Manufacturing consent

[BadHippie]

@Preety_India

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony

Another example of how news are used to fuel some agenda

[Forestluv]

3 hours ago, vladorion said:

https://newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/kristine-marsh/2016/08/15/cnn-selectively-edits-police-shooting-victims-sisters-words

"Newsbusters" is doing a worse recontextualization than CNN!!

Can you really not see how the author is filtering what Sherelle is saying and contextualizing her message.

Having a particular lens is problematic because the person makes assumptions based on pre-conceived notions as well as various forms of communication. The author of that article is assuming their interpretation is correct. I don't even think the author even considered there is another way to interpret what Sherelle said. Yet the author is not interested in actually understanding Sherelle's sentiment and message. The author is interested in their agenda. 

And my guess is you are wearing a similar lens, accepted the Newsbusters framing without a second thought and didn't even consider that you might not be understanding Sherelle's sentiment clearly. 

[Forestluv]

2 hours ago, BadHippie said:

@Preety_India

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony

Another example of how news are used to fuel some agenda

Really? That invasion was filled with human rights atrocities and suffering. And you focus on one fabricated story?

Imagine someone being kidnapped and tortured for three weeks and it turns out one of her stories was untrue. Focusing on the one story that is untrue and turning a blind eye to true atrocities is a twisted mindset. 

[BadHippie]

@Forestluv

And sending American soldiers there killing a lot of people isn´t a human rights violation? You again make it seem as if it´s okay for America to invade countries based on some wrong assumptions. America never started a war because of their "good nature" it was always to proceed with some agenda.

The fabricated story made it possible to start the war, so I think it´s pretty important to understand how propaganda is used to make people support these stupid wars. You should check out Dr. Daniele Ganser (Historian from Switzerland) who´s focusing on undercover operations since WWII, crazy stuff he reveals. 

[Epikur]

Quote

The story was cut for space 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Epikur

[vladorion]

9 hours ago, Forestluv said:

"Newsbusters" is doing a worse recontextualization than CNN!!

Can you really not see how the author is filtering what Sherelle is saying and contextualizing her message.

Having a particular lens is problematic because the person makes assumptions based on pre-conceived notions as well as various forms of communication. The author of that article is assuming their interpretation is correct. I don't even think the author even considered there is another way to interpret what Sherelle said. Yet the author is not interested in actually understanding Sherelle's sentiment and message. The author is interested in their agenda. 

And my guess is you are wearing a similar lens, accepted the Newsbusters framing without a second thought and didn't even consider that you might not be understanding Sherelle's sentiment clearly. 

I don't think it's misinterpreted. It's very clear what she says. If you're thinking about how to interpret a very simple message, you probably don't want to accept an obvious truth.

CNN actually corrected it after the full clip was posted on the internet and many people saw it.

"Unintentionally gave the impression she was calling for peace everywhere" Ana Carbera 

"As our viewers saw, she demanded the violence stop in her community, but in fact, she also said that protesters should instead take their violence to the suburbs." Carol Costello

Edited April 14, 2021 by vladorion

[vladorion]

2 hours ago, BadHippie said:

@Forestluv

And sending American soldiers there killing a lot of people isn´t a human rights violation? You again make it seem as if it´s okay for America to invade countries based on some wrong assumptions. America never started a war because of their "good nature" it was always to proceed with some agenda.

The fabricated story made it possible to start the war, so I think it´s pretty important to understand how propaganda is used to make people support these stupid wars. You should check out Dr. Daniele Ganser (Historian from Switzerland) who´s focusing on undercover operations since WWII, crazy stuff he reveals. 

Kamala Harris: "For years and generations, wars have been fought over oil."

They're not even hiding it any more. Or maybe just a Freudian slip.

[vladorion]

9 hours ago, Forestluv said:

Imagine someone being kidnapped and tortured for three weeks and it turns out one of her stories was untrue. Focusing on the one story that is untrue and turning a blind eye to true atrocities is a twisted mindset. 

Dude, you're a master of a strawman arguments.

[Epikur]

1 minute ago, vladorion said:

Dude, you're a master of a strawman arguments.

[vladorion]

15 hours ago, Preety_India said:

What lies? Tell me one 

 

 

https://www.msmlies.com/

Here's a big list for you if you wanna go down that rabbit hole.

[Epikur]

9 minutes ago, vladorion said:

https://www.msmlies.com/

Here's a big list for you if you wanna go down that rabbit hole.

Great stuff

[Forestluv]

4 hours ago, BadHippie said:

@Forestluv

And sending American soldiers there killing a lot of people isn´t a human rights violation? You again make it seem as if it´s okay for America to invade countries based on some wrong assumptions. America never started a war because of their "good nature" it was always to proceed with some agenda.

The fabricated story made it possible to start the war, so I think it´s pretty important to understand how propaganda is used to make people support these stupid wars. You should check out Dr. Daniele Ganser (Historian from Switzerland) who´s focusing on undercover operations since WWII, crazy stuff he reveals. 

I think you make a valid point about the influence of the fabricated story. That's not what I'm pointing to. Iraqi's were committing human atrocities in kuwait. It's not fair to isolate one fabricated story of an atrocity away from the actual sea of human atrocity occurring. 

It's not like someone made up a random story about human atrocities in an otherwise peaceful country and then other countries invaded an innocent situation. 

[Forestluv]

2 hours ago, vladorion said:

I don't think it's misinterpreted. It's very clear what she says. If you're thinking about how to interpret a very simple message, you probably don't want to accept an obvious truth.

I'm not saying Newsbuster misinterpreted the statements. I'm saying Newsbusters made assumptions and contextualized her sentiment. 

I agree that CNN miscontextualized her message as calling for peace. Yet Newsbusters stated that Sherelle's message was for protestors to burn down the suburbs. I would consider this a possible distortion of her message. Newbusters is claims that Sherelle explicitly calls for protestors to burn down the suburbs. Yet it was implicit. Quite often in politics, everyone knows what a person means even if it's implicit. As well, dog whistles are commonly used to mask intention of meaning.

However, I think it's important to consider sentiment. Yet it gets tricky. That is why I'm saying I need more information. I would need to talk with Sherelle. There are people in inner cities that are sick of protestors coming into their city and damaging their city. They don't see the protestors as people in their community. They see protestors coming in from the surrounding suburbs and damaging their city. It's reasonable to say "We are sick of you people coming in from the suburbs damaging our community. We want peace in our community. Take your shit to your suburban communities with your protests and damage".

I think it's reasonable that this is Sherelle's message. Her main sentiment is clearly about getting violence out of her community. That is where the vast majority of her sentiment is. This is different than Newbusters contextualization. They claim that Sherelle is explicitly calling for people to violently attack suburbs. I consider that an assumption. It may be true. I would need to ask Sherelle "When you say 'Take that shit to the suburbs' are you specifically calling for protestors to burn down suburbs or is the sentiment to keep that shit out of our community and your shit in your own community?"

CNN's response is irrelevant here because they didn't get clarity from Sherelle. I'm referring prior to the CNN and Newbusters contextualizations. Trading one contextualization for another doesn't address my question of underlying assumption. 

[Forestluv]

5 hours ago, vladorion said:

Dude, you're a master of a strawman arguments.

There are distinctions between strawman arguments, metaphors and hyperbole.

A strawman argument is using a weak, unrelated construct (a strawman) to refute an argument.

I'm not trying to refute an argument. I'm trying to reveal underlying structure and myopia of arguments in order to broaden perspectives into integrated meta views. This is difficult for a mind immersed in an argumentative mindset of "my position vs your position". 

Metaphors and hyperbole can be useful to reveal structure and myopia of a construct via bypassing the person's immersion and attachment within that construct. However, metaphors use abstraction which can be difficult for minds that interpret literally. Hyperbole can use exaggeration on a specific point to reveal insight into that point. Yet it's easy for people to miss this point as unrelated and miss the point. As well, hyperbolic examples focus on a single point and filter out larger context. There are pros and cons to using them. 

[Epikur]

 Next regime change war will be for water instead of oil.

 

 

Edited April 15, 2021 by Epikur

[Epikur]

 

Edited April 17, 2021 by Epikur

[Epikur]

 

 

[Epikur]

Here TYT the way they see it with the cop shooting the teenage girl.
 

 

[Epikur]

So yt wants to get rid of the dislike button. It seems some content creators had bad experiences with that button.

War on framing. Which framing is the best?

This is too funny. Japan is working to create Godzilla;
 

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by Epikur

[Tanz]

What's more important is what they are not doing.  They are not talking about what is health and well-being at a time where if people were healthier they would not be dying of covid.  They do not give an open platform for anyone that wants to get into politics for the right reason.  Instead, they plant in their donors and the candidates that they wish to do their bidding.  

Furthermore, they instigate and propagate news to create enemies out of other countries to start wars.