Free will

[Danioover9000]

@1liamo78  Are you pro free will? Do you happen to be a solipsist?

[1liamo78]

@Danioover9000 I don't see it as being pro or anti free will,  obviously I hope that free will is real, but the evidence seems to be pointing towards there is no free will,  I not a solopsist,  but I am open minded to all possibilities including that nothing exists outside of my mind,  or even that I am a bolzman brain,  but my search for truth has led me down many different paths giving me many different ideas,  I was a complete atheist,  but I do now believe in a creator of some kind (don't know what) and I now believe that its a possibility that consciousness can exist after death,  I really believe that reality is some kind of technological creation 

[WonderSeeker]

@1liamo78 Indeed. Here's an anecdote to help you set expectations. I became conscious of "no free-will" this back in October 2020, and it still puzzles the shit out of me. Just this morning I was contemplating it. Isn't it strange loopy and spooky as fuck that I can utter the words "I had no control in saying this sentence"?! And it's true!! And no matter how loudly I yell it, it doesn't resolve anything. But again, it's the process that helps. I know you'll eventually get it; your curiosity will be the ignition to get you there. 

[1liamo78]

@WonderSeeker it certainly is a mind fuk, I think that the search for truth is a never ending one, but the more I do learn about reality the more lonely I feel and you do question your sanity from time to time,  my real concern at the moment is our nature as human beings,  there is alot of cruelty and selfishness and needless competition in us, ignorance seems to be a major factor 

Even with comments like on a discussion like this,  it's a relief when I see that someone is kind,  and genuinely wants to help or just have a discussion without any defensiveness or trying to make yourself sound great without any real honesty 

[integral]

2 hours ago, 1liamo78 said:

Hi everyone,  as followers of actualized most of us believe that free will is a complete illusion and our lives are fully determined,  this is also discussed on actualized Leo's video on free will,  so I cannot get past that,  as the more I research the question of free will it seems that there is none, and if this is the case , is there really any point in self actualizing or in believing that we can  change anything about ourselves or teach anyone anything? It's a very pessimistic point but I cannot pretend that it isn't an issue 

Maybe the question is not so much about free will but about pessimism? 

 Free will or not why is this bad or good?

 No free will points to -> meaninglessness points to -> pessimism

Multiple steps where taken, jumping.

Each jump a mystery to unravel. 

 

Edited March 25, 2021 by integral

[1liamo78]

@integral no bud, the question is about free will and not pessimism, it’s a major topic in the area of understanding the reality in which we are in, it might not be good news if we have no free will but I don’t only focus on rainbows and snowdrops 

[integral]

@1liamo78 

My world: No free will -> Optimism/neutral

Your world: No free will -> Pessimism. 

[1liamo78]

@integral does it, ok I didn’t know that 

[integral]

27 minutes ago, integral said:

 No free will points to -> meaninglessness points to -> pessimism

Its about the associations your making between Free will, meaninglessness and pessimism. 

No free will does not imply meaningless.

Meaningless does not imply pessimism. 

 

Free will or not? Is a question, why does the answer to a question change anything? 

Have no idea the answer to these question, just trying to point to some things that could of been overlooked. 

Edited March 25, 2021 by integral

[freejoy]

Yes there is free will.

I just have to be blunt.

Some say our world is a dream, illusion, or something along those lines.

Does it matter what you call this world? If I call it matter and someone else calls it dreamstuff ... what difference does it make? They are just names.

Okay to start ... how did you get here? 

 

[Roy]

I discovered there was no free will some years ago. Has it really changed anything about the way I've lived my life after that revelation? Not really.

It's kind of just an interesting thought experiment I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Or worry if you want, it's not like you have a choice anyways LOL

[freejoy]

2 minutes ago, Roy said:

I discovered there was no free will some years ago. Has it really changed anything about the way I've lived my life after that revelation? Not really.

It's kind of just an interesting thought experiment I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Or worry if you want, it's not like you have a choice anyways LOL

It's important.

Do you think you are special?

[Roy]

4 minutes ago, freejoy said:

It's important.

Do you think you are special?

From my biased personal perspective wired in my ego brain I'm special, even though day to day I don't think I am.

From the unbiased perspective of the universe I'm a tiny part of it that's no more special than the rest.

Edited March 25, 2021 by Roy

[freejoy]

5 minutes ago, Roy said:

From my biased personal perspective wired in my ego brain I'm special, even though day to day I don't think I am.

From the unbiased perspective of the universe I'm a tiny part of it that's no more special than the rest.

You have to be very special because your one of the lucky ones that isn't digging in the dirt for a bite to eat.

No, your possibly going to have whatever you want to eat. Maybe some 5meo.

Because you have no choice!

Aren't you sad for all your fellow humans?

Edited March 25, 2021 by freejoy

[1liamo78]

@Roy I didn’t realise I said I was worried, no I don’t remember writing that, I’m not worried 

[Roy]

3 minutes ago, freejoy said:

You have to be very special because your one of the lucky ones that isn't digging in the dirt for a bite to eat.

No, your possibly going to have whatever you want to eat. Maybe some 5meo.

Because you have no choice!

Aren't you sad for all your fellow humans?

I'm not sure the connection between material happenstance and free will? Those unlucky people also don't have free will.

Yes I'm sad for all living things pretty much all the time, it's draining actually. I'm tired and want to know when I get to go home...

[freejoy]

1 minute ago, Roy said:

I'm not sure the connection between material happenstance and free will? Those unlucky people also don't have free will.

Yes I'm sad for all living things pretty much all the time, it's draining actually. I'm tired and want to know when I get to go home...

I think Leo would agree that nothing happens by happenstance.

Where did you come from?

I think that is a good place to start, if you like?

[freejoy]

12 minutes ago, Roy said:

I'm not sure the connection between material happenstance and free will? Those unlucky people also don't have free will.

Yes I'm sad for all living things pretty much all the time, it's draining actually. I'm tired and want to know when I get to go home...

What do you mean by "go home?"

[Jodistrict]

The argument against free will is determinism based on the notion that everything has a cause and thus every event is caused by preceding events, so the present is completely determined by the past.  If this is true, there can be no free will.   But that would mean that creativity is not possible.  So, Leonardo da Vinci didn´t create the Mona Lisa. It was something that just had to happen due to a history of molecules bumping into each other.  Most people can intuitively see this as wrong.   But the philosopher David Hume proved that there is no way to prove that a cause produces an effect.  And Kant put causality, space, and time in the mind.   So, is it causality or free will that is the illusion?   The creativity of God is infinite.

Edited March 25, 2021 by Jodistrict

[1liamo78]

@Jodistrict at last someone who understands my post, if we have free will then we are the only known thing in the universe that doesn’t follow cause and effect, but the determinists are assuming that consciousness comes from a material brain, but consciousness could be separate from space time and material and not be subject to the laws of cause and effect, but there are experiments that show brain activity in the right area of the brain happens about 1.5 seconds before we make a decision, but I’m not completely convinced that means proof of determinism