Entitled Brat Talks

[Svartsaft]

Ok. Its been 10 frustrating non rewarding months.

I still dont get it. And im starting to realize i just wont get it ever. Even if i dont want to belive it.

I keep comming up with these concepts of how meditation is done. But its just that. Ideas and more bullshit ideas that dont reflect what im doing in the slightest.

Whats realy going on is me just sitting there. Trying to used my mind to get out of my mind. Over and over again.

Its not until i hit a wall of frustration that the mind actualy give up. It simply dosnt happen from me trying. Its the opposite.

I will still do this for whatever reason. It dosnt even mather. Trying to let thoughts go. In order to achive what? Wtf is the aim here? No be please.

 

[Prabhaker]

25 minutes ago, Svartsaft said:

I keep comming up with these concepts of how meditation is done.

Meditation is an attitude not an activity, so whatever you do can become meditative. The so-called meditation that people go on doing is not meditation. It is the attitude of being in the present which is the core, the central, the essential thing.

Do whatever you are doing -- walking on the street, running, taking a bath, eating, going to sleep, lying on the bed, relaxing -- and remain with the activity totally. With no past, no future, remain in the present. It will be difficult in the beginning -- very difficult and very arduous -- but by and by you will get the feel of it and then a new door will open, a new realm. Then the thought process will no longer be there. By that I don't mean to say that you will become incapable of thinking; on the contrary, only then will you be capable of thinking. Thinking is a different thing from this mad rush of thoughts.

….. So be aware. Don't waste the present anymore. Live in the present. Live in the meditative quality of the present….

“ When you are eating, eat -- don't do anything else. When you are listening, listen -- don't do anything else. When you are walking, walk -- don't do anything else. Remain in the present moment, remain with the activity, and soon you will realize that the past has drifted away and a new space has opened within you. In that space, there are no thoughts.

Live moment to moment. Die to the past and die to the future. Live here and now so that whatever you are doing becomes a meditation.

[Svartsaft]

Oh so thats the point. To just be in the present. Need to stop those pesky timetravels.

No i dont get that.

To truly be accepting of reality. How can one achive that by constantly trying to modify it.

If i eat and think about something else. Isnt it more accepting of reality to just let it be that way?

Becouse that is my experience. Thats whats going on.

To me. It seems like putting in effort is the opposite of what im trying to achive. And just give up is right. And the only way to realy be all accepting.

I feel like the point of meditation in reality is to get so frustrated and done with it that give up and fall down into nothingness and true acceptance. But its just another theory to try and get over.

But thats what seems to happen. You get a grasp of what you think you should do. And with time you realize that it dosnt hold up. So you modify the concept of how to meditate. But that still dosnt hold up. Until its so frustrating you give up all concepts and just are.

[Prabhaker]

31 minutes ago, Svartsaft said:

If i eat and think about something else. Isnt it more accepting of reality to just let it be that way?

How day dreaming could be 'accepting of reality' ? Human mind as such is a daydreaming faculty. Unless you go beyond the mind, you will continue to daydream. Because the mind cannot exist in the present. It can either exist in the past or in the future. There is no way for the mind to exist in the present. To be in the present is to be without mind.

One possibility is that it can go on chewing, rechewing the past again and again. You go again and again backwards; again and again to the past moments, beautiful moments, happy moments. They are few and far between, but you cling to them. You avoid the ugly moments, the miserable moments.

But this you cannot do continuously because this is futile; the activity seems to be meaningless. The mind creates a ‘meaningful’ activity – that’s what daydreaming about the future is.

The mind says, ‘Yes, past is good, but past is finished; nothing can be done about it. Something can be done about the future because it is yet to come.’ So you choose out of your past experiences those which you would like to repeat again, and you drop experiences that were very miserable, painful; that you don’t want to repeat in the future.

So your future dreaming is nothing but past modified, better arranged, more decorated, more agreeable, less painful, more pleasant. This your mind goes on doing. And this way you go on missing reality.

[Nathalie]

41 minutes ago, Svartsaft said:

Oh so thats the point. To just be in the present.

Yes exactly what else? live fully just in order to live

What kind of activity do you know which you can experience and enjoy while your thoughts drow you somewhere else?

Meditation and self inquiry help to let the senseless thoughts drop.

Edited October 18, 2016 by MartineF

[Svartsaft]

Wtf are you talking about. The content can sure be about the futre or past. But your still stuck in the present. Mind and everything. Why? Becouse its all there is.

And how is daydreaming not reality? Its happening ffs. Its experienced.

[Svartsaft]

4 minutes ago, MartineF said:

Yes exactly what else? live fully just in order to live

What kind of activity do you know which you can experience and enjoy while your thoughts drow you somewhere else?

Meditation and self inquiry help to let the senseless thoughts drop.

But they cant draw you somewere else. How would that even be possible. And if they can. Then thats the now.

[Prabhaker]

2 minutes ago, Svartsaft said:

The content can sure be about the futre or past. But your still stuck in the present.

No, when you think, you miss the present. Unless you are alert and aware, you will go on thinking nonsense,

While eating , become a witness of your eating, watch every movement of your hands, mouth. Eat slowly and consciously, then you will know what living in present moment means.

[Svartsaft]

As a kid. I could drift away into fantasy land all the time. I was still happy.

And i wasnt unconditionally happy. But happy and loved life.

Now i hate the world, myself. Fuck sake. How did we get so fucked up. Im not alone in that i know.

 

 

[Prabhaker]

15 minutes ago, Svartsaft said:

How did we get so fucked up

If you want to get rid of misery, get rid of the lust for happiness. And when there is no misery, there is happiness. But it is not because you desire it; it is because you don’t have any desire. In a deep desire-less state, you are full of bliss. 

[Telepresent]

1 hour ago, Svartsaft said:

As a kid. I could drift away into fantasy land all the time. I was still happy.

And i wasnt unconditionally happy. But happy and loved life.

Now i hate the world, myself. Fuck sake. How did we get so fucked up. Im not alone in that i know.

 

 

As a kid, you had fewer mental models about how the world worked.  Now you have many.  The trick is to learn to see them as that: models, not truth.  This actually ties in with Leo's latest video on beliefs, but rather than going and watching that, I'd recommend you sit down with a piece of paper, and start listing what you KNOW to be true, and then start interrogating it: asking yourself if it's REALLY, REALLY true.  Can you argue against it?  Can you look at it from another perspective?  Can you be CERTAIN that your thoughts are correct?  And keep going and keep going and keep going.

As much as whatever thought-wondering you have while you eat might be what 'is in the present moment', it's not really the thoughts that are your problem right now: it's your emotional reaction and attachment to them.

Now, I have a big respect for meditation, but I also seem to disagree with a lot of people in that I feel meditation on its own is not enough.  That it's through conscious and intentional inquiry, investigation, and deconstruction of our experience that we can come to disabuse ourselves of our belief systems, and decide whether we want to re-program our thoughts (so we can get back to that kid-like state), or move beyond them.  I worry that, for a lot of people, meditation is too unstructured or random (without a 'debriefing' period where you can consolidate your experiences) to be able to do this.

What's my point?  You're thinking a lot while you meditate, that is frustrating you, which leads to more thinking, and clearly meditation on its own is a bit of a painful cycle.  I wonder if you should either step back to some more fundamental self-help work (to get past various limiting beliefs, etc.), or if you should investigate other forms of self-inquiry other than (or to accompany) meditation.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Telepresent

[Nathalie]

2 hours ago, Svartsaft said:

But they cant draw you somewere else. How would that even be possible. And if they can. Then thats the now.

Yes they do in the sense that your body believes your thoughts and feels as if they were real..

Imagine you're just thinking about a dreatful thing like being followed by a killer, in one hand you are sitting in a save room in the other your body react as if you are in danger! Observe it! It doesn't matter what you think, your body always react as if it were real..

So if you are more or less as everybody else, most of the time, you don't even realize what you're thinking about and this leads us to the problem:

You can't always dream about a fantasy land, can you? Why do you wish you could? Maybe because you want to escape from other thoughts.. maybe some which interpret the life as something miserable, horrible.. But, don't they come over and over again and sabotage the one you like? You can't controle what you will think next.

Isn't it a good reason to face and acknoledge "your inner world" maybe clean up a little and let it drop?

At least you have a chance to encounter and understand yourself and the others, isn't it worth it?

You don't have "to get" anything, if you think that a meditation is stupid, just stop it and go your way -consciously- you have nothing to loose, right?

 

 

[WelcometoReality]

@Svartsaft  I'm going to share with you a realization I had a couple of years ago. 

I was walking in the woods contemplating about what truth really is, when I saw a tree. A thought appeared saying "a tree". The next thought was "A tree is not a tree it just is." That realization scared the living **** out of me 'cause I just realized that no thought could ever be true and also no word could be true. I was a really sciencey guy and to me science was "the truth". My whole view of reality was smashed to pieces in an instant.

My point is, thought appear in reality but the content of the thought is never true. Words point to truth at best but are never true. And what points to the words saying that they are true? Can that be true?

Also this means that all I written is not true. But perhaps it points at truth. It is up to you to investigate it or not.