Moral relativism-why is killing Bad?

[Someone here]

Is morality just a subjective relativistic matter? 

If so.. What's stopping you /me from stealing all your money and raping your wife and killing your kids(aside from the government and law) ...?

After all...you kill bacteria in your body by millions every day.. We kill animals for food.. We kill insects because they "annoy" us... It's not like killing us objectively or universally wrong or evil?  What is evil after all other than a bunch of flimsy opinions? ... As with the example of killing.. Killing is only selectively bad.. It depends "who" are you killing, right?  Killing a chicken for lunch is OK while killing your kids is inhuman crime??

Edited March 20, 2021 by Someone here

[SilentTears]

Killing is bad because the frame of mind someone has. Someone can have a frame which explains why it’s “okay”, however you should take into consideration where people’s level of development lays when you chose to take on their worldview. 
 

personally, killing can be a very horrific and sad act because of the Immense emotions that arise from the situation. I see the world from how people feel. 
 

your actions directly influence everyone your around and even your thoughts do to. Now, do you wish to spread positive emotions full of love or maybe just some simple joy and peace? Or do you wish to spread hate? Now which do you would feel better for you and others? Which is more pure? 
 

just ask these questions and always come from your heart. Someone who understands their actions understands the importance of positive up bringing. 
 

only the ignorant sleep in blood, spread low vibrations and think that everything is the same throughout all actions. 
 

each action is different and has a different outcome. 

[Someone here]

@SilentTears then why do we kill insects and animals? Doesn't the same principle apply to animals and other life forms? As I said it's only selectively bad which is my main point.  If we can justify killing an animal for food.. Then we can justify killing people or else we will be using double standards. 

[Rilles]

26 minutes ago, Someone here said:

If so.. What's stopping you /me from stealing all your money and raping your wife and killing your kids(aside from the government and law) ...?

1.Because I have been taught to. I makes me feel horrible to lay a finger on another person. Plus, I would have to live with guilt and shame for the rest of my life, being outcasted by friends and family. You may say "So its all about your feelings and not mine?" Certainly, but heres the genius strange-loopy design, me feeling bad hurting you also prevents you from feeling bad by me hurting you, so egotism turns around on itself. Basically if I feel good by being peaceful and not hurting you then you will also feel good. Empathy always has to start from my subjective ego.

2.I dont want to want to waste my life going to jail. 

 

Edited March 20, 2021 by Rilles

[SilentTears]

I don’t really kill insects if unnecessary for my survival. Heck, I don’t even enjoy killing anything because of the understanding of emotions I have for all living being. Now does a tigger feel sad for the rabbit? No it thinks food. It’s just how you frame it yes. 
 

you can justify killing humans but will you! I hope not. Dude, I’m saying come from your heart. What you know is right! Do what you think is best! Don’t look to others for answers. 
 

let’s say you do justify killing humans. How shitty will you feel or how shitty will your energy be from that. Yes everything you do stays with you. 
 

good and bad are relative, yes, I agree. However be intelligent, come from the heart and hope for the best for everyone when you come to which world view you want to take on. Which comes from more purity? Which embodies the things you want? 
 

edit: don’t worry about what others are doing. Do you man. 
 

if you wanna change others then understand that the best ways to change others is by embodying what you want and letting others see for themselves. 
 

by forcing another to your worldview is like caging one is your frame of mind by the justification that your way is the right way. 
 

dude I’m sure you know this shit. Good luck ? 

Edited March 20, 2021 by SilentTears

[Someone here]

My main point is the double standards... 

Why is killing human bad or wrong or evil while killing animals for food is not??????  I'm not saying we should then justify killing humans... I'm saying why are we using double standards? 

[Rilles]

3 minutes ago, Someone here said:

My main point is the double standards... 

Why is killing human bad or wrong or evil while killing animals for food is not??????  I'm not saying we should then justify killing humans... I'm saying why are we using double standards? 

Because most humans are not at the level of development where they see insects and other animals as living conscious creatures, and its not conducive to our survival, if every slaughterhouse closed today humanity would go extinct, we need time. Sad truth, yes.

Edited March 20, 2021 by Rilles

[SilentTears]

And I’m saying so? 
 

it’s because, yes, double standards. 
 

now what are you gunna do about it? Cry? Change others? Change yourself? 
 

lol dude, you already stated it. We use double standards for our own survival or to make us feel better about doing the actions we do. It’s a justification. 
 

6 minutes ago, SilentTears said:

good and bad are relative, yes, I agree. However be intelligent, come from the heart and hope for the best for everyone when you come to which world view you want to take on. Which comes from more purity? Which embodies the things you want?

I hope you get my drift when I say these things, truly do. Good luck ? 

[lmfao]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

My main point is the double standards... 

Why is killing human bad or wrong or evil while killing animals for food is not??????  I'm not saying we should then justify killing humans... I'm saying why are we using double standards? 

I think it's just how humans are wired for now. Much more likely to only have selective empathy for other humans and maybe a few animals, but not all of them (cattle and insects being animals). 

The biologist could explain to you and me how double standards are an  evolutionary thing, but that alone wouldn't satisfy this topic of morality and care for me. 

All I can say currently is that I really don't know.

Fluctuates and "is relative" like anything ("absolute vs relative") perhaps. I think larger spiritual questions when you ask it from a non-dual perspective are tricky and won't have a verbal explanation which will satisfy anything, which rn to me can feel a bit unsettling

One angle, we can call empathy an empirically observable trait just like height or something else. 

--

Me myself, I can and do feel an amount of empathy for people I see around me. One paradigm would be that I have more emotional empathy than cognitive empathy, but that's arguably due to autistics and neurotypicals misreading each other in a two way street.

I don't know if this is the case for me though. Whether in boring medical terms or just in terms in general though, I don't define my psychological state by autism. The same way that great scientists and philosophers of history aren't defined by the label of "(" high functioning") autism". At what point is it not just normative language to shame people on further ends on different bell curves. 

I question the language of all personality disorders, as well as terms like "psychopath" and "sociopath" as well. The jargon and medicalisation only serves to hide lack of understand, and at most the concepts can perhaps give the average person a vague intuition that people are simply different from each other, (and depending on how you frame it) partially/mostly due to innate biology.

The entire framework of medical language here has the utility of maintaining the inertia of singular/normative perspectives. Without questioning or understanding you get to just use this label which allows you to practically navigate the world from your current POV and limited opinions

--

I'm sure there multiple distinctions you can make maybe within the concept of empathy, I've noticed 1 or 2 things. 

Someone might be aware or compassionate of another person's suffering, but some bigger picture means that you push the other person anyway to grow. Maybe sometimes called "tough love" 

Another thing I've thought about, in relation to suffering being something we create or invent in our dreamstate. Sometimes I've seen in myself how suffering is imaginary and its nothing but an image of myself that's hurt. Not real. That being so, on some level that means I have a bigger picture to not get caught up in the theatre of others, since I'm trying to push myself and others awake from the dreamstate. To push ahead for truth's sake alone. 

 

As a reflection of what people mean by the word empathy, I've seen words like "appropriate" and (feeling) "induced" in descriptions of empathy, which I find very fascinating. The construct being that you have to react or feel a certain way to be regarded as having empathy, again showing the relativity of it. That it's about what's socially or culturally regarded as the correct behaviour and response. Do and feel what I want or you're a sociopathic asshole! 

Edited March 20, 2021 by lmfao

[Gesundheit]

Evil/Selfishness goes infinitely deeper than that. It's just too silly to talk about, because even me talking about it is evil/selfish.

Everything that humans do is a survival strategy, including/especially the very act of nitpicking, sugar-coating survival strategies, or denying them altogether. And when I say everything, I mean EVERY-FUCKING-THING, without an exception. Even "truth", "spirituality", "sympathy", "human rights", etc... are survival strategies.

But of course, spiritual people won't like that and they will demonize and hate me for saying it. Spiritual people like to demonize others in order to claim the higher moral ground, when in fact there's no difference whatsoever between them and others. What's even more twisted is that they claim transcendence by inclusion, which in theory means that they don't demonize those who have different survival strategies. But in practice, oh well. 

All living beings care about their own survival first and foremost. Humans just go about doing that in the most twisted of ways. Life is ruthless & cut-throat. It's all just a big clash of survival agendas. Insects don't care about my survival. They will not let me sleep if they're hungry, and they won't think twice about it. For a mosquito, it's just the way it is.

Martyrs don't exist. And survival for the fittest is the only rule.

Edited March 20, 2021 by Gesundheit

[Najim]

I deny extreme relative moralism.

Extreme relative moralism meaning: that there is no such thing as right or wrong, that these things are only perspectives relative to who you are and your beliefs.

This notion that torturing innocent babies using an axe is only "relatively wrong."

However morality is still to some degree relative. Prostitution is morally ok for more developed countries while in lesser developed countries it is seen as a moral evil. This is the relativity of morality. 

However again the notion that there is no inherent wrong like mentioned in one of the actualized.org blog videos it was said that: There is nothing inherently wrong with dropping a nuclear bomb and mass murdering an entire population. This is just the ego talking smack! 

There is a natural law or right and wrong inherent to you, selfishness is an inherent wrong, loving and giving is an inherent right. This is the foundation of ones moral compass. This is built into your feelings and it is the very nature of God. 

Speaking of which, selfishness manifests itself in forms of pride, arrogance and many other forms. 

A prime example is Leo being arrogant, prideful and having a trolly attitude. There is selfishness there no matter which way you flip it. Ta-Daaaa!!!

You wanna be enlightened? Go clean the toilets and filth of your biggest enemy's house for free daily. Eradicate selfishness and you automatically fall into love and into the "arms of God".

[Najim]

"wrong" is the lesser right, lesser good (lesser by huge amounts). There is no such thing as "wrong", that is impossible in this universe. However that being said, you can get damn well near it.

You naturally have an inclination to stay away from these "lessers". You intuitively know self-worship creates suffering not only for "you" but also for "others".

Some will say: "whats "wrong" with self worship and causing suffering, its all just imagination!" How deceived they are. 

Edited March 20, 2021 by Najim

[Gesundheit]

3 minutes ago, Najim said:

This is built into your feelings and it is the very nature of God.

Lol.

[Najim]

@Gesundheit

Quote

Lol.

If youre seeing something I dont, you can point it out 

You quoted me typing: inherent right is giving, loving, selflessness. This is built into your moral compass (feelings) and is the nature of God. 

 

Edited March 20, 2021 by Najim

[Najim]

30 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

Life is ruthless & cut-throat. It's all just a big clash of survival agendas. Insects don't care about my survival. They will not let me sleep if they're hungry, and they won't think twice about it. For a mosquito, it's just the way it is.

Martyrs don't exist. And survival for the fittest is the only rule.

This is highly deceived thinking.

Look at the love all around you. Have you not seen your mothers eyes? Have you not seen the shape of your hand? Have you not felt your heart beat? 
 

[Nahm]

3 hours ago, Someone here said:

Is morality just a subjective relativistic matter? 

‘Matter’ is a vibrational appearance of you...you literally matter. 

Quote

If so.. What's stopping you /me from stealing all your money and raping your wife and killing your kids(aside from the government and law) ...?

Nothing. 

Quote

After all...you kill bacteria in your body by millions every day..

Still thinkin there’s a ‘you’. What matters ‘you’...some ‘not you’?

Quote

We kill animals for food.. We kill insects because they "annoy" us... It's not like killing us objectively or universally wrong or evil? 

How are you killing thoughts? That doesn’t make sense. Perhaps there thought attachment at play, such that it is believed labelling creates separate things?

Quote

What is evil after all other than a bunch of flimsy opinions? ... As with the example of killing.. Killing is only selectively bad.. It depends "who" are you killing, right?  Killing a chicken for lunch is OK while killing your kids is inhuman crime??

All of this believing of thoughts just to maintain the facade of the separate self (suffering). 

[Insane butterfly]

Life it self is infinite intelligence, Killing is survival. 

To kill an animal to eat/survive is Self Love.

To kill an other human being to survive or defend your self is Self Love

To kill a living being only for the experience or pleasure is pure devilry!

Animals are not that intelligent as human beings and yet when they kill accidentally they regret it instantly because they have consciousness, they know what they have done, they know what is right and wrong. 

Low consciousness people aka stupid kill for pleasure but they have no idea what they are doing

 

Edited March 20, 2021 by Insane butterfly

[Gesundheit]

32 minutes ago, Insane butterfly said:

To kill a living being only for the experience or pleasure is pure devilry!

You kill millions of living sperms every time you jerk off only for the experience and pleasure, you selfish devil.

Edited March 20, 2021 by Gesundheit

[Blackhawk]

10 hours ago, Someone here said:

My main point is the double standards... 

Why is killing human bad or wrong or evil while killing animals for food is not??????  I'm not saying we should then justify killing humans... I'm saying why are we using double standards? 

Because animals are blessed with being less conscious than humans. So they don't suffer nearly as much.

[Egzoset]

The destruction of self-aware life created via natural evolutive processes of monumental proportions feels particularily unworthy of my own man-size person, which could even seem ego-centric actually;  not to mention humans started to realize there's a multitude of awareness levels and many of those reflect beauty in some way or another, inspiring us spirituality and art if we just care to pay attention. etc.

 

Nonetheless i'll continue to eat meat until a more affordable/healthier form of nourishement becomes available, so i'm still waiting for the ultimate "veggy" burger experience!