White fragility

[Tim R]

I'm sure those of you who live in the US are somewhat more familiar with this term "White Fragility".  It's the title of a book written by Robin DiAngelo and it's basically about the defensive attitude of white people when they're being confronted with the issue of racism. 

I just watched this video and suddenly I realized: holy sh*t, she sounds exactly like a priest. She's using different words, but says the same thing. Good ol' Christian guilt trip, only applied in a different field. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. You're guilty either way. And if you admit to be wrong, you're sure to be right. 

What do you think about this? Is this idea of "white fragility" itself inherently racist? 

[Rilles]

This is Stage Green at its most confrontational, I kind of understand where they are coming from but at the same time I think its making it worse not better, a softer more systemic Yellow approach would be better. But I also understand this is where we are as a society, unity vs division, were becoming extremely divided only to become more united in the next 50-100 years. 

If you can avoid being triggered or identifying too much with being male/white/western/hetero then this Green phase has alot of good meta points that are very useful, but most people arent that detached from their cultural identity, or mature. 

Edited March 18, 2021 by Rilles

[Preety_India]

@Tim R

No it's not wrong. Whenever I confronted my racist white ex boyfriend on his racism towards me, he used to be terribly upset as though I committed a crime by bringing it up. 

In essence, 

White Fragility is Real. 

White people don't like to hear narratives on racism. 

It hurts their Ego and Pride. 

When someone talks to a white person about racism, it's not about blaming them or guilting them but making them understand that racism is extremely hurtful and causes harm long term to all races. 

It breeds hate against other races and minorities and makes their life miserable. 

The fact that many white people are offended by simply referring to racism, says how real White Fragility is 

White  fragility is the biggest reason why non white people can never talk about racism. 

 

[Opo]

18 minutes ago, Tim R said:

What do you think about this? Is this idea of "white fragility" itself inherently racist?  

"Of course!" 

 

AmpleRapidFlee-mobile.mp4

[Parththakkar12]

45 minutes ago, Tim R said:

What do you think about this? Is this idea of "white fragility" itself inherently racist? 

It's not racist per se, it puts the finger on a real issue. However, it can fuel anti-white racism. It can be used to justify one's ethnocentrism by non-whites.

It makes an enemy of white ethnocentrism, which is all good and fine if white ethnocentrism leads to racism. However, you don't want to make an enemy of the white race. When you start doing that, (which a lot of POCs are very prone to, simply because their own culture is at say Stage Blue), you are demonizing the other race's ethnocentrism to justify your own ethnocentrism. This is not Stage Green behavior, this is Stage Blue behavior taking advantage of SJW causes to further one's own agenda.

You want to talk about 'white fragility' only once you've solidified your own identity in your own race. For example, you don't want to have 'black fragility' or 'asian fragility', you want to work that stuff out before you go telling another race to not be fragile!

Edited March 18, 2021 by Parththakkar12

[Preety_India]

@Parththakkar12

Anti racism is ≠ ethnocentrism. 

Do not create a false equivalency. 

Anti racism is fighting racism to create a respectful space for all races to coexist in dignity and equal rights. 

Get your facts right 

 

[Preety_India]

Also white fragility is a phenomenon that makes discussing racism with white people very difficult. 

Evidence is already visible on this thread alone. 

White fragility ≠ racism. 

 

[Parththakkar12]

@Preety_India My facts are right.

[Preety_India]

@Parththakkar12 explain me why  discussing racism is ethnocentrism? 

 

[Parththakkar12]

@Preety_India That question assumes that I said that 'discussing racism is ethnocentrism'. I never said that!

Edited March 18, 2021 by Parththakkar12

[Preety_India]

@Parththakkar12 you mean to say races don't exist? 

 

[Parththakkar12]

@Preety_India I never said that either. Now that you're asking me whether races exist or not, on an Absolute level, they don't exist.

We do have very strong racial identities though, so the 'Do races exist?' question is irrelevant to the topic of racism.

[Preety_India]

18 minutes ago, Parththakkar12 said:

You want to talk about 'white fragility' only once you've solidified your own identity in your own race. For example, you don't want to have 'black fragility' or 'asian fragility', you want to work that stuff out before you go telling another race to not be fragile!

How do you account for racial differences? 

How do you account for biological differences in races? 

Why is my skin color different from the skin color of a white person? 

 

[Parththakkar12]

4 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

How do you account for racial differences? 

How do you account for biological differences in races? 

Why is my skin color different from the skin color of a white person? 

 

The only biological difference is the difference in melanin pigment in your skin, which really doesn't matter to real life. Fundamentally, race doesn't matter. All the consequences of having a certain skin-color are socially constructed. None of them are natural, really.

The social consequences, though, are very real. There are entire collective identities of races. Race is so fundamentally a part of your identity, your racial identity is so strong that if you really identify with your race, you will only feel a sense of belonging with the people of your race. That's ethnocentrism and that's the breeding-ground for racism, with very serious social consequences.

Edited March 18, 2021 by Parththakkar12

[Preety_India]

@Parththakkar12 try to understand the meaning of anti-racism. 

It's not about dissolving racial boundaries or differences between races. 

It's about embracing these differences. 

Your stand of anti-racism is akin to saying races don't exist and so people should not even talk about race 

This is like saying if a banana is racist to orange, just stop discussing the differences between a banana and orange. Both are fruits and identified as fruits and are different in terms of their composition. 

Yet they both can coexist with respect for each other. 

Anti racism is not the denial of such differences but the embracing and acceptance of such differences in a non offensive manner that gives dignity to both races involved. 

 

[Parththakkar12]

@Preety_India I understand the meaning of anti-racism. I don't need you to educate me on that! I'm shining some light though on what I've observed when people talk about anti-racism, especially white fragility. It comes across as an attack on the white race. 

What we need to understand whenever we take a stand against something that it generally doesn't work. It compunds the very problem that you're taking a stand against. My homework assignment to you is to contemplate why that is the case.

[Preety_India]

6 minutes ago, Parththakkar12 said:

The only biological difference is the difference in melanin pigment in your skin, which really doesn't matter to real life. Fundamentally, race doesn't matter. All the consequences of having a certain skin-color are socially constructed. None of them are natural, really.

Please do research on different races before making this false claim. 

That's why I said to get your facts right. 

 

Read that. It shows you the biological differences with respect to medical issues. 

Doctors always have to take into account the race of the patient they are treated that's why there is a race column while filling medical forms and reports.. 

A particular medication might not create an inflammatory reaction in a white person but it may create a huge allergic reaction in a black person 

While doing clinical trials, doctors have to take these factors into consideration to create a universally acceptable drug that will be tolerable by most races. 

Race is not the difference in skin color alone. It means a host of biological differences between two groups of people. 

In a spiritual sense these differences don't matter and are irrelevant.. 

But in reality, these differences matter while making important decisions and collecting statistics. 

 

[Preety_India]

3 minutes ago, Parththakkar12 said:

It comes across as an attack on the white race. 

That's exactly what white fragility is! A false perception and projection that discussing racism is somehow an attack on the white race. 

The fact that it comes across as that way when the intent is to create a respectful equal spaces between races is projection in itself. 

And projection is not anyone's issue other than  that of the projector. 

 

[Parththakkar12]

@Preety_India Kay fine. You win the blame-game. Congrats. Here's a cookie.

 

[Preety_India]

@Parththakkar12 you make it a blame game because you think that way. Again it's a projection. 

The humor is too dry sorry.