Survival after Enlightenment

[Leo Nordin]

I have made this same topic once before though nobody on this forum could add on it. Here is the little information I have found since then:

Of course nobody knows the answers and the path that you will walk on. All these realized beings have had their own answers, some have said that survival will be solved by yourself somehow.

Ug krishnamurti states how he was lucky to be wealthy and therefore he does not know how another man could survive living without "fear". Also once he said it wouldn't be a problem for you and that you would survive. 

J krishnamurti have stated that he would not ever take a single day into the slavery which is a 9 to 5 job. J krishnamurti got his wealth from the states perhaps because he was a public speaker. 

Osho Had a wealthy family and was early on in his life making people give him what he needs otherwise he would have to steal it. 

Sadhguru worked a lot untill "enlightenment" and then gave it all up. Though he continued to persue the creation of dyangalinga and further on his public speaking/isha fundation career. Sadhguru is an odd case because he is the only one that was driven towards working and achieving certain things in the world which is the exact opposite of Ug krishnamurti. 

All these people have more or less agreed that it is the government's responsibility to make sure every citizen gets food to eat. Personally I am going to live a similar way to these people and I will soon quit my slavery, am almost doing it right now but I will use all the ego I can to finish the preparations I have been working on for my future and continuing my slavery a little bit longer. 

Do you guys have anything to add? 

[Epikur]

Sounds reasonable. The one thing that can happen is that one gets very unproductive. There was this study where people on vacation lose a lot of their IQ. That can end in a downwards spiral. Being a homeless guru might not be nice for some.

Other than that miminalism is a nice thing.

[Blackhawk]

So enlightenment and 9 to 5 work doesn't work together or what? Why not?

Supposedly enlightenment/liberation sets you free no matter what circumstances your body is in (or if it dies). So that means you would be free even while working 9 to 5.

Edited March 21, 2021 by Blackhawk

[vladorion]

Enlightenment doesn't equal being dysfunctional and not being able to make a living.

Many teachers will tell you that they're functioning better than before.

[Batman]

7 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

So enlightenment and 9 to 5 work doesn't work together or what? Why not?

Supposedly enlightenment/liberation sets you free no matter what circumstances your body is in (or if it dies). So that means you would be free even while working 9 to 5.

True. However, enlightenment is only possible with profound honesty. In our day and age, most 9 to 5 jobs out there are manipulation of mind for the purpose of creating a strong base for survival (usually by accumulating money and social status), causing exhaustion of the body and the individual's core sense of self. I suspect that individuals who 'experienced' deep enlightenment will find it very hard to keep manipulate their life like this, and will resign to a path that is more aligned with the impact enlightenment had on their mind. In my experience, the deeper your enlightenment gets, the more it will become intolerable living in a routine that does not align with your internal sense of being.

[Blackhawk]

32 minutes ago, Batman said:

True. However, enlightenment is only possible with profound honesty. In our day and age, most 9 to 5 jobs out there are manipulation of mind for the purpose of creating a strong base for survival (usually by accumulating money and social status), causing exhaustion of the body and the individual's core sense of self. I suspect that individuals who 'experienced' deep enlightenment will find it very hard to keep manipulate their life like this, and will resign to a path that is more aligned with the impact enlightenment had on their mind. In my experience, the deeper your enlightenment gets, the more it will become intolerable living in a routine that does not align with your internal sense of being.

But life in this world requires that at least some people work, no matter what. Physical existence in this world is impossible without work..

For physical existence you need shelter, food and clothes. And healthcare would also be a good thing. All those things require work. And also you must impress on the women (compete against men), that maybe requires most work of all. Otherwise the specie would die.

And it would be weird if the unenlightened people must work as slaves for the enlightened people (otherwise the latter would die) because the enlightened people refuse to work.

Edited March 21, 2021 by Blackhawk

[Nahm]

The difference between survival before enlightenment and survival after enlightenment is whatever thought is currently believed to be the difference.

[Breakingthewall]

If you take advantage of the work of others to eat, dress and survive in short, you have to give something that corresponds to what you receive. that the state has to support you is unworthy. 9 to 5 work sucks, but a free person with a free mind will find their way very easily. And if this is a problem, maybe you have to be more humble and realistic, and admit that you are deceived about how enlightened you are.

[fridjonk]

So many of you guys still have some idea of what enlightenment is supposed to be. 

[Leo Nordin]

 

41 minutes ago, vladorion said:

Enlightenment doesn't equal being dysfunctional and not being able to make a living.

Many teachers will tell you that they're functioning better than before.

The whole thing is that you won't know how you will make a living, there is no YOU to know about some destined future. When you feel hungry you will just have to find some way to get food. You will function flawlessly in a natural state where the mind and body works as one, like an animal but with human intelligence. 

 

Blackhawk why would a realised being still work? He would see how work deteriorates the mind, how work is living in patterns, how a job is limited, rules - how you cannot just walk out of a job or take breaks whenever, etc etc. It is impossible for you to live in harmony with existence - your body/mind in those jobs that I have ever heard of. 

Epikur though those on vacation I believe seclude themselves from the existence around them. Being like a guru just means that you are determined to not "suffer" ever again, you won't even know the difference between being happy or not happy so it is nice for everyone to be enlightened. 

56 minutes ago, Epikur said:

Sounds reasonable. The one thing that can happen is that one gets very unproductive. There was this study where people on vacation lose a lot of their IQ. That can end in a downwards spiral. Being a homeless guru might not be nice for some.

Other than that miminalism is a nice thing.

51 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

So enlightenment and 9 to 5 work doesn't work together or what? Why not?

Supposedly enlightenment/liberation sets you free no matter what circumstances your body is in (or if it dies). So that means you would be free even while working 9 to 5.

[Blackhawk]

14 minutes ago, Leo Nordin said:

 

The whole thing is that you won't know how you will make a living, there is no YOU to know about some destined future. When you feel hungry you will just have to find some way to get food. You will function flawlessly in a natural state where the mind and body works as one, like an animal but with human intelligence. 

 

Blackhawk why would a realised being still work? He would see how work deteriorates the mind, how work is living in patterns, how a job is limited, rules - how you cannot just walk out of a job or take breaks whenever, etc etc. It is impossible for you to live in harmony with existence - your body/mind in those jobs that I have ever heard of. 

Epikur though those on vacation I believe seclude themselves from the existence around them. Being like a guru just means that you are determined to not "suffer" ever again, you won't even know the difference between being happy or not happy so it is nice for everyone to be enlightened. 

I think the whole point with enlightenment is that you supposedly transcend from the world. So it wouldn't be any problem for you even if your body gets tortured in prison. Since you are not the body.

But I don't know if I believe that enlightenment exists. That no one can even agree on what enlightenment is, also indicates that maybe enlightenment is just another fairytale story made up by wishful thinking humans.

[Leo Nordin]

12 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

But life in this world requires that at least some people work, no matter what. Physical existence in this world is impossible without work..

For physical existence you need shelter, food and clothes. And healthcare would also be a good thing. All those things require work. And also you must impress on the women (compete against men), that maybe requires most work of all. Otherwise the specie would die.

And it would be weird if the unenlightened people must work as slaves for the enlightened people (otherwise the latter would die) because the enlightened people refuse to work.

41 minutes ago, Batman said:

(glitched) 

@Blackhawk

If the work comes naturally there would be no problem, the problem with humans is that we have used our intelligence in all the wrong ways, suffering endlessly. It is natural for a being to look for food and shelter, humans could/can do this in a natural way too, though society is structured for you to live unnaturally, when you realise that is not worth it anymore is an act of intelligence. Whatever ways you involve yourself in the world will be in a way your own work. 

33 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

If you take advantage of the work of others to eat, dress and survive in short, you have to give something that corresponds to what you receive. that the state has to support you is unworthy. 9 to 5 work sucks, but a free person with a free mind will find their way very easily. And if this is a problem, maybe you have to be more humble and realistic, and admit that you are deceived about how enlightened you are.

❤️❤️

33 minutes ago, fridjonk said:

So many of you guys still have some idea of what enlightenment is supposed to be. 

I hope that is temporary though.?

[Batman]

15 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

I think the whole point with enlightenment is that you supposedly transcend from the world. So it wouldn't be any problem for you even if your body gets tortured in prison. Since you are not the body.

But I don't know if I believe that enlightenment exists. That no one can even agree on what enlightenment is, also indicates that maybe enlightenment is just another fairytale story made up by wishful thinking humans.

I see your contemplation regarding the matter and sympathize.

As you probably have heard before, this is no matter for belief, only direct experience. You should not believe anything anyone tell you, including this very sentence.

I must say that I sense a flavor of both skepticism and authenticity on your part, did you ever try any psychedelic?

Regarding enlightenment and survival - of course enlightenment does not end survival. After enlightenment nothing changes. You remain to exist a self, which will always remain bounded by the principle of survival, and operate in the relative and self-referential reality. Nevertheless, enlightenment will probably readjust the self, and recontextualize the self's experience towards a more authentic way of being. After enlightenment, any form of manipulation, lying or deceiving becomes almost ridiculous, because you will see it for what it really is.

So yes, in the context of social survival, enlightenment may chew on the ego's energy to deceive the other. But it does not mean that enlightenment is detrimental to the self. On the contrary, a false-self is probably more toxic to the organism that it inhibits, and causes more damage to the integrity of it's experience. I invite you to be completely and brutally honest with yourself and others for a month, and see how it affects your experience. 

By the way, most people who will grasp their true nature have probably already fixated a form of living that sustains their survival in a way that leaves spare time for inquiring into their own existence. It is almost impossible for an individual that is totally invested in surviving to become conscious of it's true nature. 

But again, you should throw away everything I just said. It is only relevant as a springboard if you are not already oriented towards truth.

[Leo Nordin]

The word enlightenment is quite misused. Nobody can be enlightened though and still people somehow can be, that's how misused the word is. 

Transcending yourself is more like you have been riding on a lion ever since you got corrupted as a child, of course it is scary to jump off that lion, what if I will die, you might think. If you somehow got off that Lion then you have trancended yourself, that might also by some be called enlightenment. By others enlightenment might be the point of death truly becoming one with existence, but you were always one with existence, also mind cannot say I am enlightened because the second it sais so you are definitely not enlightened, mind cannot grasp existence. That realisation might therefore by some also be called enlightenment. 

You see it is quite a mess this thing with enlightenment and all?

23 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

I think the whole point with enlightenment is that you supposedly transcend from the world. So it wouldn't be any problem for you even if your body gets tortured in prison. Since you are not the body.

But I don't know if I believe that enlightenment exists. That no one can even agree on what enlightenment is, also indicates that maybe enlightenment is just another fairytale story made up by wishful thinking humans.

[kag101]

2 hours ago, Leo Nordin said:

Personally I am going to live a similar way to these people and I will soon quit my slavery, am almost doing it right now but I will use all the ego I can to finish the preparations I have been working on for my future and continuing my slavery a little bit longer. 

What future do you have in mind?

[Batman]

36 minutes ago, Leo Nordin said:

If the work comes naturally there would be no problem, the problem with humans is that we have used our intelligence in all the wrong ways, suffering endlessly. It is natural for a being to look for food and shelter, humans could/can do this in a natural way too, though society is structured for you to live unnaturally, when you realise that is not worth it anymore is an act of intelligence. Whatever ways you involve yourself in the world will be in a way your own work. 

 

Yes, a lot of the suffering is due to the way society conditions and orient us almost exclusively towards survival. Our entire social institutes, nations, cities, family, schools, revolve around survival. When survival is the dominating context of experience, suffering is a natural result. This is because energies of survival are directed toward what isn't, not what is (truth). This is why some teachers are directing their teachings on "the present moment". 

In actuality, the social institutes were constructed by humanity in order to make survival accessible for most of the individuals in society. Unfortunately, the detrimental result of this self-shaping institutes is a transverse lost in our sense of being, which is replaced by activities of survival. But survival is only an element in being, and thus most of us find our self in the midst of the rat race, confused and wondering what happened to the 5-6 years old kid who just started to discover experience. 

[Leo Nordin]

31 minutes ago, kag101 said:

What future do you have in mind?

I give that thought to the future, I have not a single clue and it seems futile to think about. I might live in a van, I might have left home, and I might become involved with a lot of people. Who knows, that's all I can say. 

Edited March 21, 2021 by Leo Nordin

[Carl-Richard]

2 hours ago, Leo Nordin said:

The whole thing is that you won't know how you will make a living, there is no YOU to know about some destined future. When you feel hungry you will just have to find some way to get food. You will function flawlessly in a natural state where the mind and body works as one, like an animal but with human intelligence. 

Enlightenment isn't like that. It doesn't make you special. Now go get a job 

[Loba]

My gut says that it is better to leave all of that behind.  That society and culture drags you down and tries to mold you into certain things.  That this will go against what is needed in order for a lot of people to become enlightened, or whatever it is that they are supposed to be.  That the solution is going out into solitude and finding yourself there and that there is an underlying order that can be observed just by sitting silently and watching it all in the present moment, looking out over a mountain top or somewhere high up.  It isn't a closed loop, like it is in the in the city; it feels dead to me - or with people - and you don't have to be thinking all the time, or worrying about nonsense.  The earth will nurture your soul.

I am in a position where I don't have to work ever again if I don't want to, and I will be moving into a decent home in a few months close to nature.  I'm going to orient it towards where I want it to be near the end of my life, in order to wake up from - and to continue on - and not worry too much about society at all - to remove as much of culture from myself as I can.  I'm more interested in the spirit realms and I think that there is some knowledge about them that can be found in the forest and I know how/where to look.

I think that just outside culture, all of it, in every way, is something that belongs to humans as a birthright.  That how we live gives us a chance to design the next life.  And if no one wants it, I am going to go get it.

mama's gun - glass animals but you're in an empty cathedral (slowed + reverb)

Edited March 22, 2021 by Loba

[vladorion]

Quote

The whole thing is that you won't know how you will make a living, there is no YOU to know about some destined future. When you feel hungry you will just have to find some way to get food. You will function flawlessly in a natural state where the mind and body works as one, like an animal but with human intelligence. 

I don't know where you get these ideas from, but they're just fantasies about what enlightenment is.