No idea what is going on

[Boethius]

Just now, Blackhawk said:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/basics/myers-briggs?amp

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/cutting-edge-leadership/201402/the-truth-about-myers-briggs-types?amp

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/quantum-leaps/202005/dont-let-your-children-take-the-myers-briggs?amp

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/quantum-leaps/202004/two-reasons-personality-tests-myers-briggs-could-be-harmful?amp

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/give-and-take/201309/goodbye-mbti-the-fad-won-t-die?amp

So the heuristic you're applying is that the credentialed experts (writers for Psychology Today, for instance) are in general (even if not complete) agreement that MBTI is not good, in some way or another. Horse shit, one might say.

I personally would say that that actually is a pretty good heuristic to apply when you're trying to figure out what are the reasonable things in the world to believe. It's an approach you may over time find to be lacking in nuance (which is why I spent time commenting on continuous vs discrete models of personality and provided links to articles that go into detail on the nature of the criticisms of MBTI). But as heuristics go, it is a good one to start with, and by the sounds of it that is one of the heuristics you are applying in helping yourself to understand the world.

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Blackhawk said:

Ok I guess earth is center of the universe then. All previous wrong scientific theories are from now on absolutely correct.

I mean... I guess that's one way to avoid having to be accurate; to only talk in hyperbole or irony 

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Boethius said:

The criticisms are mainly philosophical ones about the personality model being discrete rather than continuous (at the Big 5 and HEXACO are). Thinking about introvert vs extrovert I think clarifies the issue. For people who are extremely introverted, learning that one is an introvert can help make a lot of sense of oneself. But for people who are in the middle of the introversion/extroversion spectrum, discovering you're in the middle may well say little of great value about you. This seems like a problem that's unavoidable when discrete models of personality are based on continuous spectra (as MBTI is).

The critical stance against typologies really doesn't matter to the lay person. Even if you follow Big 5 and learn that you're only 51% extroverted/introverted, people will still tend to call themselves "an introvert" or "an extrovert".

If we look past the data compatibility argument (that for a typology to be representative of the data, a trait would need to follow a bimodal distribution and not a normal distribution in the population), personality psychologists aren't exactly averse to using discrete categories in the first place (all personality traits are discrete categories). 

Categories are supposed to simplify and summarize (that's the very reason you make categories and models). A type is just another way of categorizing and simplifying. As long as you're aware of this (or not, as in the case of the layman), it really doesn't matter what you call it (a discrete type or a continuous trait).

Edited March 27, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[Boethius]

16 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

The critical stance against typologies really doesn't matter to the lay person. Even if you follow Big 5 and learn that you're only 51% extroverted/introverted, people will still tend to call themselves "an introvert" or "an extrovert".

If we look past the data compatibility argument (that for a typology to be representative of the data, a trait would need to follow a bimodal distribution and not a normal distribution in the population), personality psychologists aren't exactly averse to using discrete categories in the first place (all personality traits are discrete categories). 

Categories are supposed to simplify and summarize (that's the very reason you make categories and models). A type is just another way of categorizing and simplifying.

It's funny how I read both books on INTPs (my type) by Dr. A.J. Drenth without seriously questioning the value of MBTI in the very first place. I guess it just felt inline with my experience of myself and of my interactions with other people. Maybe the lay reader interacts with these models in a similar kind of way, taking what they want and need and forgetting the rest? I'd also point out that in the article

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/cutting-edge-leadership/201402/the-truth-about-myers-briggs-types?amp

it is written at the end that

"Perhaps the best use for the MBTI is for self-reflection. If used as a starting point for discussing how people vary in their personalities, and emphasizing tolerance for individual differences and taking others’ perspectives, then it can be a useful tool. However, it is important that the test administrator caution against over-interpretation of the results, and discuss the limitations of the instrument."

So there's a lot of nuance in this conversation around MBTI (probably more than is required for this particular thread, in all honesty). Anyways, thanks for responding.

[blankisomeone]

On 21/03/2021 at 6:53 AM, neovox said:

unless you experience it directly for yourself, it don't mean shit

Amen, brother❤️

[integral]

yeeeeeeee, its a slice... of a slice... if it was useful, then it achieved relative "truth" status by my standards lol.  

It should be clear just by reading it, your a "single decider". lol Makes no different if it came from science or hitler. 

When hearing the term "single decider" or "single observer" does that intuitively reveal something for you? A insight? 

 

Ideally i would like to leave a comment here that some how was the perfect thing to say to help you progress and relieve your suffering. 

That perfect comment, what ever it contains is truth.  

 

Edited March 28, 2021 by integral

[Carl-Richard]

On 27.3.2021 at 9:22 PM, Blackhawk said:

Ok I guess earth is center of the universe then. All previous wrong scientific theories are from now on absolutely correct.

Oh, I forgot to mention that each category of Big 5 can be divided into 6 facets as well (NEO PI-R).

So in total, 5 categories with 6 facets each makes 30 different facets. There is support for various facets using the same statistical procedures as used on the initial 5 categories (Lexical approach).

If we were to typologize/dichotomize each trait/facet continuum in the Big 5 (for example making orderliness-disorderliness into two types — O and DO), that would create 5*6*2 = 60 possible types.

So which is the "proven" number for dividing personality? 5? 6? 30? 60? There is no reason to simplify it to that level.

Edited March 31, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[diamondpenguin]

I'm right with you dude. We got all this shit going on, and don't understand what the fuck this world is. It's like "what the fuck is this shit." Like none of us have any idea what the world is and yet we act like we all know like a bunch of arrogant animals. 

Edited March 31, 2021 by diamondpenguin

[Blackhawk]

1 hour ago, diamondpenguin said:

"what the fuck is this shit."

Amen.

[SpiritualAwakening]

Never give your authority away to someone, never believe anything anybody is saying. This is your journey, your search. All you have to do is a hold a total objective metaphysical and existential inquiry/questioning/contemplation into what the nature of what reality is, if there is such a thing as an Absolute Truth ? Once you give your authority away or start taking advice from anyone, you're done, you won't be able to discover/uncover GOODLUCK!

Edited March 31, 2021 by SpiritualAwakening

[wwhy]

On 3/21/2021 at 5:37 AM, Blackhawk said:

Atheists, materialists, religious, spiritual, and psychonautic people (and whatever else groups of people there are) all think they are on the side which knows the truth.

I think maybe they all are ignorant.

Maybe I am too.

I feel outside because I don't believe in anything specific, and I don't know anything.

How am I supposed to know what is true. I really don't know anything ?

Unfortunately this also means that I wont believe in any replies in this thread either, because I don't know whether what someone says is true or not. Because of that I haven't put a question mark in this post. I don't feel excited about what people will say, since their words don't mean anything to me. So I'm not sure why I even started this thread. Sorry I don't mean to be disrespectful.

How do you know what is true? Why? How will that help you. What will you do with the truth that you aren't already doing now? Is it true that you can fly? And how do you know, or should I say feel, that something means something to you? Does it have to be true to mean something to you? Why?

Edited March 31, 2021 by wwhy

[Blackhawk]

6 hours ago, wwhy said:

How will that help you. What will you do with the truth that you aren't already doing now? Is it true that you can fly? And how do you know, or should I say feel, that something means something to you? Does it have to be true to mean something to you? Why?

I don't know. I just want to know why I'm here and what all this is is.

I woke up in the world not knowing why or how. And I'm suffering and I'm not allowed to leave the world because of the hardwired survival instinct.

It's like someone would wake up in a prison cell with wiped out memory and knowledge. That person would probably want to know what the hell is going on.

[Mu_]

@Blackhawk So why let your own words or beliefs apply to yourself.  Best thing that helped me when I was in the same situation, was not to listen to myself and beliefs either and all the negative confused talk that went on in the head.  A lot of just sitting quitly, listening to music, walks, bike rides, bilinuar beats, some occasional psychodelics and let life work its silent magic on ya.

[wwhy]

On 4/1/2021 at 3:32 AM, Blackhawk said:

I don't know. I just want to know why I'm here and what all this is is.

I woke up in the world not knowing why or how. And I'm suffering and I'm not allowed to leave the world because of the hardwired survival instinct.

It's like someone would wake up in a prison cell with wiped out memory and knowledge. That person would probably want to know what the hell is going on.

But you do know what is true, to you. Your truth is anything you are willing to act on. Like flying.. if I believed I could fly, I would be jumping off this apartment building right now to go see a friend. But I do not believe I can fly. I believe I can uber, so I'll act on that instead. I'll call a uber, to get me from place A to B. You have memory, and you have knowledge. They just feel meaningless to you right now. What is the difference between truth and meaning, and does one really need the other? If it's relief from pain you seek, then look for meaning. Our minds cannot comprehend the ultimate truth you seek, and as a human being, you never will. You just aren't equipped to. Accept that, and seek meaning instead.

Edited April 2, 2021 by wwhy

[snowyowl]

19 hours ago, wwhy said:

 

@Blackhawk "I woke up in the world not knowing why or how. "

This is the ego's story, that I come into the world - from where? Perhaps it's the other way round,  I arising is the sleeping. 

Edited April 3, 2021 by snowyowl