The universe won't protect you

[tatsumaru]

Paulo Coelho once said "And, when you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it."

Then I found out that Abraham Maslow who was about to uncover possibly the most important piece of wisdom in psychology with his last theory of transcendence and deliver incredible value to the understanding of purpose, potential, ego and humankind actually died at 62 before he was able to finish his most important work. In fact he was somewhat troubled because he realized he was at the verge of a breakthrough and at the same time he knew that his health wouldn't allow him to finish his most important project. Meanwhile Mao Zedong, a monster, who was of service to no one, lived to be 82 years.

The universe doesn't care and won't protect you.

Edited March 18, 2021 by tatsumaru

[Gesundheit]

[SourceCodo]

Nice observation. 

How did you come to this conclusion?

I care about things, concepts, individuals. At least it seems like I do. And I am a representative of this universe, so I can't help but disagree. 



I think there's an issue with the statement itself. The universe does not have the ability to care. It's not a singular thing. It's more like a concept representing many, many parts. It's a moot point.

 
It's like saying the ocean does not care about a drop of water. 

Or 

The "ant colony" itself will not save the singular ant. 

Edited March 18, 2021 by SourceCodo

[freejoy]

35 minutes ago, tatsumaru said:

Paulo Coelho once said "And, when you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it."

Then I found out that Abraham Maslow who was about to uncover possibly the most important piece of wisdom in psychology with his last theory of transcendence and deliver incredible value to the understanding of purpose, potential, ego and humankind actually died at 62 before he was able to finish his most important work. In fact he was somewhat troubled because he realized he was at the verge of a breakthrough and at the same time he knew that his health wouldn't allow him to finish his most important project. Meanwhile Mao Zedong, a monster, who was of service to no one, lived to be 82 years.

The universe doesn't care and won't protect you.

First of all one can't judge the monster. One can never know how things will unfold. 

The universe isn't protecting anyone. It's just runs its program. Although one might get protection from an energy residing in a different dimension according to some Enlightened Ones.

[cuteguy]

How did you know that Abraham Maslow didn't finish his "project" just before he died?

How do you know that Abraham Maslow didn't finish his "project" is his 20s and after that he was just lying all along.

How do you know that Mao wasn't "an enlightened being" who chose the path of the devil? (Because that can happen as well)

You are projecting a lot of things my friend! But then again, how do I know that you aren't just pretending that you don't know? Just like Mao maybe.

Edited March 18, 2021 by cuteguy

[tatsumaru]

31 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

Depends what you mean. If you are implying some sort of "the secret" effect here then that's obviously bogus for if negative thoughts were powerful in that way no airplane would ever reach its destination. On the other hand thoughts definitely have some power as they define our behaviour and in the long term our future.

 

31 minutes ago, SourceCodo said:

I care about things, concepts, individuals. At least it seems like I do. And I am a representative of this universe, so I can't help but disagree. 

Well maybe I didn't word this artfully enough. When Paulo Coehlo speaks of the universe in that quote he certainly doesn't mean that other people conspire to help you. If you read the alchemist you will see that there's this implication that there's this higher power that's being referred to as "the universe" which coordinates human destinies on top of our own minds. In other words while we are part of all this and we certainly are able to care, the implication is that there's more to life than our own minds.

 

31 minutes ago, freejoy said:

First of all one can't judge the monster. One can never know how things will unfold. 

The universe isn't protecting anyone. It's just runs its program. Although one might get protection from an energy residing in a different dimension according to some Enlightened Ones.

You can certainly judge. Yasuhiko Genku Kimura in his "The Twilight Manifesto" wrote "No human being is infallible. All of us from time to time err in our judgement. However, that should not be the reason for for forfeiting our responsibility, as conscious beings, to think and know or to judge and evaluate. By the very fact of being conscious, not only are we qualified to but also we are required to judge and evaluate the characters of other people and their actions as well as, more importantly, the characters of ourselves and our actions. Therefore, the precept of non-judgement is fundamentally against human nature, and wherefore unethical." He also wrote: "The question is not "to judge or not to judge?" which is not even a valid question, but "on what is our judgement based?"". In other words - to say that one shouldn't judge because one's judgement isn't perfect is like saying that one shouldn't think or evaluate because one's thoughts and evaluations aren't perfect. People who cling too much for validation to their rationality become ignorant of the data their feelings and experiences provide and start living in parallel worlds of concepts which essentially don't contain any truth unto themselves and can't satisfy and logical condition fully. The compassionate and ethical thing is for the world to acknowledge Mao's insanity but also understand that we are all on our journey to wisdom and depending on how far we are, we are more or less insane and could express that insanity if given enough power.

 

40 minutes ago, cuteguy said:

How did you know that Abraham Maslow didn't finish his "project" just before he died?

How do you know that Abraham Maslow didn't finish his "project" is his 20s and after that he was just lying all along.

How do you know that Mao wasn't "an enlightened being" who chose the path of the devil? (Because that can happen as well)

You are projecting a lot of things my friend! But then again, how do I know that you aren't just pretending that you don't know? Just like Mao maybe.

I understand your confusion. You are still in the hyperrational stage of your evolution which brought some of the ancient philosophers as well as many of the modern ones to nothing but nihilism. Questions such as "how do you know that you know" or statements like "nothing can be known, not even this" are popular among this sad group. In fact a few years ago I was stuck with this problem and wrote a thread here which got some really good replies. Check it out:

The last video is quite insightful.

[cuteguy]

10 minutes ago, tatsumaru said:

I understand your confusion. You are still in the hyperrational stage of your evolution which brought some of the ancient philosophers as well as many of the modern ones to nothing but nihilism. Questions such as "how do you know that you know" or statements like "nothing can be known, not even this" are popular among this sad group. In fact a few years ago I was stuck with this problem and wrote a thread here which got some really good replies. Check it out:

I'm just a sad nihilist. What else would you expect from me?

[freejoy]

26 minutes ago, tatsumaru said:

 

You can certainly judge. Yasuhiko Genku Kimura in his "The Twilight Manifesto" wrote "No human being is infallible. All of us from time to time err in our judgement. However, that should not be the reason for for forfeiting our responsibility, as conscious beings, to think and know or to judge and evaluate. By the very fact of being conscious, not only are we qualified to but also we are required to judge and evaluate the characters of other people and their actions as well as, more importantly, the characters of ourselves and our actions. Therefore, the precept of non-judgement is fundamentally against human nature, and wherefore unethical." He also wrote: "The question is not "to judge or not to judge?" which is not even a valid question, but "on what is our judgement based?"". In other words - to say that one shouldn't judge because one's judgement isn't perfect is like saying that one shouldn't think or evaluate because one's thoughts and evaluations aren't perfect. People who cling too much for validation to their rationality become ignorant of the data their feelings and experiences provide and start living in parallel worlds of concepts which essentially don't contain any truth unto themselves and can't satisfy and logical condition fully. The compassionate and ethical thing is for the world to acknowledge Mao's insanity but also understand that we are all on our journey to wisdom and depending on how far we are, we are more or less insane and could express that insanity if given enough power.

 

Yes, we judge and make evaluations.

Judgement usually implies "right or wrong"

Everything just is. It is the way it is. 

For example, someone gets raped. If we are there in that moment we most likely try to stop the rapest, because we see that as not highly evolved or even "bad"

But who's to say we are correct in stopping the rape? Say we weren't there to stop it. Maybe a child is born and makes many positive changes in the world.

 

[Breakingthewall]

@tatsumaru

the universe gives you what you need. it may be that you as an ego would have preferred something else

[zeroISinfinity]

@freejoy

Well enlightened folks will watch it and don't do anything both advaita types and these actual ones. 

What will I do. Doesn't matter. Don't want to go against concensus. 

[WaveInTheOcean]

4 hours ago, tatsumaru said:

Paulo Coelho once said "And, when you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it."

Then I found out that Abraham Maslow who was about to uncover possibly the most important piece of wisdom in psychology with his last theory of transcendence and deliver incredible value to the understanding of purpose, potential, ego and humankind actually died at 62 before he was able to finish his most important work. In fact he was somewhat troubled because he realized he was at the verge of a breakthrough and at the same time he knew that his health wouldn't allow him to finish his most important project. Meanwhile Mao Zedong, a monster, who was of service to no one, lived to be 82 years.

The universe doesn't care and won't protect you.

Widen your definition of 'I' or 'you'.

Maslow's breakthrough might just happen to be his death.

There needs to be evil in the world, for the same reason that there needs to be conflict/evil in a movie for it to be a good film.

It's all love bro, one day you will see.

[Thought Art]

God loves everyone equally. You don't get brownie points for being a good boy. You are safe, but not your ego. 

And there is truth to wha Coelho says from my own direct experience.

But, It's like anything and should be applied in a nuanced way.

[PureRogueQ]

6 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

Idk if thoughts is right word , but idea is so spot on, if they would understand how free they actually can be  and that only thing that is holding them back is understanding it , overcoming illusionary limitations of accumulated memory that is telling who you are, how what should feel.

[Alexander Nigma]

7 hours ago, tatsumaru said:

Paulo Coelho once said "And, when you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it."

Then I found out that Abraham Maslow who was about to uncover possibly the most important piece of wisdom in psychology with his last theory of transcendence and deliver incredible value to the understanding of purpose, potential, ego and humankind actually died at 62 before he was able to finish his most important work. In fact he was somewhat troubled because he realized he was at the verge of a breakthrough and at the same time he knew that his health wouldn't allow him to finish his most important project. Meanwhile Mao Zedong, a monster, who was of service to no one, lived to be 82 years.

The universe doesn't care and won't protect you.

The only reason you are saying that is because you have the wrong conceptualisation of who you are. To say that the universe won’t protect you using this argument, we have to assume that physically dying is somewhat wrong and the amount of time you spend on this earth as some significance? It ain’t even about that. This is duality. Duality is very easy to get lost in.

[tatsumaru]

9 hours ago, freejoy said:

But who's to say we are correct in stopping the rape? Say we weren't there to stop it. Maybe a child is born and makes many positive changes in the world.

When did spirituality become a synonym for laziness and ignorance... If you want to abdicate your humanness and agency and pretend that ignorance (literally to ignore) is a virtue then be my guest, but don't mistake that for some valuable piece of wisdom. To be alive is to be responsible (able to respond). If you are unable to respond you are deluded and you are of service to no one.

3 hours ago, Kalo said:

I am God in human flesh.

The universe is dependent on me, not the other way around.

Whatever rocks your boat buddy.

3 hours ago, Alexander Nigma said:

This is duality.

You need a better understanding of how systems work. Whether death is good or bad is irrelevant. There's momentum and there's disintegration of momentum. It's clear that the oscillation between life and death doesn't take place instantly and this results in a certain sort of temporary structure that makes potential possible. You can't build a building out of liquid water, but you can a build an igloo out of ice. Life is like an igloo, it's temporary but that doesn't make it insignificant, because the life of the individual also forms a larger system of humankind that evolves based on the contribution of each participant. If you die before you share your contribution with humankind there's tremendous loss.

 

[Gesundheit]

@tatsumaru It's not about scientific evidence to prove the effects of thoughts on reality. It's about you taking full responsibility for the quality of your life. I noticed you said "some power", but I want you to challenge that idea.

The first self-help book I've ever read says:

Watch your thoughts before they turn into actions.

Watch your actions before they turn into patterns.

Watch your patterns before they turn into habits.

Watch your habits before they turn into identity.

Your thoughts dictate who you are and your overall experience.

[freejoy]

2 hours ago, tatsumaru said:

When did spirituality become a synonym for laziness and ignorance... If you want to abdicate your humanness and agency and pretend that ignorance (literally to ignore) is a virtue then be my guest, but don't mistake that for some valuable piece of wisdom. To be alive is to be responsible (able to respond). If you are unable to respond you are deluded and you are of service to no one.

 

I'm not sure how you are extrapolating all this from my statement?

[Bojan V]

@freejoy Do you assume that only an adult woman can be raped? What if a man or a child are raped? Rape should always be stoped and the rapists punished.

[freejoy]

12 minutes ago, Bojan V said:

@freejoy Do you assume that only an adult woman can be raped? What if a man or a child are raped? Rape should always be stoped and the rapists punished.

There are no "shoulds"

What would love do?

[Bojan V]

@Gesundheit

1 hour ago, Gesundheit said:

@tatsumaru

The first self-help book I've ever read says:

Watch your thoughts before they turn into actions.

Watch your actions before they turn into patterns.

Watch your patterns before they turn into habits.

Watch your habits before they turn into identity.

Your thoughts dictate who you are and your overall experience.

It was a bad self-help book. A psyche doesn't work that way.

Most of my thoughts have never turned into actions.

None of my actions have ever turned into patterns whatever the patterns are. My patterns were already established in my early childhood mostly by my parents. Same thing with the habits.

My identities were established in my early childhood as well.

My thoughts do NOT dictate who i am and my overall experience. They certainly are part of my experience but so are many other things. 

I don't believe in this type of magical thinking. It's imported from the Usa and there are better self-help books around the world then the one you mentioned.