Seaspiracy

[Scholar]

Another great documentary about the consequences of animal agriculture, specifically fishing, and how it is by far the biggest threat to our oceans. Must watch for every person who is consuming fish, or who thinks plastic straws are bad for the oceans. It also illustrates well why this problem can only be tackled by fundamentally changing our relationship to our brothers and sisters who live in the oceans, and by making the consumer responsible for their actions.

 

You can find it on Netflix.

 

 

We can use this thread to discuss fishing and the health of our oceans. Veganism is so powerful because it is a unified ideology that tackles all of these problems wholistically. You don't need to convince a person to care about each individual problem, rather you create a new moral framework from which all of these problems are tackled at once.

One story that fundamentally changes how we relate to the world, because this change must happen.

Edited March 24, 2021 by Scholar

[integral]

I woudnt call Veganism a holistic ideology, but it could definitely be a part of a holistic solution. 

[Danioover9000]

@integral

3 minutes ago, integral said:

I woudnt call Veganism a holistic ideology, but it could definitely be a part of a holistic solution. 

   Same, but I wouldn't call veganism holistic ideology, just ideology. Still there's some good health wise, more than the moral side.

[Preety_India]

Only solution 

Veganism 

[aurum]

@Scholar

I'm going to disagree with everyone in this thread and say that veganism is not even part of the solution.

Yes, factory farming is horrific. I've watched Earthlings and Cowspiracy, those documentaries will give you nightmares. And I understand that people think that veganism is going to save the ecology.

But veganism is just not the answer. It's at best a step in the right direction, but no more.

What people really want is to be deeply connected to their food, and to feel like we are treating animals as sacred. But that does not preclude eating an animal. In fact, it can include it.

Ancient cultures understood this.

[Danioover9000]

@aurum

5 hours ago, aurum said:

@Scholar

I'm going to disagree with everyone in this thread and say that veganism is not even part of the solution.

Yes, factory farming is horrific. I've watched Earthlings and Cowspiracy, those documentaries will give you nightmares. And I understand that people think that veganism is going to save the ecology.

But veganism is just not the answer. It's at best a step in the right direction, but no more.

What people really want is to be deeply connected to their food, and to feel like we are treating animals as sacred. But that does not preclude eating an animal. In fact, it can include it.

Ancient cultures understood this.

   That's right, Vegansim is just a tiny step in a staircase, not the whole solution. Only a tiny part among many other solutions.  Those types of documentaries, while might have value, can scar and shame people into turning Vegan, which is not the best because now they are listening to fear and social shaming rather than any genuine signals in their body to change diets. If a plant based diet works in your system, after the adaptation phase is done, then great, but some systems can't handle this diet. However, all the thought stories of animal suffering and environmental destruction in the mind will over ride genuine signals in the body that the body is in crisis and the diet is not integrating well. If the signals are continually ignored, the body will keep signaling, until a health crisis results. 

   Veganism also is not humanitarianism nor is it environmentalism and moralism. 

Edited March 25, 2021 by Danioover9000

[Yog]

 

[Fadl]

what is going on toward animals these days is stupid, but veganism is stupid as well, just talk to a veagan for 2 minutes and you will understand. 

[LfcCharlie4]

Watched this Doc on Sunday with my GF, I've been vegan for close to 6 years and felt Re-Radicalized haha, the funniest part for me was the charities supposedly part of the solution were literally funded by the main problem creators, I honestly feel a lot of charities are a lot more corrupt than we are led to believe. 

I also liked how the Creator changed his actions based on what he found out. 

I do agree that Veganism becomes a huge ideology and almost cult like at times though, its why I unfollowed most 'Vegan Influencers' on YT, Insta, Twitter etc, the ethics of Veganism says about being moral to all living beings, but I feel vegans forget Humans are also living beings as well lmao, and screaming at them is just going to push them further away. 

[Fadl]

Animals and plants are both alive .. and you need to end a life to eat. Don't eat meat if your body can handle that.

What is happening nowadays to animales is just not fair .. capitalism is not fair. but the concept of eating animales ¨life¨ is not wrong. even vegans eat lives.

Edited April 1, 2021 by Fadl

[Fadl]

The difference is, plants have no emotions, they don't scream for example .. when vegans see that they think it is ok to eat them ... vegans are spiritually challenged .. they dont use the brain.

[Fadl]

6 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

And if you really see animal lives and plant lives as equal, a vegan lifestyle is still preferable since far less plants must be sacrificed to feed you directly than when you first feed lots of them to an animal as a middleman before you regain a tiny amount of those calories back in the form of meat.

hehe 

 

40 minutes ago, Fadl said:

they dont use the brain.

The animals have the right to eat as much plants as they want. 

Look man, everybody is eating everybody .. that is life ...  you can not denied it ... we just need to be merciful and kind while doing it.

[Fadl]

12 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Please describe how you "kindly" and "mercifully" slaughter an innocent, sentient being that does not want to and does not need to die.

You kill them as fast as possible, don't scare them, and don't kill much, you kill to eat (animals and plants) so don't eat much.

Your problem is that you didn't understand that animals and plants are the same, and you gotta kill sth to eat eventually. 

 

@neutralemptymind bending half done derivations!! what!!? I was clear from the beginning, veganism is stupid, that is my argument, and by ¨stupid¨ I mean it is not true and it is delusional.

[Danioover9000]

@Fadl    Technically, plants could experience emotions, yet it's on a whole different flow of time, and also plants do communicate their pain. For example, mowing the lawn or trimming a hedge, the fragrance you'd smell is their signal to other related plant species that they're in pain and there's danger.

   I do agree that the deeper problem is the lack of a deeper connection to their food. For the most part, I don't see any value in engaging with people who made an identity out of what they eat as who they are, with their thought stories. They already made up their minds on it, and won't budge. 

[Fadl]

8 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

They already made up their minds on it,

Thats why they are stupid.

[Danioover9000]

@neutralempty

13 hours ago, neutralempty said:

yeah? which technicality indicates that?

if i cut off a battery the fragrance i smell then is the battery communicating to their friends danger, so the other batteries can run away from the danger?

So what is it now? do you want people to have an identity around their food and therefore a deeper connection or not? if not what connection do you mean?

Have you ever considered that veganism is not about a connection to the food, but stop seeing animals as food? So rather a connection towards seeing animals as someone and not something, which you dont do.

1. Plants do contain consciousness. Don't take my word for it, validate it yourself.

2. I'm talking about plants, not batteries.

3. I want people to develop awareness to their connection to foods they eat, and how they create an identity out of it, which will be defended against others who identify to different diets.

4. I have considered that Veganism is a different dietary practice, and a different type of morality. This depends on each person and their worldview.

   Also, plants can feel and have memory as well:

 

Edited April 3, 2021 by Danioover9000

[Danioover9000]

@Zeitgeist  On the basis of health, I do agree more than on the basis of morality of eating plants. At the end of the day, you make up meanings and enforce them into your identity, whatever you eat, as attachments to the body. If anybody just questions them, they get defensive immediately to protect the constructed identity.

[Fadl]

18 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

which gives me the impression that you aren't really interested in opening your mind to a different perspective.

I don't open my mind to stupidity, if you wanna be a vegan then be. 

 

16 hours ago, neutralempty said:

ts too clear that you have never deeply though about veganism.

What is deep about veganism beside animals cruelty? teach us. 

[Fadl]

@neutralempty @Zeitgeist

I think we understand each other, but everyone holds his mental position, you know if this apple you eat is able to scream, it will scream so bad, and you will never eat again.

 

 

And then you will die from hunger because of stupidity.

[Fadl]

4 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

No, not at all, and I don't think any vegan thinks like that to be honest.

Exactly, they don't think like that because they don't think.

That was my point from the beginning btw.

 

@neutralempty I swear to God I don't understand your arguments man .. maybe it is my english.

 

Anyway I was thinking about sth, really .. like animals eat other animals all the time, what differentiates us from other animals to not eat animals.