Are You Getting Vaccinated?

[vladorion]

8 hours ago, Forestluv said:

Is this the same Michael Yeadon that last October said covid is “effectively over” in the UK and that “there is absolutely no need for vaccines to extinguish the pandemic”?

I’d take him with a grain of salt. There is a reason his fanbase is ant-vaxxers on bitchute. 

The guy is not anti-vaxxer himself.

I'd take everyone with a grain of salt. Let's take dr. Fauci. Here are some of his quotes from last year.

January 21, 2020: "This is not a major threat to the people of the United States. This is not something the citizens of the United States right now should be worried about."

February 28, 2020: "clinical consequences of Covid-19 may ultimately be more akin to those of a severe seasonal influenza."

March 10, 2020: "If you are a healthy young person, there is no reason if you want to go on a cruise ship, go on a cruise ship." Later claims he advised the government to implement social distancing measures in February but wasn't listened to.

March 29, 2020: "between 100,000 and 200,000" people may die from Covid-19

Lied about vaccination rates needed for herd immunity: "When polls said only about half of all Americans would take a vaccine, I was saying herd immunity would take 70 to 75%. Then, when newer surveys said 60% or more would take it, I thought, 'I can nudge this up a bit,' so I went to 80, 85."

I'm sure you can find more.

I don't think if I posted a video of Dr. Fauci, you'd advise people to take what he says with a grain of salt.

[BadHippie]

Dr. Fauci sounds like the American version of (Dr.) Drosten here in Germany

[vladorion]

 

[Forestluv]

9 hours ago, vladorion said:

The guy is not anti-vaxxer himself.

I'd take everyone with a grain of salt. Let's take dr. Fauci. Here are some of his quotes from last year.

January 21, 2020: "This is not a major threat to the people of the United States. This is not something the citizens of the United States right now should be worried about."

February 28, 2020: "clinical consequences of Covid-19 may ultimately be more akin to those of a severe seasonal influenza."

March 10, 2020: "If you are a healthy young person, there is no reason if you want to go on a cruise ship, go on a cruise ship." Later claims he advised the government to implement social distancing measures in February but wasn't listened to.

March 29, 2020: "between 100,000 and 200,000" people may die from Covid-19

Lied about vaccination rates needed for herd immunity: "When polls said only about half of all Americans would take a vaccine, I was saying herd immunity would take 70 to 75%. Then, when newer surveys said 60% or more would take it, I thought, 'I can nudge this up a bit,' so I went to 80, 85."

I'm sure you can find more.

I don't think if I posted a video of Dr. Fauci, you'd advise people to take what he says with a grain of salt.

I'm not trying to defend a particular narrative. You posted a video of Michael Yeadon and I pointed out that he has been absurdly wrong about the coronavirus in the past and to take what he says with a grain of salt. You then respond with a long list criticizing Dr. Fauci. To me, this seems like a mindset defending a particular position they are attached to. Yet I'm not taking the opposite position. 

Imagine pointing out that a sports forecaster has been absurdly wrong about predicting winners and the other person responds "Oh yea? Well, what about Mike Williams? That guy is sooooooo wrong. Here is a list of every time Mike made a wrong pick. I'd take what Mike says with a grain of salt". To me, this would reflect someone that is attached to a position and their higher interest is to defend that position - not how to improve predictive models of sports forecasting. 

From a meta perspective, there is many more nuances than A vs. B. 

From what I've seen of Michael Yeadon, he seems to have some scientific knowledge / experience and nuggets of truth. Yet those nuggets of truth are wrapped within a bunch of nonsense and BS. People can be a mixture of insights and BS, yet it can be annoying to sift through a bunch of distortions, manipulations to find the nuggets of truth. As well, it can take some expertise. I'm a trained cellular biologist and I speak that language fluently. It's easy for me to see when people are distorting science to mold to their pre-conceived beliefs / agenda. Yet it's harder for people that don't speak science. They may see someone like Yeadon and think "Oh, he is a scientist". And then when Yeadon speaks sciencey, it all seems valid and confirms their view. 

As well, the context of information relative to time is super important. Yeadon made his comment that covid was over in OCTOBER. We had a ton of information at that time. That is why his prognosis is so absurd. The comments by Fauci you make were made in Jan-March when we had much less information. 

Imagine that soccer team A is down 3 goals with 2 minutes left in the game. That is A LOT of information to make a prediction. It would be absurd to say the team will when. That is very different than if the score is tied at the start of the game. Here we don't have much information about either team and it is much more difficult to make a prediction. If someone must make a prediction, predicting team A will win is not so absurd at this stage of the game. 

[BadHippie]

Quote

As well, the context of information relative to time is super important. Yeadon made his comment that covid was over in OCTOBER. We had a ton of information at that time. That is why his prognosis is so absurd. The comments by Fauci you make were made in Jan-March when we had much less information. 

It being over is a relative notion. There are ton of scientists suggesting it´s basically over and we are simply keeping up the numbers with unnecessary testing. 

I think you make some wrong assumptions there. We had a lot more information in January-March than you make it seem. Check out what Dr. Ly said back in January. He basically told us every symptoms COVID-19 would have back then, while mainstream media labelled them as new discoveries. 

Some people still belief masks for asymptomatic people are a good idea. Luckily now we had some courts in Germany evaluating the current scientific evidence and they now say that wearing masks is actually bad if you are healthy. 

Why are so many scientists still belief it then? If you check studies, that emphasize how important and good masks are against protecting against "Virus" you will realize that those are mostly based on calculations and bad models. Also they have culture telling them what is the "absolute" truth. They don´t want to be labelled as conspiracy-theorists for speaking out against masks or lockdown, so they have a strong bias towards believing the studies telling them that masks are a good idea.

Quote

As well, it can take some expertise. I'm a trained cellular biologist and I speak that language fluently. It's easy for me to see when people are distorting science to mold to their pre-conceived beliefs / agenda.

Keep in mind that just because you are a trained biologist, doesn´t mean you are free from distorting science or molding it to your pre-conceived beliefs. We have so many stupid scientists in any subject. Most of them are way to limited by their own perspective, so they can´t understand the big picture. 

Did you ever question the most acknowledged beliefs in pop-biology? A lot of them are way to partial and limited and don´t have a lot of value.

Edited April 13, 2021 by BadHippie

[vladorion]

 

[Forestluv]

3 hours ago, BadHippie said:

It being over is a relative notion. There are ton of scientists suggesting it´s basically over and we are simply keeping up the numbers with unnecessary testing. 

He stated it was over last October in the UK and was clearly wrong. 

3 hours ago, BadHippie said:

I think you make some wrong assumptions there. We had a lot more information in January-March than you make it seem. Check out what Dr. Ly said back in January. He basically told us every symptoms COVID-19 would have back then, while mainstream media labelled them as new discoveries. 

This is a very straightforward point. January-March is a set of data. January-October is a LARGER set of data because the January-October data INCLUDES the January-March data PLUS an additional eight months of data.

3 hours ago, BadHippie said:

Some people still belief masks for asymptomatic people are a good idea. Luckily now we had some courts in Germany evaluating the current scientific evidence and they now say that wearing masks is actually bad if you are healthy. 

I'm not famililar with those studies. I'd be happy to read some peer-reviewed scientific studies demonstrating that mask wearing is harmful to healthy people.

And I'm a scientist. I don't need courts to explain how to interpret scientific data. If it was an area of science outside my expertise, I would communicate with a scientist who specializes in the area. For example, I'm not a specialist of R and had a discussion with a specialist of R regarding when it's best to use ANOVA, SPSS or R for analyzing a data set.

3 hours ago, BadHippie said:

Why are so many scientists still belief it then? If you check studies, that emphasize how important and good masks are against protecting against "Virus" you will realize that those are mostly based on calculations and bad models. Also they have culture telling them what is the "absolute" truth. They don´t want to be labelled as conspiracy-theorists for speaking out against masks or lockdown, so they have a strong bias towards believing the studies telling them that masks are a good idea.

You are making assumptions that masks are ineffective and harmful to people after your interpretation of a second hand interpretation of science data from a German court. I'm not saying your claims are 100% false. I'm saying I don't accept your presumptions as 100% true.

If we accept that a Brazilian court determined that semen helps prevent covid spread, then we should be spreading our cum on our masks.

Be careful with assumptions. 

As well, putting "virus" in quotes is often a red flag of a germ theory denier. Denying the existence of microbes, such as viruses, is a akin to denying the earth is spherical. 

3 hours ago, BadHippie said:

Keep in mind that just because you are a trained biologist, doesn´t mean you are free from distorting science or molding it to your pre-conceived beliefs.

I'm well aware of biases in science, including my own. The bigger problem is not he bias, it is the lack of awareness of a bias and attachment to that bias. 

3 hours ago, BadHippie said:

We have so many stupid scientists in any subject. Most of them are way to limited by their own perspective, so they can´t understand the big picture. 

I would agree that the majority of scientists are hyper-focused into contracted views. This can be good in the sense that it can create high resolution maps, yet can be problematic because it doesn't integrate those maps with other maps. 

I wouldn't call good scientists "stupid". They have a form of intelligence, yet lack other forms of intelligence.

3 hours ago, BadHippie said:

Did you ever question the most acknowledged beliefs in pop-biology? A lot of them are way to partial and limited and don´t have a lot of value.

Yes, yet let's be mindful how we do so. Questioning existing frameworks can be useful in some contexts, yet "stupid" in other contexts.

As well, certain components of established belief networks might be inaccurate or improved, yet this does not mean the entire framework is faulty. For example, we could question aspects of germ theory, improve and expand it - yet to throw out the entire theory is batshit crazy (unless we enter a much higher transcendent metaphysical view).

[Roy]

Yes I am registered to get vaccinated. Just awaiting an appointment to be booked. I will list some simple reasons why I want to be vaccinated ASAP.

- I don't want to catch the virus, because that would suck.

- I'm a responsible citizen, and a first responder. I do not want to be a vector to infect other people.

- I want to be able to travel again as soon as possible and enjoy life.

[BadHippie]

@Forestluv

Quote

This is a very straightforward point. January-March is a set of data. January-October is a LARGER set of data because the January-October data INCLUDES the January-March data PLUS an additional eight months of data.

What I wanted to tell you is that a lot of data-points that were released in 2020, actually weren´t new. They were simply not looking at the old Coronaviruses which act pretty similar. Most of the Data released till October wasn´t new to me, as there were a lot of experts telling us (here in Germany) what we have to expect.

Maybe there were new ones, I just didn´t see them as new. As new is a relative notion.

 

Quote

I'm not famililar with those studies. I'd be happy to read some peer-reviewed scientific studies demonstrating that mask wearing is harmful to healthy people.

And I'm a scientist. I don't need courts to explain how to interpret scientific data. If it was an area of science outside my expertise, I would communicate with a scientist who specializes in the area. For example, I'm not a specialist of R and had a discussion with a specialist of R regarding when it's best to use ANOVA, SPSS or R for analyzing a data set.

I don´t really focus on studies myself that much. Also I don´t think peer-review is as fool-proof as you make it seem. Give a virologist a paper from another virologist and he will probably review and proof it because he has a similar mindset, which doesn´t make it true. 

Honestly I don´t see why most people are so willing to cover half their faces when they are healthy. We lose a lot of facial expression, which is really important for healthy growth in children. Even for adults (check out Dr. Gerald Hüther, most famous neurobiologist here in Germany). I think you can buy his books in English as well.

I also notices how wearing masks killed a lot of social interaction. It reduces our own inner need to socialize when people are wearing masks, as they don´t seem that approachable anymore.

Basically what you do is increasing the CO2 you breath in if you wear a mask. I get headaches after less than 5 minutes of wearing. I am pretty sure that´s my body telling me to take of the mask and breath in normally.

Also when we are healthy we are constantly breathing out viruses and breathing in fresh air, which is important to our body. When we wear a mask we are constantly breathing in our own viruses again, as some will stick to the inside of the face-mask. Then no one is wearing their mask correctly (at least here in Germany) which makes them even less healthy. People are putting them on/off a lot. They are touching the mask inside and outside and so on. 

What about all the trash we are making because of these stupid masks? I don´t want to support that to be honest.

Also studies showed that asymptomatic people are super unlikely to spread the virus. 

Quote

You are making assumptions that masks are ineffective and harmful to people after your interpretation of a second hand interpretation of science data from a German court. I'm not saying your claims are 100% false. I'm saying I don't accept your presumptions as 100% true.

If we accept that a Brazilian court determined that semen helps prevent covid spread, then we should be spreading our cum on our masks.

I don´t know how you always come up with the worst comparisons... I won´t answer to that part about semen.

Of course it´s second hand, as well as all of your knowledge about the topic of masks. Or did you do all the experiments yourself? If not you don´t have personal experience and it´s simply a belief. I am basing my view on masks more on the side of personal experience though. As well as talking or listening to different psychologists, teachers, kindergarteners, scientists, neurobiologists and so on. Of course some parts of what they say is still just belief, but I can confirm a lot of stuff in my own personal experience. I don´t think I am 100% correct. I will probably have pretty different opinions about a lot of stuff in 5 years. You as well probably.

Quote

As well, putting "virus" in quotes is often a red flag of a germ theory denier. Denying the existence of microbes, such as viruses, is a akin to denying the earth is spherical. 

I put "virus" in quotes because I never confirmed for myself that there are "viruses". Did you make control experiments, with Koch´s postulates? 

I tried to look for papers where they claim to have isolated a virus. But I didn´t find a single one that´s compelling to me (bad methodology, wrong assumptions, no confirmation process...). But I would love it if you could show me one, as you are a trained Biologist. 

Did you ever check if the earth is truly spherical with your own eyes? I didn´t, yet I still belief it being so, as I saw a lot of pictures and compelling evidence. But it´s still just a belief, even if it´s very unlikely to be untrue.

[Forestluv]

4 hours ago, BadHippie said:

@Forestluv

What I wanted to tell you is that a lot of data-points that were released in 2020, actually weren´t new. They were simply not looking at the old Coronaviruses which act pretty similar. Most of the Data released till October wasn´t new to me, as there were a lot of experts telling us (here in Germany) what we have to expect.

Maybe there were new ones, I just didn´t see them as new. As new is a relative notion.

There was an immense amount of data points released in 2020. There was so much data that algorithms were designed to process and analyze it. 

4 hours ago, BadHippie said:

@Forestluv

I don´t really focus on studies myself that much. Also I don´t think peer-review is as fool-proof as you make it seem. Give a virologist a paper from another virologist and he will probably review and proof it because he has a similar mindset, which doesn´t make it true. 

Studies are an important component of developing breadth and depth of understanding on a topic. They are not the only component, yet an important component.

4 hours ago, BadHippie said:

@Forestluv

I also notices how wearing masks killed a lot of social interaction. It reduces our own inner need to socialize when people are wearing masks, as they don´t seem that approachable anymore.

Basically what you do is increasing the CO2 you breath in if you wear a mask. I get headaches after less than 5 minutes of wearing. I am pretty sure that´s my body telling me to take of the mask and breath in normally.

Also when we are healthy we are constantly breathing out viruses and breathing in fresh air, which is important to our body. When we wear a mask we are constantly breathing in our own viruses again, as some will stick to the inside of the face-mask. Then no one is wearing their mask correctly (at least here in Germany) which makes them even less healthy. People are putting them on/off a lot. They are touching the mask inside and outside and so on. 

I agree that maks wearing can have a negative impact on social interactions.

I haven't seen any evidence that masks are unhealthy due to excessive levels of C02 or microbe recycling.

4 hours ago, BadHippie said:

@Forestluv

 

I put "virus" in quotes because I never confirmed for myself that there are "viruses". Did you make control experiments, with Koch´s postulates? 

I tried to look for papers where they claim to have isolated a virus. But I didn´t find a single one that´s compelling to me (bad methodology, wrong assumptions, no confirmation process...). But I would love it if you could show me one, as you are a trained Biologist. 

This is the cost of dismissing studies. One may believe that "viruses" haven't been confirmed. Viruses have been confirmed with mountains of data for many decades. It's ludicrous to believe that virus don't exist because you can't see them with your naked eye. 

 

[BadHippie]

@Forestluv

Quote

This is the cost of dismissing studies. One may believe that "viruses" haven't been confirmed. Viruses have been confirmed with mountains of data for many decades. It's ludicrous to believe that virus don't exist because you can't see them with your naked eye. 

If it´s like that, can you show me a bit of the mountains of data? I searched for a long time, and couldn´t find any. I don´t think viruses don´t exist, just that we misinterpret them. I even checked John Franklin Enders work on Polio. He basically took fluids from a human with poliomyelitis to tissue cultures, which he said were sterilized... Then he made the assumption that the cells were dying because of the fluids (virus). 

Yet he didn´t take into account that the sterilization process of the cell cultures, was what killed the cells... You can check this out by reading his papers. 

Edited April 14, 2021 by BadHippie

[Forestluv]

2 hours ago, BadHippie said:

@Forestluv

If it´s like that, can you show me a bit of the mountains of data? I searched for a long time, and couldn´t find any. I don´t think viruses don´t exist, just that we misinterpret them.

Whether viruses exist is a very different question than our understanding of viruses.

Understanding things like viral life cycle and viral impact on cellular function becomes highly nuanced and context-dependent. Viruses are extremely diverse and have many different interactions at the cellular level. Some people spend their entire life studying viruses. 

There are some common features of viruses, yet they are so diverse it becomes nearly impossible to make general statements like "viruses kill cells". This isn't always true. It's very context-dependent. Regarding viral-cellular interactions, one would need to ask a question like "How does HIV impact the cellular activity of T cells?".

It would be like saying "insects don't eat flowers". It depends on the insect, there are many types of insects - some of which eat flowers. 

The statement "viruses don't harm cells" is context-dependent. Some viruses don't harm some cells. Other viruses cause a little harm, other viruses cause extreme harm. Yet, the claim that viruses never cause harm is untrue. 

2 hours ago, BadHippie said:

@ForestluvI even checked John Franklin Enders work on Polio. He basically took fluids from a human with poliomyelitis to tissue cultures, which he said were sterilized... Then he made the assumption that the cells were dying because of the fluids (virus). 

Yet he didn´t take into account that the sterilization process of the cell cultures, was what killed the cells... You can check this out by reading his papers. 

No one experiment elucidates an entire process. As well, no single experiment can have every control. Every experiment has caveats. That is why experimental data is looked at collectively when creating models of cellular biology. 

I don't know what you mean by "the sterilization process of the cell cultures killed the cells". Sterilized environments are standard procedure when working with cell culture, since the broth is extremely sensitive to microbial contamination. Enders had to work with cell culture in a sterilized environment, which obviously didn't kill the cells. If a sterilized environment kills cells there wouldn't be any cells to cultivate the polio virus. 

[trenton]

I just got my vaccine.  I am scheduled to get the second dose in three weeks.  It is important for me to get the vaccine because I work at Kroger.  I come into contact with many people every day from bagging groceries, collecting carts, and cleaning restrooms.  I have a high risk of getting COVID and spreading it to other people.

If you are not in a high risk environment, I still recommend that you get the vaccine.  The point is that it improves the immunity of the general population in order to prevent mutations of the virus.

There are a few side effects of the vaccine.  I have aches in my body and head.  My heart is also beating faster than usual.  You probably should ask your doctor if the COVID vaccine is right for you if you have a heart condition.  You could be hurt if you have other health conditions.

[Consept]

I got the vaccine last week, it was over in seconds, my arm hurt a little after but was fine the next day. 

When I got it I thought, 'this is nothing, its crazy how worked up people have got about this'. In the wider context you could easily just take this and move on with your life, how much mental anguish are people putting themselves through trying by worrying about this vaccine? Yes you should always be aware of what you put in your body, but some of these same people researching every ingredient in the vaccine have probably snorted some coke without a second thought or eaten fast food from a van. 

I'm just saying do your research and let it go, the amount cortisol being used btly stressing yourself out is probably worse than the vaccine 

[Epikur]

 

[Axiomatic]

just fucking get it. you're doing a disservice to society by not getting it 

[Mannyb]

On 4/8/2021 at 6:12 PM, Forestluv said:

For example, there are lots of people that don't believe in germ theory. They don't believe germs actually exist.

What @Forestluv said here is just not true. Let's have fun and analyze this assumption of his.

 

His argument is the following: 

 

1. "Lots of people (instead of using the word many, which is suspicious for an academic to not use correct grammar...) don't believe in germ theory".

So far so good, that part is true, I don't subscribe to it either.

By the way, it's not just "lot's of people" (which implies (yes it does smartass @Forestluv, don't play silly with me ^^) that these are just "average" people), most so-called germ theory "deniers" are as a matter of fact researchers and successful natural and holistic health practitioners.

 

2. "They (lots of people that don't believe in germ theory) don't believe germs actually exist". That is just false, it's spreading misinformation and undermining these "so-called" GTD (germ theory "deniers"), which is another way of calling them pseudo scientists and conspiracy theorists. 

Here is a description of Terrain Theory, the theory the vast majority of informed GTDs ACTUALLY subscribe to:  

Terrain theory says germs can’t cause infection unless conditions within a body encourage their growth and reproduction. If the body is a poor host, invading germs cause illness. This is why in epidemics, some recover, some die, some only have minor symptoms & some never become ill at all.

In case anyone is interested in reading more about it: https://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/truth-about-germ-theory

Or am I wrong? @Village @DrewNows @TrynaBeTurquoise @ppfeiff GTDs assemble xP 

[Forestluv]

@Mannyb I was specifically referring to people that don’t believe germs exist. The people who deny the existence of microbes and that some microbes can contribute to adverse effects on human health.

[trenton]

I want to tell you that I got my second vaccine a couple of days ago.  The side effects were more intense this time.  I ended up throwing up and I had to leave work.  I have been in bed for over 24 hours with a terrible headache.

I think this was the Johnson and Johnson vaccine.  I am starting to feel better.

[BadHippie]

What are germs @Forestluv? 

 

How would you define them? 

Edited May 8, 2021 by BadHippie