The Boulder Shooting Thread

[jjer94]

Hey y’all.

As a lot of you already know from the news headlines, there was a mass shooting that occurred yesterday afternoon in Boulder, Colorado. 

Ten people were killed, including a police officer. They managed to apprehend the shooter, a shirtless incel guy who used a patrol rifle to shoot his victims.

I was in the store when it happened. At first, I stupidly thought that the loud bangs behind me were from machinery or something, maybe a garbage truck outside. But then there were three, four, five of them, and then shouting. 

I didn’t bother to even look behind me. I was on the right side of the store near the emergency exits. An employee at the deli counter shouted at me to get the heck out of there, so I ditched my cart and bolted for the doors. More gunshots, can’t remember how many. 

As I ran to my car which was parked in the middle of the lot, I ran past an immobile body on the street that didn’t look like it was breathing. I managed to get in my car without any injuries, and then I proceeded to take pictures and film some of it before driving to safety. I am home safe now.

The video clips will likely be in the news, and I can’t show them here due to size limits. But I attached a pic of the view from my car as cop cars piled into the parking lot, as well as a pic of the outside of the store, where a SWAT vehicle was parked.

Thinking back on it, my body had such a dissociation response to the incident that it felt like my sense of self completely eroded and all that was left was a body, running away from something dangerous. It almost felt like a dream or a video game, like if I were shot I could just respawn or something.

I can't sleep, as I'm still processing all of it. I am so heartbroken, and I'm shocked that something like this could happen in a primarily Stage Green bubble. My thoughts and prayers go out to everyone in that store and everyone else who was affected. I seriously could have been one of those ten people, but I was one of the lucky ones.

I also just moved to Boulder a few days ago, and I was using Instacart for the first time yesterday. Who knew that grocery shopping could be so dangerous...

Jokes aside — this opens up a huge can of worms for discussion on all things gun control and mental health, so I figure that since I was on the scene, I would start a thread.

What are your thoughts on this event and the issue of gun control? How do systems connect to this issue? How about mental health? Covid rules? What do you think should be done to prevent these sorts of things from happening?

 

Edited March 23, 2021 by jjer94

[jjer94]

My thoughts on all of this —

1. I think this supports Leo's perspective on the importance of governmental infrastructure, including emergency response teams. If it weren't for police intervention, a lot more people would have probably died. I mean, that's kind of a no-brainer, but it still needs to be said because we often take governmental infrastructure for granted. Or, due to negativity bias, we only focus on the flaws of government and build a case from there for reducing government altogether. Government sucks a lot of the time, but it's a technology that we can update and improve. I agree with Leo that it's not something to reduce or take away. 

2. The question I ask in this situation is: How did the societal systems create this shooter? This guy was not created in a vacuum. He must have been so desperate to be seen and heard that shooting up a store was the only way he could unconsciously conceive of getting that need met. Probably heavily traumatized, poor home environment, poor socioeconomic status, stir crazy from the Covid lockdown, fucked over somehow. 

3. I think a lot of us are reaching our breaking point, mental-health-wise, when it comes to the Covid lockdown. Our fundamental need for social connection has been so truncated that we're all starting to get a bit antsy and desperate. 

4. I think gun control is more of a gateway to other issues. Of course, I think mental health screenings and the safe storage of guns are crucial measures when it comes to gun ownership. I just think that gun control is less of an issue here than mental health. Given all of the above, a lot of us are lacking physical exercise, social connection, and quite frankly, a sense of purpose. We all have trauma in our nervous systems that we don't know what to do with...which is why I think personal development, alternative therapies, spiritual practice, and personal responsibility are crucial for the general public to be exposed to. 

[Parththakkar12]

Was it the one on 30th Street or the one on Table Mesa? I'd grocery-shop in the one on 30th Street!

[jjer94]

@Parththakkar12 Table Mesa.

[Preety_India]

I'm so sorry that you had to go through all this. We all support you. Hope you begin to feel better.. 

Hugs. Please be strong.

There is really no solution in sight for such things other than cultivation of empathy. 

[Blackhawk]

2 hours ago, jjer94 said:

Thinking back on it, my body had such a dissociation response to the incident that it felt like my sense of self completely eroded and all that was left was a body, running away from something dangerous. It almost felt like a dream or a video game, like if I were shot I could just respawn or something.

Interesting, I think that's true, you would just respawn.

[trenton]

This is an extremely difficult issue to tackle.

Mental health has a huge role to play in this.  62% of gun deaths in the United States are suicides.  Public shootings are more common in the United States than most countries and there are many factors that play into this.  There was a ted talk with a man who was about to attack a school, but he no longer had the desire to such a thing after his brain damage was corrected.  There are many things that could cause mental health issues.

1.  The American standard diet can contribute to mental health issues by damaging the normal development of the brain.  If harmful ingredients like excessive sugar and others were removed, it may lead to fewer cases of depression.  The American standard diet is associated with worsening cases of depression.  This can lead people to getting fed up with life to the point that they kill people.

https://www.uab.edu

2.  Dispersing the target and reduce the number of people killed in the event of a shooting.  For example, if classroom sizes were reduced, it would minimize casualties while making schools less of a target.  The problem is that there are still massive public gatherings like the one in L.A.  The bigger the target, the more people killed if there is an attack.

3.  The Pentagon recently reported that it has a problem with white supremacist ideology.  There are people who get sucked into toxic ideologies who then seek military training so they can use what they learn to kill people, by shooting up synagogues for instance.  There are military stories of a sniper who sat on top of a college tower and then changed his location constantly so the police could not find him as he kept killing people.  There are also many mental health issues for those returning from military service.  If they are not properly treated, they might do something like this.

4.  The black market is responsible for many of these shootings as well, and adding background checks to the NRA is necessary, but it would not be enough.  The black market is also responsible for drug dealing.  Drug dealing can cause mental health issues that could cause somebody shoot people during withdrawal symptoms from heroin.  Alternative medicine like ibogain could be used to treat alcohol and heroin addictions that would lead people to becoming mass shooters.  If the American medical industry were more open to psychedelics, it would make the illegal drug market less profitable while preventing people from suffering withdrawal symptoms that could cause shootings.  LSD, psilocybin, DMT, and marijuana could all be removed from the illegal drug trade while maximizing medical benefits to treat mental disorders and make people loving to the point that they can't shoot people.

5.  COVID rules have worsened anxiety and there are many people talking to online therapists.  I am talking to one and others could benefit from doing the same.  

As for this particular case, it could be a combination of mental health and COVID rules, although there were many shootings before COVID.  I would attribute this mainly to mental health because of all the shootings the same before it.  COVID rules are an additional layer added to mental health and anxiety.

[tuckerwphotography]

@jjer94 Glad you're safe, brother. Thanks for sharing your account. Not that I know you or anything, but feel called to say that it might be wise to meet with a therapist once the dust settles. PTSD is real in these types of situations, and better to work with that material while it's fresh than to have it get buried deep in your psyche and surface years later. I suspect trauma itself is ultimately the root of these shootings, which only causes more trauma, and the cycle goes on and on.

Sending love your way and to the entire Boulder community.

Edited March 23, 2021 by tuckerwphotography

[DocWatts]

First off, I'm glad that you managed to make it out of there safely.

As to untangling this problem, it's very common to see Reductive approaches that attempt to undermine how difficult of a problem this is.

The problem isn't just that there are more Guns than there are people in America, it's that there's one gun per every person in an environment of where basic support structures for psychological Health are completely inadequate, and where extreme levels of inequality (including a declining standard of living) are a driving force behind widespread feelings of alienation and despair.

Edited March 23, 2021 by DocWatts

[jjer94]

@tuckerwphotography @DocWatts @trenton @Preety_India

Thank you all for such thoughtful, intelligent responses. I'm learning new things from all of y'all.

I do plan to get some therapy for this, as this kind of event could definitely stick in my body for a while. Even today, my body/brain is imagining the scene again, with the gunshots behind me.

[Preety_India]

@jjer94 please do so. You absolutely need it as soon as possible. Contact your local help services. 

I pray things get better for you and for the unfortunate victim families 

 

[IAmReallyImportant]

The only thing I'm thinking about at the moment is how much money selling videos of the act to news agencies could probably bring in. At the end, it could be a gold mine you just stepped upon. I think it is a matter of perspective and the perspective decides about the outcome. I personally talked to someone who was in the mass-shooting in Munich. He wasn't traumatized and proudly talked about his experience. Different kinds of people there.

In the DACH-area we have strong weapon-laws and still there are mass-shootings nearly every year.

Edited March 23, 2021 by IAmReallyImportant

[aurum]

@jjer94

That's definitely one of those "doesn't even seem real" kind of moments. Glad to hear you're okay. I'll echo what everyone said about taking some time for self-care, whatever that means to you. Although I'm sure you already know that.

14 hours ago, jjer94 said:

What are your thoughts on this event and the issue of gun control? How do systems connect to this issue? How about mental health? Covid rules? What do you think should be done to prevent these sorts of things from happening?

My thoughts are that we have to do two things at once.

On the one hand, we have a deep, systemic crisis that is coming to a head on simultaneous fronts. Which is of course even more fundamentally a spiritual crisis.

Those kinds of changes are long and take time. Society doesn't shift overnight, although I will say it feels subjectively to me like the rate of change is speeding up.

So we have to solve for that crisis at the root level. But in the mean time, people are getting shot. And it seems wise to me that we should manage those symptoms as well as possible, even if it doesn't fix the root.

Public policy is our big tool in this area. Government is what we have and we should use it. Stricter gun control seems like an obvious choice.

14 hours ago, jjer94 said:

1. I think this supports Leo's perspective on the importance of governmental infrastructure, including emergency response teams. If it weren't for police intervention, a lot more people would have probably died. I mean, that's kind of a no-brainer, but it still needs to be said because we often take governmental infrastructure for granted. Or, due to negativity bias, we only focus on the flaws of government and build a case from there for reducing government altogether. Government sucks a lot of the time, but it's a technology that we can update and improve. I agree with Leo that it's not something to reduce or take away. 

2. The question I ask in this situation is: How did the societal systems create this shooter? This guy was not created in a vacuum. He must have been so desperate to be seen and heard that shooting up a store was the only way he could unconsciously conceive of getting that need met. Probably heavily traumatized, poor home environment, poor socioeconomic status, stir crazy from the Covid lockdown, fucked over somehow. 

3. I think a lot of us are reaching our breaking point, mental-health-wise, when it comes to the Covid lockdown. Our fundamental need for social connection has been so truncated that we're all starting to get a bit antsy and desperate. 

4. I think gun control is more of a gateway to other issues. Of course, I think mental health screenings and the safe storage of guns are crucial measures when it comes to gun ownership. I just think that gun control is less of an issue here than mental health. Given all of the above, a lot of us are lacking physical exercise, social connection, and quite frankly, a sense of purpose. We all have trauma in our nervous systems that we don't know what to do with...which is why I think personal development, alternative therapies, spiritual practice, and personal responsibility are crucial for the general public to be exposed to. 

These are all good points.

[Ethan1]

I currently live up in Estes Park, CO right now which is not too far from Boulder. 

From my understanding this stuff is just a complex problem from many angles.
 

I'm kinda playing around with a concept map to come up with ideas that are at the root of the problem. 

https://www.mindomo.com/mindmap/5fe332d1f21045aca2aefa79e99af3e3

I'd say a big part of it has to do with shame/acceptance, social solidarity, and power dynamics in our society. People have a need to be respected, loved, and valued. If we had better ways to connect communities and bring people together. This would help people co-regulate in a healthy way. The normal way to connect with people in our society today is with alcohol and going to bars. This basically dysregulates the entire body. Which is not exactly the most healthy ways to go about getting needs met.

Ideally speaking, there needs to be like small groups where people can go to connect & get certain needs met. I like the idea of meetup.com where people can host gatherings which in my mind is the most functional & healthy way to connect. If there was like a non-profit brick & mortar center similar to meetup. Closest thing I can think of is a 12 step program. However, I'd consider something more normalized as if a coffee shop in smaller communities. 

Something the helps educate the general public about well-being and encourages emotional regulation. Emotional dysregulation is truly at the core of the problem. Co-regulation and healthy attunement is what people need. Something that has a setting similar to a yoga class or a massage therapy vibe. You walk into a massage therapy room and they set the room to be inviting & relaxing. If there was a public setting that had such a vibe that would be amazing. As if like a Natural Hot Spring where people can connect in a comfortable way. Hot springs naturally bring people together in small towns. 

A mixture of like the YMCA & 12 step programs. Not to make it a formal class but a gathering where people can go to hang out. There aren't many free places for people to go and feel a sense of relief. Libraries are about the only places to go in society. Rather than people feeling they have to go to bars & get drunk to be seen, felt, and heard by others. 

 

In reality, public shootings are a cry for attention to be seen and heard. To forcefully reclaim a sense of power, coercion, and authority. Rage is deeply deeply rooted in shame. A person who is shame bound will become more prone to snap and vent their closed off anger. However, shame is a common root in our society where expressing certain emotions in public settings is not acceptable. Have you tried crying in public or expressing anger at a grocery store as an adult? Or anywhere? Normally little children are the ones that rage in grocery stores because they haven't been socialized to know its unacceptable/taboo. 

Edited March 24, 2021 by Ethan1

[Preety_India]

 

A lot has to do with mental health. 

Improve general mental health and such incidents will reduce in number and frequency. 

 

[Danioover9000]

@jjer94  I've had that before, with time slowing down. It eventually passes away, but seek help if it persists a long time.

Edited March 24, 2021 by Danioover9000

[fridjonk]

It's way too easy to buy a firearm in the U.S. It should take at least 5 years with different tests each year to be able to get close to a semi-auto rifle or a pistol. It's that way here in Iceland with pistols, you can't even own a semi-auto rifle as there's just no use for a civilian to own such a gun. If you're mentally unstable, then there's no way you're getting a gun because you need to undergo so many tests and doctors evaluation. 

It's beyond me how it isn't like this in every country. 

[DocWatts]

27 minutes ago, fridjonk said:

It's way too easy to buy a firearm in the U.S. It should take at least 5 years with different tests each year to be able to get close to a semi-auto rifle or a pistol. It's that way here in Iceland with pistols, you can't even own a semi-auto rifle as there's just no use for a civilian to own such a gun. If you're mentally unstable, then there's no way you're getting a gun because you need to undergo so many tests and doctors evaluation. 

It's beyond me how it isn't like this in every country. 

If we were designing the system from the ground up, something like what you're describing would be a workable and sane system.

Problem is that things have gotten so bad in the US that there's more guns than there are people. Recalling literally hundreds of millions of guns isn't something that's even remotely feasible; and that's leaving aside that tens of millions of people here equate to thier "right" to own a small arsenal with freedom of speech or freedom of religion, and cling to Gun Culture every bit as much as religious folks cling to their Holy Texts.

The intractability of this problem will take Generations to solve, because of how inextricably it's intertwined with a host of other systemic problems within the US.

Edited March 24, 2021 by DocWatts

[jjer94]

@Ethan1 Wow, you bring up some really good points here, especially the one about emasculated men. Good work on the diagram. 

@aurum Thank you ?? I'm with you on all of that.

[Epikur]

Quote

Al-Issa was born in Syria in 1999.[29] His family immigrated to the United States in 2002, and he has lived in Arvada since 2014.[30] Al-Issa's older brother said that Al-Issa has a history of paranoid, disturbed, and antisocial behavior. Al-Issa was arrested in 2017 for punching a classmate at Arvada West High School, after the classmate insulted him weeks earlier. Al-Issa pleaded guilty to an assault charge in relation to the incident and received two months of probation in addition to 48 hours of community service.[31]

According to a police affidavit, Al-Issa bought a Ruger AR-556 semi-automatic pistol in the week prior to the shooting. Al-Issa's identity was already known to the Federal Bureau of Investigation due to a link to another individual under investigation by law enforcement officials.[29]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Boulder_shooting