Free will

[1liamo78]

2 hours ago, Moksha said:

Awakening is directly experienced, without concepts. I understand and respect your desire to carve your own path, but don't make the mistake of believing that just because it hasn't happened to you, it cannot happen to others, or even to yourself.

Check out the Perennial Philosophy, from Aldous Huxley, based on his research on universal wisdom in every age and civilization:

• There is an infinite, changeless reality beneath the world of change
• This same reality lies at the core of every personality
• The purpose of life is to discover this reality experientially, that is, to realize God while here on earth

Rather than dismissing this wisdom as egocentric, realize that there may be a common truth to thousands of years of spiritual searching. Only you can directly experience it for yourself, but at least stay open to the possibility, and respect that maybe some of us are sharing our realization with authenticity.

that is a very good and thought provoking reply and made me think, it comes across as being very honest and rational, but I have been studying philosophy and the nature of reality for many many years passionately, and I use truth extremely mindfully and regimentally , and that includes any time I get egotistical, I know I’m not of higher than average intelligence but my strict promise to truth and extreme open mindedness plus obsessing about reality makes up for that, people who know me always say I’m really clever but I know I’m not, I’m often the last person to get a joke and I’m terrible at maths for example, the reason I say this is because as the years go by the lonelier I get because of the profound insights I have had about reality, it’s extremely lonely, but I refuse to say that it’s because I am awake and they are not, that is an insult to my fellow human beings, I have just experienced states of consciousness that i can never forget, but I know 100% that as a human being we know nothing and to claim to be awake and to have experienced a state of consciousness that leads us to believe it an ultimate realisation is narrow minded, almost everyone answered my question with a spiritual cliche, we can talk humbly, if someone asks you what part of the brain deals with vision, you can just say the frontal cortex or wherever it is without saying who is asking the question or the brain isn’t real or some other we have all heard before, you can just answer ?‍♂️
 

 

@Moksha this concept and claim that I hear every day from many different people of “being awake”, I find very egotistical and delusional, I really am not trying to be rude or disrespectful, but that is how I see it, you can expand your consciousness and gain wisdom and even reach a certain state of mind that changes your reality or become conscious of your infinite awareness, but I assure you that there are many many many more insights to get and knowledge to gain and higher levels of consciousness and I’m sure that there are many truths about reality and existence that nobody has ever come close to realising, I’m not an awakened being or an enlightened man but I’m sure there are many things that I could teach you that would drastically change your view of reality and I’m sure that there are many many things that you could teach me that would drastically change my view of reality,

god bless you and spread kindness and understanding ?✌️

[1liamo78]

34 minutes ago, JayySur said:

I don’t know about you, but ironically, I find it to be much more peaceful when I don’t try to make any choices (i.e. let go of control). @JayySur
I’m not sure I know how to do that, I would probably walk into walls and wear the same clothes for the rest of my life etc lol

that isI @Moksha this concept and claim that I hear every day from many different people of “being awake”, I find very egotistical and delusional, I really am not trying to be rude or disrespectful, but that is how I see it, you can expand your consciousness and gain wisdom and even reach a certain state of mind that changes your reality or become conscious of your infinite awareness, but I assure you that there are many many many more insights to get and knowledge to gain and higher levels of consciousness and I’m sure that there are many truths about reality and existence that nobody has ever come close to realising, I’m not an awakened being or an enlightened man but I’m sure there are many things that I could teach you that would drastically change your view of reality and I’m sure that there are many many things that you could teach me that would drastically change my view of reality,

god bless you and spread kindness and understanding ?✌️

[integral]

lol what is the question exactly? 

[integral]

On 3/24/2021 at 8:36 PM, 1liamo78 said:

is there really any point in self actualizing or in believing that we can  change anything about ourselves or teach anyone anything? It's a very pessimistic point but I cannot pretend that it isn't an issue 

Tried to address this earlier but that was shut down as "not the question". lol

[JayySur]

On 3/24/2021 at 8:36 PM, 1liamo78 said:

Hi everyone,  as followers of actualized most of us believe that free will is a complete illusion and our lives are fully determined,  this is also discussed on actualized Leo's video on free will,  so I cannot get past that,  as the more I research the question of free will it seems that there is none, and if this is the case , is there really any point in self actualizing or in believing that we can  change anything about ourselves or teach anyone anything? It's a very pessimistic point but I cannot pretend that it isn't an issue 

God bless 

Liam 

 

[Mason Riggle]

@JayySur exactly. 

[Mason Riggle]

1 hour ago, JayySur said:

I don’t know about you, but ironically, I find it to be much more peaceful when I don’t try to make any choices (i.e. let go of control). 

exactly. It can be recognized that 'trying to be like yourself' and 'trying not to be like yourself' are both 'being like yourself'. 

Your organism does what it does. It grows hair, it thinks thoughts, it makes choices, and there's no 'you' hiding somewhere inside your organism 'doing it'.  

I am always just 'being me', effortlessly. No trying neccesary. 

Edited March 27, 2021 by Mason Riggle

[Moksha]

17 hours ago, 1liamo78 said:

...as the years go by the lonelier I get because of the profound insights I have had about reality, it’s extremely lonely, but I refuse to say that it’s because I am awake and they are not, that is an insult to my fellow human beings, I have just experienced states of consciousness that i can never forget, but I know 100% that as a human being we know nothing...

I respect your sincere pursuit of truth, and your desire not to insult other people. As I see it, the degree to which someone feels offended is an indication of their ego. If someone has truly awakened, why would they ever feel insulted in the first place, given that the nature of the realization is that we are all the same Consciousness? Is it possible to insult yourself? 

You mentioned that you have had profound insights about reality. How do you reconcile those insights with the realization that as humans we know nothing?

My answer: Direct insights arise from Consciousness, and are non-conceptual. As humans, we can know nothing conceptually, except that we know nothing. We can only directly realize truth, free from concepts.

You don't come across as feeling superior to others because of your personal insights. Perhaps others, who have had insights along the lines of what Aldous Huxley mentioned, similarly don't feel superior to you. To the contrary, the very nature of the core realization is that we are all the same, and there is no inferiority/superiority 

[1liamo78]

@Moksha thank you,  I completely agree , I very rarely get offended anymore,  unless its something really unpleasant and untrue from someone who I love , people who claim to be awake get offended all the time just by different opinions,  I actually noticed that you didn't get offended by my different opinions and that is cool and very rare,  

 My Insights into reality were profound in the sense they are so different to how I and almost everyone imagines how it is,  but part of that is a realisation (or at least a belief) that these insights are relative , like a fish might realise that there is a world outside the water but in the great scale of things that realisation might be profound to the fish, it still knows nothing,  it doesn't know it's on planet in a universe etc 

[Breakingthewall]

On 27/3/2021 at 3:12 AM, 1liamo78 said:

I hear every day from many different people of “being awake”, I find very egotistical and delusional,

 it's another ego disguise, like being rich, or handsome. you can say: I love unconditionally. I give myself to others and to the world, I plunge into death with the joy of surrender. that is beautiful. say: I know the truth, I am a wise man, I have had mystical experiences and I know that I am God .... Only concept , nothing. As moksha said, surrender to don't know is the only thing that we could know

Edited March 28, 2021 by Breakingthewall

[Moksha]

@1liamo78 Love the fish analogy, and I completely agree. Here's to swimming in the ocean of unseeing, just enjoying being ?