Laziness does not exist?

[Animo]

Hi everyone, I'd like to get your thoughts on this.

The more I contemplate it, the more it seems to me that laziness as a concept is simply invalid. It feels like calling someone "lazy" is ignorant, and comes from a lack of understanding. "Laziness" seems to be a symptom of all manner of psychological issues and traumas, some of which might be really deep. And telling someone to get off their ass and to stop being lazy is akin to telling some to "just don't be depressed".

However, it does seem like some people respond productively to that kind of "stop being lazy" messaging, and they're able to force themselves to start getting things done, so I understand the possible utility in it. Some people might not react in any practical way if they're told that they're lazy because of trauma, not because they're useless losers. Maybe that harsh fire is the only way for some. What do you guys think about the concept of laziness?

[Meditationdude]

@Animo laziness exists bc you created it. 

[LastThursday]

To call someone lazy is a judgement. Mostly when people say it, it's because they want to say "look how good I am, I'm not lazy like you", virtue signalling. Sometimes, it's used as genuine encouragement, but it's hardly ever as effective as positive encouragement. What would you rather hear: "Your so lazy you'll never amount to anything" or "You have so much talent, it'll be amazing if you used it"? 

Anyway, laziness is useful for conserving energy so it's probably an adaptive evolutionary trait. 

Lastly, most people are very good at telling you you're lazy, but not any good at telling you how not to be lazy - mostly because they don't have a clue themselves or they themselves are too lazy to really help you.

[Hansu]

Where there is passion, there is a way. And vice versa.

If you spend 40 years working 7-7 in a Nike factory pulling bootstraps through football shoes, someone might say that "he was the most hard working man that ever was" at your funeral, but that's about it. Its hardly fulfilling or passionate life to live. Unless you find enlightenment, but that's pretty rare.

Don't be stupid, be lazy and you'll know when you find your true passion.

Edited March 22, 2021 by Hansu

[Flowerfaeiry]

I've heard a couple spiritual teachers talk about this. That its not "laziness" but rather difficulty creating change. I don't know. It could be both depending on the situation.

[Animo]

14 minutes ago, LastThursday said:

To call someone lazy is a judgement. Mostly when people say it, it's because they want to say "look how good I am, I'm not lazy like you", virtue signalling. Sometimes, it's used as genuine encouragement, but it's hardly ever as effective as positive encouragement. What would you rather hear: "Your so lazy you'll never amount to anything" or "You have so much talent, it'll be amazing if you used it"? 

Anyway, laziness is useful for conserving energy so it's probably an adaptive evolutionary trait. 

Lastly, most people are very good at telling you you're lazy, but not any good at telling you how not to be lazy - mostly because they don't have a clue themselves or they themselves are too lazy to really help you.

Yeahh exactly. There's so little positive encouragement in general. When I was a kid, whenever someone called me lazy and shamed me for it, it just made me want to sink into a deep dark hole even lower.

I think I'd separate laziness from conserving energy though. My definition of laziness is that you're avoiding actions that would be good for you, but which would require effort and possible discomfort. Conserving energy has a positive definite purpose in itself though.

[LastThursday]

5 hours ago, Animo said:

I think I'd separate laziness from conserving energy though. My definition of laziness is that you're avoiding actions that would be good for you, but which would require effort and possible discomfort.

I agree up to a point.

There are a million actions that would be good for you, but require effort to do. Implicit in being referred to as lazy, is that you should be doing something. But who's to judge what you should be doing or even if you should be doing anything at all? Where does this judgement come from?

It's a societal thing, we're obsessed with doing. If you're not doing then somehow you're deficient in some way or wasting your time. Time is treated as a commodity to be filled with doing stuff; progressing, advancing.

Maybe conserving energy or having down time is actually good for you?

[Dan502]

We could say that calling someone lazy is lazy

and we might be right in some sense

but there are more important things than being right.

Why is that person lazy?

What do they need?

Can we help them?

Edited March 23, 2021 by Dan502

[soos_mite_ah]

This thread reminded me of a video I found a while back

 

[LastThursday]

Alice: My new mantra is "Just do it!"

Bob: But you're not doing anything.

Alice: I am. I'm doing laziness.

Edited March 23, 2021 by LastThursday

[Origins]

@Animo It doesn't. 

Simply because there are so many reasons for its existence that there exists more causes of laziness that it more of an effect than a cause.

At the core, laziness is simply the failure to experience STIMULATION in the related area.

This is such a huge topic as it touches on so many areas of human psychology that you can't easily "slice the falling dice" (many different combinations) here, for this though I will give an example relating to using piano as ones sole source of entertainment.

The piano has 88 keys and most humans on planet earth have at least 9 fingers and two thumbs enabling them to workup to playing thousands of songs and their variation which could satisfy there need for stimulation for an entire lifetime. 

There is a distinction though that needs to be made and that involves the distinction between human psychology and mechanical possibility. 

At the beginning, even if people are aware of the mechanical possibilities here their subconscious awareness isn't as such, most people will follow a stereotypical and predictable false algorithm as it concerns their relationship to the piano in the context of their potential stimulation. Most people in all of their endeavours choose a "play until I am bored" algorithm rather than a "play until I've exhausted all of the created potentials for stimulation", the former is what creates the laziness. They allow themselves to hit their neuroexcitable peak at the cusp of their predetermined will rather than exhausting the space of awareness that allows them to explore the freedom of will they have to discover the heights of variability and variety they can uncover through devoted interactive play. 

Most people follow this same predictable formula for life, as such, most fail to reach their peak in conscientiousness (its opposite, laziness), hence why most people simply live mildly lived lives on the edge of a river during a peak gold rush that they won't stay long enough to find the gold they're looking for, they'll get up and leave the piano before they've even begun to discover their innate interest, and for many, talent for it. 

If laziness doesn't exist, this means innate interest also doesn't exist, for it too, is not a cause but an effect, an outcome of living just beyond the horizon of ones foreseeable intrigue into life's melodies as they're presented to their consciousness. 

So for whatever it is you want to get really good at, don't think in terms of "not being lazy", think in terms of how you can stay stimulated beyond the norm. In the case of piano, how can you input enough variability either through mind via creative play or through choice via songs you will try to learn?

STIMULATION > (necessary) CONSCIENTIOUSNESS (as it applies), lastly, CREATIVITY as an input of (necessary) VARIABILITY > STIMULATION 

This last aspect is simply a dedication to awareness (i.e. self awareness).

Consider one of the core aspects of the age old problem of "laziness" now solved. 

[Ethan1]

@AnimoLet me know what you think... This sounds like what you were talking about.

@soos_mite_ah I like the video that you posted. Fear is a big obstacle to taking action. I'd also add shame and low-self esteem/self-belief can also get in the way too. 

Edited March 24, 2021 by Ethan1

[Null Simplex]

I was originally going to write a long, intricate explanation as to why I disagree.  But honestly, it sounds like a lot of work and I just don’t have the will power to do so.

[neovox]

I experience feeling/ being lazy, and I experience discipline to overcome laziness. Don't judge others, what more is there to contemplate?

[LastThursday]

@Null Simplex don't be so lazy! Don't you know you have to grab life by the horns? Go go go...