundheit OK sorry for that. Maybe because it was a bit lengthy. Could you summarize the point you're making?  What do you mean by absolute meaning?  

About meaningless being meaningful or meaningless??? Yeah it goes full circle and then it collapse into being which is neither meaningful nor meaningless. 

 

Edited March 28, 2021 by Someone here

[Gesundheit]

5 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@Gesundheit

being is neither meaningful not meaningless.

No! Being is Meaningful. I can't explain it better than I did above. It's one of those things that you either get or don't. But of course, don't take my word for it. Realize it for yourself.

[Someone here]

@Gesundheit who gets to decide?? Me or you or that dog? 

That's why I say meaning is "subjective". 

[Nahm]

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

I'm not advocating nihilsm

That’s a belief. Give it some slo mo contemplation. Put what you think aside momentarily, to see what you indeed are advocating simply by focusing on. Notice it’s what you’re sharing...while claiming you don’t advocate it. You’re the one sharing it, attempting to engage others in the same! ? Consider.... “maybe this is transpiring in other aspects of my life as well”. 

[Gesundheit]

@Someone here "Subjective" and "Objective" are just labels that you put on top of the underlying truth of Absolute Meaning. You can always choose to remove all overlays and enjoy the view of pure truth ✔

It's worth saying that I still disagree with the "absolute love" perspective and I even consider it delusional.

[Someone here]

@Nahm @Gesundheit it's a simple question.. Do you believe that there is an inherent objective meaning to existence? If not then you are a nihilist.. If yes.... Well apparently that's not correct because the meaning is projected by the individual and not inherent in reality. Being is meaningless and that's not negative because negative is still meaning. It's just meaningless. 

[Nahm]

@Someone here

Right, all three year olds would be Nihilists in that logic. Meaningless is still meaning, it basically means not meaningful, just like the thought up basically means not down. Thoughts = twoness. Won’t find oneness there. 

Don’t settle for logic, imo. Leave the wheels to the hamsters, it seems to be satisfying for them. Go prior, to intention. If your intention is to focus on nihilism and spread the word of it, you’re aligned with what you want. Otherwise, you’ve found the discord....between what you want, and what you’re focused on. If I might...don’t label it anxiety, label it guidance, even...evidence of the true nature. 

[Gesundheit]

@Someone here Lol. I hate to pull a Leo, but you are not awake.

Seriously, consider that you are currently paradigm-locked and aren't capable of seeing beyond your little nihilistic bubble because you're unaware of the nihilistic lens that you're using. So, you think that there's no lens while there is. It's like being under a spell, or an illusion of your own creation. Please don't repeat the same nihilistic rhetoric again. Open your mind. It's not us who are projecting a non-existent meaning onto reality. It's you who is unaware of the inherent Divine & Absolute Meaning. Just because you're unaware of it does not mean it isn't there. Rather, it means that you are not looking, or perhaps looking in the wrong places.

 

[OceanRiver]

@Someone here We're all just here right? Get it. Just here.