Can stage Red people really thrive without having adequate discipline and work ethic?

[Rilles]

5 minutes ago, Woke456 said:

@Rilles What makes you think purple isn't above this?  How about a pack of dogs or alligators?

Interesting point. Guess I have alot to contemplate, to be honest I kind of just want to throw away the colors and stages and just start looking at the values themselves now... SD feels like its been limiting me alot lately.

Edited March 21, 2021 by Rilles

[Woke456]

1 minute ago, Rilles said:

Interesting point. Guess I have alot to contemplate, to be honest I kind of just want to throw away the colors and stages and just start looking at the values themselves now... 

The authors from the spiral dynamics books have a different perspective than Leo on a lot of things.  The disadvantage Leo had is that you only get to see 2 hours worth of his thoughts on each stage.  I also think Leo melted a bit of his "left brain" through too much psychadelic use which put him at a strong bias against the 'hot' colors.  Supposedly, meditation will literally do that as well.  But bear in mind, we have two hemispheres for a damn good reason, and this is especially true for men.  The "oneness" Leo keeps talking about is literally a female trait because historically women had little to gain from going their own way.

[Hardkill]

Well, now it looks like we're all getting confused by Spiral Dynamics. lol

[Heinrich Faust]

Alexander is a great(!) example for stage red. Also, his empire fell apart after his death. That's typical to stage red. A blue empire would have a firm infrastructure and a hierarchy to find a new leader.

Another interesting feature of stage red: killing bearers of bad news.

[Rilles]

1 minute ago, Hardkill said:

Well, now it looks like we're all getting confused by Spiral Dynamics. lol

The confusing part is trying to pin people to one Stage, but thats why its a model and limited, if we would be truly honest there is probably a 100 Stages people go through... For example, is a violent dictator the same as a serial killer stalking the streets... Technically no... Although they might share some values... 

Edited March 21, 2021 by Rilles

[Heinrich Faust]

Well, it's just important to get a real understanding for the different stages. This thread will hopefully help to get a better understanding of stage red.

[Hardkill]

2 hours ago, Heinrich Faust said:

Well, it's just important to get a real understanding for the different stages. This thread will hopefully help to get a better understanding of stage red.

Yeah, I hope so too. It would also be helpful to in order to be clear on what I am supposed to do when I am in a certain stage color. Otherwise, I would worry that I might accidentally be work on certain things in my life that I am not ready yet for. 

Edited March 22, 2021 by Hardkill

[Heinrich Faust]

Have you watched all of Leo's Spiral Dynamics videos? If not, go and do that first. (You can skip the stages more than one above your current one.) I think he explained very well what to integrate on every stage and how to transcend the same. When you've detected a particular field you should improve yourself, go for it and learn more about it. When you've mastered every piece of a stage, it may be time to target the next one. Also, make sure that you've fully integrated the lower stages purple, red, and blue.

[Carl-Richard]

On 21.3.2021 at 9:30 AM, Hardkill said:

Can stage Red people really thrive without having adequate discipline and work ethic?

Yes, but usually at the cost of others. That is why Blue arose, because of the need for higher-order collective organization. It's not that Red cannot be ordered at all, but "higher-order" is order connected to a higher structuring principle or purpose above the individual.

 

On 21.3.2021 at 9:30 AM, Hardkill said:

So, does this mean that individuals who have been prime examples of stage Red such as emperors, empresses, kings, queens, conquerors, dictators, etc. achieved the power and success without having any without ever needing much discipline or work ethic to do so? 

Yes, but realize what that really means. It's not like Red has no motivation to do anything. They have a strong drive and desire to do stuff, but it's limited to egocentric impulses. The highest principle is the individual self.

With Blue order and structure, your drive becomes streamlined towards a higher purpose than yourself: the transcendent, the collective, the divine, the good. Behavior becomes more intelligent, thoughtful, considerate: "is this in alignment with my values?". Red doesn't have to think about that. It always knows what it wants, and it wants it NOW.

Discipline and work ethic is not the source of your motivation and energy. Those things are simply the purposeful structuring of your work output. They are infact restrictions on your natural energy (your immediate impulses, short-term desires). This increases the ability to think long-term, to invest, plan, scheme.

Edited March 23, 2021 by Carl-Richard