what does this quote by eckhart tolle mean when related to abuse?

[isabel]

"whatever you react strongly to and resent in another is also in you"

if a child suffers horrific life long abuse by a parent and then later as an adult still has a strong reaction of pain to what happened, and even at times resents the parent, what is it that is also in the child?

thank you

[BlackMaze]

The unconsciousness. To abuse someone means that you are completely disconnected. This doesn't mean that it's the child's fault. Because of the experiences the child had, it becomes traumatized believing that he is this traumatized human that awful things happened to him and the cycle perpetuates itself. Maybe the parents were also traumatized from their own parents. The traumatized self is a lie. It doesn't really exists in the now. It's just the pain body that possesses the mind that can be slowly disolved each time one becomes aware of it and remembers that he/she is not it. There is being hidden behind the ego. This is true for everyone even for killers and rapists. Everything besides consciousness is just a mask not the truth. But almost everyone in our reality perceive the masks as the truth (and i am not exluding myself) . 

That said it's very important to work on healing traumas and doing shadow work. Shamanic breathing helped me heal some traumas very fast. Being honest and open also. Journaling can be really helpful too. Maybe an expert could also help. 

[BlackMaze]

1 hour ago, artcastle said:

@BlackMazeHopefully this is making sense. Just trying to see how/why we get triggered and how the thing to which we react is in us too. It’s all just unconsciousness on both sides is what you’re saying? 

It does make sense but i don't really know much about shadow work or development stages yet to answer this. The pain body is a useful name that includes all suffering, all negative thoughts and emotions, irritability boredom etc. When not dormant it possesses you. Everytime you catch it you can just label it as pain body and see that you are the one that watches the pain body in whatever form. You step out of the seriousness of your situation. You go meta on your suffering. You can go even further and be the watcher that watches the watcher. Everytime you do this your baseline consciousness grows. The stronger the painbody is the more aware you become each time you catch it. Of course there are other ways. Everytime you do this successfully you can feel a certain energy rising in the body. There is a certain feeling. You try to live from this place and this is what i consider to be shadow work. Of course Eckhart Tolle explains everything perfectly in the new earth. 

The reason we get triggered is because we try to protect the ego like our life depends on it. Of course the ego's life depends on it. Almost everyone wants to be right all the time. To be wrong or be wronged by someone is like a death threat. We also want to feel above others mostly for survival reasons. There are countless thoughts we have each day that we mistake for ourselves. On a deep level we are the same thing. If you recognize the essence of another human that is the same as yours you see the others as yourself and only then you can really love them. 

Let's say you called me a name, whatever let's go with ugly. If i knew that i have the best looks in the world there is no way this could affect me i would laugh at you. On the other hand if i was really insecure about my looks i would get triggered and hurt. Now if i knew that my ego is a lie and needs no protecting your insult would have no effect on me. Even if hurtful feelings came up i could recognize them as the pain body and remember my true nature and how silly it is to participate in a cockfight. As i read recently on the way of the superior man the best response i could have is to go to the pain and feel it fully. Open up my chest breath deeply and look you straight in the eyes. 

Let's say you judge a killer for being a killer. That is a bad thing to be right? After all you are this great person that goes to church let's say. You would never do something like this! You are nothing like him! This is where you are wrong. Both stuck at ego mind. If you changed places and you had the same experiences or chemistry or whatever as him you would do exactly the same thing. I don' t really like Jordan Peterson much but at least i learned this from him (and to clean my room). 

On the other hand if you could understand this and at the same time recognize the hidden being behind the killer you could love him as yourself. 

Of course there are many degrees of unconsciousness depended from many factors. And different degrees of suffering. 

All this is good and all but we still have to live in this sometimes dark world, surviving, reproducing, creating, having fun etc 

My answer was longer than i expected it to be, i hope that this makes sense and that i didn't mental masturbate too much. 

[isabel]

@BlackMaze thank you, that makes sense that the victim and the abuser share unconsciousness

if the "victim" was fully conscious then they wouldn't be a victim - meaning only an ego would react/resent another ego

I also thought of something else, I remembered eckhart talking about how some people are triggered by his teachings, they get angry but there is no unconsciousness in eckhart so there is nothing there to make them angry, it means the anger comes from them not from eckhart, not caused by eckhart

so how does that work with the victim and the abuser? because in that case there was unconsciousness and the abuse really did happen

oh I guess the anger and resentment still comes from me but it's not caused by the abuser it's caused by my unconsciousness because if I was fully conscious then I wouldn't be a victim, have a victim mentality, is it right?

[Nahm]

Reaction in and of itself. To Re-act. To think, do, be, behave the same way repetitiously - rather than putting how you feel first and responding to experience. 

[Tim R]

4 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Reaction in and of itself. To Re-act. To think, do, be, behave the same way repetitiously

Wow, I've never thought about it in that way... good stuff

[BlackMaze]

24 minutes ago, isabel said:

@BlackMaze thank you, that makes sense that the victim and the abuser share unconsciousness

if the "victim" was fully conscious then they wouldn't be a victim - meaning only an ego would react/resent another ego

I also thought of something else, I remembered eckhart talking about how some people are triggered by his teachings, they get angry but there is no unconsciousness in eckhart so there is nothing there to make them angry, it means the anger comes from them not from eckhart, not caused by eckhart

so how does that work with the victim and the abuser? because in that case there was unconsciousness and the abuse really did happen

oh I guess the anger and resentment still comes from me but it's not caused by the abuser it's caused by my unconsciousness because if I was fully conscious then I wouldn't be a victim, have a victim mentality, is it right?

I wouldn't assume that there is no unconsciousness in Eckhart. I'm very sure that there are unconscious moments in his life and this is true for every spiritual teacher or guru. Sure he has much less than most of us. If he lives his teachings he wouldn't desire for people to see him as the ultra woke guru over 9000. Eckhart knows that Eckhart does not exist and he is the now. This is all he teaches. I don't disagree that maybe there is more to realize than this but imo this is the first thing one should become aware of. A new earth is a powerful book that cuts through all the bs if someone is ready.

Now they might have been angry for the same reason i mentioned. They don't agree with his teachings for whatever reason and basically what they do is to protect their ego by fighting and attacking Eckhart to prove themselves right. If there is no ego in you, you can choose to not give the spark to their bs to start a fire. They will look at you confused af intensifying their efforts to see a reaction in you but if there is no you they will see none and eventually they'll give up. If you see this and derive pleasure from this then that's your ego again coming from the back door. You should catch it and recognize it. You are able to receive the bs and digest it fully without suppressing anything, you are transparent to this stuff. You have no ego to protect because you saw through all the roots of ego that are basically lies that everyone believes. Again the new earth can help with this for people that had enough or are through spiritual practice ready. 

Yes it is completely possible to be free of the victim mentality now, in this moment. To live in the now means that you don't live in the past or the future. If you don't live in the past or a place other than now then there is no 'you'. It's as simple as that. Are you a victim right now? If you were able to just be right now and be fully concious in this moment then you wouldn't be a victim for this moment at least. What if you were present the next moment also? Then you would have 2 victim free moments. The point is not to look at the future to calculate how many victim free moments you will have. You have only this moment and if you choose to live only in this moment you will have infinite victim free moments. 

Now if you happen to be concious and can't help it but love everyone and someone is going to abuse you or threaten your survival is a very strange situation to find yourself in. You should defend and protect your survival even if you can love the people that threaten it. Weirdly enough you must have the courage to go beyond survival to be free of the control the ego has but once you are there even if you are awake you are still a human in this reality or dream or whatever. Life is a game and you should enjoy it and make it how you want it to be. You play this game in hardcore mode, that means if you die that's it for all we know. Dream ends and maybe next one starts. If you care about your dream then you should also respect its rules and act for your survival even if you understand that this is your ego. 

[Forestluv]

@isabel I can’t speak for Tolle, yet my interpretation is that two sides are integrated as one. Yet that doesn’t mean the two “sides” are the same.

For me to have a relationship with a thing, there needs to be a relationship with that thing. 

I don’t have a relationship with the food broshwort. I’ve never seen, heard of, or eaten broshwort. I have no relationship with it. I actually just made it up now. 

In contrast, I have a relationship with wasabi. I’ve had intense negative reactions to wasabi. Even the smell of it will make me nauseous. My mind and body reacts strongly against wasabi, so there is an aspect of wasabi in me to have that relationship with it. However, that aspect in me that relates to wasabi is not the same as wasabi itself.

I met someone in a village in Belize that never heard of wasabi. They don’t have a relationship with wasabi like I do. 

[Breakingthewall]

the child thinks that things should have been differently. that life has been unfair to him, he feels an imbalance, he feels anger and hatred. it is wrong. things are as they are. how should they be? as they are. the child (me, you, anyone) must put aside child tantrums, and accept reality as an adult. Not so easy. In some ways, it's enlightenment

[isabel]

23 hours ago, Nahm said:

Reaction in and of itself. To Re-act. To think, do, be, behave the same way repetitiously - rather than putting how you feel first and responding to experience. 

what is experience? how do you put what you feel first and respond to experience? idk what this means

thank you

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, isabel said:

what is experience?

That one’s kind of a word play situation. In being aware of the thought / word / expression... “what”, it can be noticed “what” is experience / experienced, and is not outside of or prior to experience such that any answer would be, anything other than, experience. Here is an existential explanation of actuality, or experience as a whole if interested. 

Quote

how do you put what you feel first and respond to experience? idk what this means

That is one of the greatest questions possible imo. Given the duality of language, to communicate or ‘point’, I say “put feeling first”. In more inspection, it can be readily seen that this is impossible as far as something one could ‘do’, because feeling is already, and is always, first. 

On 3/25/2021 at 2:10 PM, Nahm said:

Reaction in and of itself. To Re-act. To think, do, be, behave the same way repetitiously - rather than putting how you feel first and responding to experience. 

So to answer in regard to the previous comment... one is already feeling the reaction. Consider the reaction of a high five. Something fun or celebratory happens, and someone holds up their hand for the high five, and one reacts by holding up their hand as well, and, high fiving. That could be said to be a reaction, and it highlights that a reaction in and of itself is not a ‘problem’ (suffering / discord) per se. 

Then consider a different experience of reaction, and I’m picking something extreme to draw out the difference....  Imagine someone says to me “you’re a total fucking pompous arrogant asshole”. It might be that I feel the reaction of the body tensing, and thoughts arise, and in this example let’s say that I react and say “fuck you, you don’t know me, you’re an asshole”.  My saying that to the person didn’t feel good, but, it seems justified, because them saying that to me didn’t feel good. BUT... them saying that to me does not equal or cause, how I felt. Me holding beliefs about myself, being pompous, arrogant, and or an asshole....that is what I felt.

So conversely... again, an extreme example to draw out the distinction....a response....which includes “checking in with” or “putting feeling first” might be.... taking a few seconds before reacting / replying / responding, before saying anything, and first noticing that I resonated with the comment / insult...recognizing I don’t like how I feel, because either I’m holding these thoughts / beliefs about myself and that is resonating...or because I am actually aware my behavior is pompous, arrogant, or assholeish... (again, extreme example here).... my response, in taking a minute to check in with feeling first, might be... “thank you”. 

Why right? For the opportunity to notice and be aware of, my reacting. 

Why would I want to become more aware of my reactions?  Because it is causation. It is the duality of thought running the show. It is essentially me believing & operating / being as if I am a thing in this world (only), and I am not creating my experience consciously, but am basically like a domino, a pinball in a pinball machine, experiencing at the whim of whatever happens, whatever people say to me, what my situation or circumstances is, etc, vs consciously creating my experience, situation, circumstances. 

In short: feel the reaction, be aware of the thought which arises, and the bodily reaction and or verbal reaction....but....just be aware of it - don’t do or say the reaction....let it fizzle out....and then respond how you truly want to, in a way you might say is in accordance with your conscience, your true nature, or simply, how you’d love for someone to respond to you...even if you are having a shit day, and are being a pompous arrogant asshole. 

Still though...why? Cause life is too short not to be yourself, to truly live. The more life throws at you, the more you respond rather than react, the more you know ‘who’ you really are. 

[isabel]

@Nahm thank you nahm, I understood some of that, definitely closer now

[EddieEddie1995]

@BlackMaze @Nahm  

Thank you ?

[Nahm]

?? 

[BlackMaze]

@EddieEddie1995 i'm happy that you found it useful ?

It feels good to not hold back from what i have to say because of the fear of how i might be perceived from more advanced people than 'me'. Holding back and not expressing is dishonesty. 

[artcastle]

@BlackMaze Thanks for your reply, the following posts by everyone were helpful too.

[Farnaby]

On 26/3/2021 at 9:52 PM, NondualesStudium said:

I don't get how feeling good could be a trustworthy guide?

It sure feels better (to me at least) to eat a fatty pizza than bland, albeit healthy vegetables. To a pathological murderer, it might feel good to kill. In both cases what feels better would not be a conscious, "good" decision.

And didn't Leo say in one video the most important thing is to always do that which feels hardest, odd and most uncomfortable (i. e. exactly not the things which feel good and "aligned", whatever that means anyway)? 

Sorry for the confusion

I often ask myself the same question. "WOuldn't I become hedonistic if I only did what feels good?"

However, direct experience has shown me that if I'm being really mindful and aligned with my deepest nature (love) and desires (connection, amongst others), that hedonistic self-destruction doesn't happen. 

Why? Because my "inner guide" will tell me when I'm starting to hurt myself through short-term pleasures and therefore negatively impacting every other aspect and relationship in my life. 

I agree with Leo though, that often times it's doing the difficult things in life which brings you closer to feeling fulfilled and in alignment. 

For instance, in your example, I agree that eating pizza feels better and if you tend to be too restricted with yourself, allowing yourself to eat more pizza could be the thing you need right now. But if you mostly eat pizza and that kind of food, you will soon be sacrificing other important aspects (your health, physical and mental strength, etc.) and you won't feel as good about it. Of course you can keep indulging in the short term pleasure of eating pizza all the time, but the price you will pay will constantly increase and if you align yourself with your authentic feelings and desires,  they will probably not be saying "keep eating pizza". At that point, eating healthier, although tough in the beginning, is what is truly aligned with your authentic feelings ?

 

Edited March 30, 2021 by Farnaby

[Leo Gura]

On 3/24/2021 at 10:11 AM, isabel said:

"whatever you react strongly to and resent in another is also in you"

if a child suffers horrific life long abuse by a parent and then later as an adult still has a strong reaction of pain to what happened, and even at times resents the parent, what is it that is also in the child?

thank you

This is shadow work 101.

Basically the child's mistake (now that's he's an adult) is to disown the fact that being abusive is not just a thing "others" do, but that he is also capable of it. By realizing that being abusive is also a part of him, he can integrate it and heal. Otherwise he will forever be resentful because he feels that abuse should not have happened to him because he would never do such a thing himself. But the truth is that he would do such a thing himself if he was placed in that situation.

At an even deeper level he can become conscious that all the abuse that exists in the Universe is literally his own self.

With deep enough consciousness you will realize that whoever abused you, was actually your own self! So you abused yourself. And when you realize that, you can forgive yourself, accept yourself, and heal.

Try to fathom this: you literally ARE every rapist in the world who has ever lived. Rape is not something some "other" "bad guys" do. Rape itself is construction of your own Universal Mind. When you realize this, you stop disowning rape, and you accept yourself as a rapist (even if your human body has never raped anyone). It doesn't matter what your human avatar did or didn't do. Once you realize you are the whole Universe, anything that occurs in the Universe is part of you. Since your true identity is Infinity, that means you are a rapist.

If you are God, and God is Everything, then God is rape, and you are rape.

A bitter pill to swallow

But should you swallow it, you will become Whole.

What parts of yourself are you disowning? Hint: everything that you consider "not-me".

[GreenLight]

@Leo Gura Many people are anticipating a shadow work video from you.

[Rilles]

58 minutes ago, GreenLight said:

@Leo Gura Many people are anticipating a shadow work video from you.

Out of the 200-300 upcoming videos someday youll get one.  Lets just hope its not video 299...