Seaspiracy

[Fadl]

27 minutes ago, neutralempty said:

and what was your conclusions of that thinking?

My conclusion is that veganism is stupid.. just hurted people trying to do good in this world, they are not evil .. but they are not realistic as well.

[Fadl]

3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Also, do you really want to descend to the intellectual level of a lion or a wolf?

A lion or a donkey are more intelligent than any vegan btw. Veganism is a type of hysteria, that is it.

[Fadl]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

It's funny when those who claim that vegans are easily A lion or a donkey are more intelligent than any vegan btw. Veganism is a type of hysteria, that is it., are easily offended and get defensive.

hehe a vegan talking about being ¨offended and get defensive¨. 

man up. 

[Danioover9000]

@Zeitgeist

On 4/4/2021 at 7:50 AM, Zeitgeist said:

Isn't that exactly what happens when you've been indoctrinated with the mainstream narrative your whole life that eating meat and consuming animal products is normal, natural and necessary, and then someone like a vegan comes along and questions that narrative? Just look at how defensive people get when being confronted with veganism, right @Fadl?

Of course, vegans do that too, but they're coming at this from a place of compassion and wanting to make progress rather than simply conformity to society's default position.

At the end of the day, the animals and our planet don't care if people get ideological about it. I think that some of it is necessary to make people become activists and bring the topic into mainstream awareness. You won't make change happen if you're always soft and never speak up for what you stand for.

   Vegans also come at this from a place of attention seeking too.

   Of course, animals and plants don't care at all about humans, because we are a virus to this planet that adapts to almost anything.

[Danioover9000]

@neutralempty

On 4/4/2021 at 7:41 AM, neutralempty said:

dani, its like,  you fall into these dogshit ideas, as if they are deep truths.

1. yeah, plants have consciousness, even batteries have consciousness, in fact there is nothing that does not have consciousness. therefore batteries have pain and emotions, right? and rocks too.

2. yeah and i am talking about batteries, you still have not told me the technicality that indicates plants to have emotions and a feeling for pain.

3. you are pretentious. Then you should develop your own awareness on the animals first.

   Looks like I rest my case. GG.

[Danioover9000]

   Bringing this back on topic, how do we stop the big fishing industries without any negative consequences coming back to us?

[ted73104]

Hey guys,

I really liked the Seaspiracy film, but I don't think the narrator Ali in the film is suggesting us to go vegan. He is only trying to think of alternative ways to combat the current sea situations. I think the real issue is how the current industrial fishing methods are destroying the habitat in the ocean. If the big corps don't evolve their fishing methods, there's no real solution to the main problem then. 

Going vegan wouldn't necessarily resolve the problem. If everyone on Earth just went vegan without thinking now, I bet there would be potential for a new film Veganspiracy 5 ~ 10 years from now.

[intotheblack]

2 hours ago, ted73104 said:

I think the real issue is how the current industrial fishing methods are destroying the habitat in the ocean. If the big corps don't evolve their fishing methods, there's no real solution to the main problem then. 

The thing is, how can we know that they are changing their ways?  Big companies can’t be trusted to evolve so it’s in the power of the consumer to not buy that product.  We saw this with the dolphin friendly label. They depend on consumers being wilfully ignorant to the bigger picture. 
Unless you personally witness or meet the fisherman who caught your fish then nothing can be certain.  
The way to make a change is to first decrease the collective demand for it.  As long as people keep buying and the demand is there, then big corps and government won’t do shit. 
 

Edited April 7, 2021 by intotheblack

[Michael569]

On 01/04/2021 at 11:39 AM, LfcCharlie4 said:

I do agree that Veganism becomes a huge ideology and almost cult like at times though, its why I unfollowed most 'Vegan Influencers' on YT, Insta, Twitter etc, the ethics of Veganism says about being moral to all living beings, but I feel vegans forget Humans are also living beings as well lmao, and screaming at them is just going to push them further away. 

Well said

I see a lot of problem with the way mainstream veganism is heading which is processed junk, cheese replacements, fake meats, chips, vegan chocolates and crap. For a long time I used to think that everybody is doing a whole food plant-based diet, they aren't. many vegans are clueless about nutrition they consume foods dominant with sunflower & canola oils, salt, phosphate additives, vegan butter, thickeners, colourings and plant proteins. 

If a vegan diet is done holistically based predominantly on whole foods, beautiful but now with it becoming easier and easier to get vegan junk so more and more people are transitioning,  see this becoming a huge problem. 

Not disputing the ethical side, that argument is indisputable. Once you've demonstrated the evidence of animal harm to somebody and they still accept those consequences by consciously choosing to eat the animal foods, your job is done, any additional screaming, vindicating and riding the guilt train makes people hate you and creates distance. 

 

[Tetcher]

Plant suffering is a real thing, veganism is only the first step in bettering things, evolution, apart from technology, would be how harmoniously we live with the all life around us. I would say that the most ethical food to eat would be fruits as what they do is to lure animals to eat them and spread the seeds, fruits seem spiritually prepared to be eaten. There is Jain veganism which aims to minimize plant suffering too, they don't eat root vegetables because it is one life as opposed to let's say a fruit which would be killed but the source of life that is the tree would keep living (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jain_vegetarianism). It's crazy to realize how advanced those "religions" are, thousands of years ago people managed to reach a way of life that we only now start to understand that this is indeed the peek of human evolution.

As for @Fadl I say it's okay you can have this attitude against people that try to push things in a better direction (as imperfect as it may be). It's just that people like you should be allowed to be slaughtered for food or fertilizer purposes, we could make a farming industry out of people like you. After all what is the difference between you and the 70 billions animals that are slaughtered every year, you think your life is more important ? It's okay if meat eaters can't realize but the least they can do is to get out of the way and not oppose the people that try to end this hellish industry. If they can't even do that then we should at least recognize the right to farm them as per their own standards. It wouldn't even necessarily be needed to consume that right and effectively end you, vegans couldn't do it, but the law should allow it.

Edited April 7, 2021 by Tetcher

[Gesundheit]

Vegans are the stage Green version of a conspiracy theorist. Instead of being driven by intellectual superiority, the driver is emotional superiority and humanitarian correctness. Not saying that they're presenting false claims, we know that mixing truth with falsehood is a conspiracy theorist's favorite technique, but that they're pawns that are being controlled by the capitols that are funding the propaganda.

I will probably start exposing the hypocritical BS of these ideologies soon, but for now, I still need to gain more clarity.

[Michael569]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

So, naturally most vegans don't care about diet. They just want to eat a standard Western diet, except now they want to do it in a vegan way.

this is an excellent point, never thought about it in this way 

[Fadl]

3 hours ago, Michael569 said:

On 1/4/2021 at 0:39 PM, LfcCharlie4 said:

I do agree that Veganism becomes a huge ideology and almost cult like at times though, its why I unfollowed most 'Vegan Influencers' on YT, Insta, Twitter etc, the ethics of Veganism says about being moral to all living beings, but I feel vegans forget Humans are also living beings as well lmao, and screaming at them is just going to push them further away. 

Well said

I see a lot of problem with the way mainstream veganism is heading which is processed junk, cheese replacements, fake meats, chips, vegan chocolates and crap. For a long time I used to think that everybody is doing a whole food plant-based diet, they aren't. many vegans are clueless about nutrition they consume foods dominant with sunflower & canola oils, salt, phosphate additives, vegan butter, thickeners, colourings and plant proteins. 

If a vegan diet is done holistically based predominantly on whole foods, beautiful but now with it becoming easier and easier to get vegan junk so more and more people are transitioning,  see this becoming a huge problem. 

Not disputing the ethical side, that argument is indisputable. Once you've demonstrated the evidence of animal harm to somebody and they still accept those consequences by consciously choosing to eat the animal foods, your job is done, any additional screaming, vindicating and riding the guilt train makes people hate you and creates distance. 

Veganism = a millennial stupidity.

it is just another industry. those people think they are saving the world, maybe they think they are heros or sth, they need to stop watching spider man movies.

 

3 hours ago, Tetcher said:

It's just that people like you should be allowed to be slaughtered for food or fertilizer purposes, we could make a farming industry out of people like you.

Just look at the stupidity of this argument. 

 

@Tetcher Could you please explain for us the difference between animal life and plant life?

 

 

[Danioover9000]

@ted73104

7 hours ago, ted73104 said:

Hey guys,

I really liked the Seaspiracy film, but I don't think the narrator Ali in the film is suggesting us to go vegan. He is only trying to think of alternative ways to combat the current sea situations. I think the real issue is how the current industrial fishing methods are destroying the habitat in the ocean. If the big corps don't evolve their fishing methods, there's no real solution to the main problem then. 

Going vegan wouldn't necessarily resolve the problem. If everyone on Earth just went vegan without thinking now, I bet there would be potential for a new film Veganspiracy 5 ~ 10 years from now.

  Jesus, if this is true then the entire thread was derailed for the most part.

[Tetcher]

2 hours ago, Fadl said:

 

@Tetcher Could you please explain for us the difference between animal life and plant life?

 

 

It was already explained to you in the first page that animals eat vegetables so by eating animals you're killing and torturing many more lives than if you ate vegetables directly. In my previous post that you quoted I also explained that different vegetables also differed. But you can't see the explanations that are given to you, you're blind and your urge to call people stupid is blinding you. After having called people "stupid" in most of your replies you're mostly just expressing how you feel rather than qualifying other's people intellectual capabilities.

I'll give you another example of how animal and vegetal lives differ : to farm "livestock" on the scale that is required you have to stack them in very restricted areas and handle them very harshly, as a result of what their quality of life is horrendous. Farming plants on the other hand, the plants live their lives as they would in nature as they don't need to move around so although the slaughtering is less than optimal the overall suffering throughout their lives is still less.

[Fadl]

1 hour ago, Tetcher said:

It was already explained to you in the first page that animals eat vegetables so by eating animals you're killing and torturing many more lives than if you ate vegetables directly.

We will go talking about this forever apparently.

You need to kill sth to eat, a plant or an animal .. their lives are the same ... if you want to save lives don't eat much, FAST every day ... don't eat.

I really think that vegans are emotionally unstable.

Edited April 7, 2021 by Fadl

[Tetcher]

10 minutes ago, Fadl said:

We will go talking about this forever apparently.

You need to kill sth to eat, a plant or an animal .. their lives are the same ... if you want to save lives don't eat much, FAST every day ... don't eat.

I really think that vegans are emotionally unstable.

Don't you understand that killing one or the other have different on impacts on other lives ? Maybe we can't stop it completely but we can do what's reasonable to minimize negative impact on other lives. For you torturing and killing 100 lives is the same as killing 10 ? By your thinking we could kill other humans since anyway  we have to kill to live, hence my previous point that it should be legal to put you in a livestock farm for meat production. But yeah we'll talk about this about this forever, you just don't get the point for some reason so feel free not to reply.

Edited April 7, 2021 by Tetcher

[Fadl]

11 minutes ago, Tetcher said:

Don't you understand that killing one or the other have different on impacts on other lives ?

Not really, your problem is with capitalism not with me, this western white man capitalism made every thing look ugly.

[Tetcher]

44 minutes ago, Fadl said:

Not really, your problem is with capitalism not with me, this western white man capitalism made every thing look ugly.

Maybe you're right. As long as you don't oppose dismantling livestock farming and slaughterhouses we're good.

[Fadl]

32 minutes ago, Tetcher said:

Maybe you're right. As long as you don't oppose dismantling livestock farming and slaughterhouses we're good.

All of us in this forum, I mean 100% of us (vegans or not) believe that what is happening in these slaughterhouses is not right and it is disgusting.