White fragility

[Forestluv]

6 minutes ago, Woke456 said:

Sitting around taking psychadelics is passive.  If you want to enhance your cognitive abilities, I would recommend breathing exercises so you can participate much easier in civilization instead of knocking out the part of your brain that categorizes.

I do an hour of breathwork every night and haven't taken a psychedelic for about a year. Be mindful of assumptions and projections of the mind.

In the larger holism, both breathwork and psychedelics have value. You can see value within breathwork, yet you are missing value within psychedelics. 

There are different dynamics regarding the rigidity and fluidity of category creation. Observe how your mind is creating categories and the balance between rigidity / fluidity as well as attachment / letting go. 

[Woke456]

14 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

I do an hour of breathwork every night and haven't taken a psychedelic for about a year.

Good, you'll start becoming more sensible as time goes on..

[vladorion]

Can someone provide any real examples of systemic racism in the US?

[NOTintoxicated]

1 hour ago, vladorion said:

Can someone provide any real examples of systemic racism in the US?

Is this question your idea of a joke? Sincerely wondering.

https://www.sentencingproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Black-Lives-Matter.pdf
(Extensive document on racial biases in our criminal justice system)

• Studies seem to indicate about 61-80% of black overrepresentation in prisons can be explained by higher black crime rates, with the unexplained portion largely attributable to racial bias.
• Remember - the factors which lead to disproportionate criminality amongst black Americans are also in large part a product of racial bias. Underfunded public programs, redlining, generational poverty, bad schooling, and myriad other factors which influence criminality can also be traced to racial bias.

http://www.justicepolicy.org/uploads/justicepolicy/documents/vortex.pdf
(The Concentrated Racial Impact of Drug Imprisonment and the Characteristics of Punitive Counties)

• While White & Black Americans admit to using and selling illicit drugs at similar rates, Black Americans are VASTLY more likely to go to prison for a drug offense.
• In 2002, Black Americans were incarcerated for drug offenses at TEN TIMES the rate of White Americans.
• Today, Blacks are 3.7x as likely to be arrested for a marijuana offense as Whites, despite similar usage.
• 97% of “large-population counties” have racial biases in their drug offense incarceration

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-020-0858-1.pdf
(A large-scale analysis of racial disparities in police stops across the United States)

• Enormous study of nearly 100,000,000 traffic stops conducted across America.
• Analysis finds the bar for searching black and hispanic drivers’ cars is significantly lower than the bar for white drivers.
• Additionally, black drivers are less likely to be pulled over after sunset, when “a ‘veil of darkness’ masks ones’ race”.

https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/research-and-publications/research-publications/2017/20171114_Demographics.pdf
(Demographic Differences in Sentencing: An Update to the 2012 Booker Report)

• Extensive multivariate regression analysis indicates black male offenders receive 19.1% longer federal sentences than similarly-situated white male offenders (white male offenders with similar past offenses, socioeconomic background, etc.)
• This disparity seems to stem mostly from black males being 21.2% less likely to receive non-government sponsored downward departures or variances.
• Non-government sponsored departures and variances refer to deviations from standard sentencing guidelines due to judicial discretion.
• Black males who do receive non government-sponsored departures and variations still serve 16.8% longer sentences than white males on average.
• In contrast, when sentencing length follows standard guidelines, that disparity is only 7.9%, and a substantial assistance departure for both groups nullifies that disparity.
• IN SUMMARY - much of the sentencing disparity between similarly situated black males and white males comes down to judicial discretion to deviate from standard sentencing guidelines.
• BONUS - regression analysis suggests violence in a criminal’s history does NOT explain sentencing disparities between black males and similarly situated white males - the effect of that factor seems to be statistically insignificant.
• ADDENDUM - Some have asked me to clarify a sentence at the end of this report, where its authors write it cannot be used to prove discrimination on the part of judges. First, that disclaimer warns against inferring active

Now just imagine how many examples I would have provided if I weren't unfathomably lazy.

[Woke456]

@NOTintoxicated

This is the most pathetic attempt at statistical research I have ever seen in my life.  Did you know that 50% of homicides are committed by black people yet they only make up 30% of police shootings? 

I'm 100% certain if the races were reversed in that you'd be running around screaming bloody rape.

[NOTintoxicated]

Just now, Woke456 said:

@NOTintoxicated

This is the most pathetic attempt at statistical research I have ever seen in my life.  Did you know that 50% of homicides are committed by black people yet they only make up 30% of police shootings? 

I'm 100% certain if the races were reversed in that you'd be running around screaming bloody rape.

This just in: Derek Chauvin lover foams at the mouth over empirical statistics incontestably proving systemic racism. 

My good sir, I'm afraid you may be outright devastated by the pending epiphany of how staggeringly dim-witted you undeniably are, if it ever somehow occurred to you. The existence of the statistic you've posted does not negate anything I have cited. I cannot even fathom being so laughably foolish as to believe that you've disproven anything I've said by citing the existence of a noncontradictory statistic (one that is commonly thrown around by literal neo-nazis). 

I won't dispute the accuracy of the statistic you've cited, but I will explain the nuanced negation of your ignorance for the rest of the community who actually cares about a rational assessment of these matters. I know you will not comprehend the following refutation, nor give credence to the unassailable merit herein, on the basis of your hatred for minorities, but I know this rebuttal will be useful for those of us who are not recovering from a frontal lobotomy or who's parents are not brother and sister.

The reason why you cannot dismiss the narrative of systemic racism by citing the statistic of 50% of homicides being committed by POC despite making up only 30% of police shootings (or any other rendition of the infamous 13/50 argument that nazis cling to), is because the root of the issue of black people being subject to higher rates of criminality is mainly an issue of socio-economic standing. Subsisting in poverty will universally beget higher criminality rates, and black people, having began their existence in America under the oppression of slavery, have never been allowed the means to recover from this maltreatment that forced them into this economic status. The fact that black people are getting killed by police is not automatically indicative of racism per se, at least not from the police involved necessarily, but it is in fact an inevitable result from being subjugated to the oppression that has stifled the black community since the Jim Crow era. It obviously is not as bad today as it was back then, but the inability to recover from the initially egregious injustice has established the black community as a perpetually marginalized class that will need major systemic emboldening to uplift. As long as these warranted restorative efforts are denied to POC, the black community will continue to subsist under predispositions which necessarily beget criminality, and will be the subjects of police brutality so long as the police refuse to restructure its institution which is inclined to unjustly abuse people of all races. Black people will always get the short end of the stick pertaining to police brutality so long as they are the predominant group of lower socio-economic status in America. It may be true that police are hesitant to kill black people due to political pressures, but this does not change the fact that black people are disproportionately murdered by the police relative to other races.

[Woke456]

 

26 minutes ago, NOTintoxicated said:

The fact that black people are getting killed by police is not automatically indicative of racism per se

I appreciate that you've realized something.  It takes a big man to admit this, and this is literally half the reason people were rioting.

 

18 minutes ago, NOTintoxicated said:

the root of the issue of black people being subject to higher rates of criminality is mainly an issue of socio-economic standing

So now the argument has shifted from racism to an argument for Marxism.  I knew that was your main goal all along, but I think it would be better if people were more honest about this from the get-go.

That being said, I must point out that I'd much rather walk around a slum in SE Asia or South Asia than black neighborhoods in North Carolina where they literally have air conditioned apartments.

[Epikur]

1 hour ago, Woke456 said:

 

I appreciate that you've realized something.  It takes a big man to admit this, and this is literally half the reason people were rioting.

 

So now the argument has shifted from racism to an argument for Marxism.  I knew that was your main goal all along, but I think it would be better if people were more honest about this from the get-go.

That being said, I must point out that I'd much rather walk around a slum in SE Asia or South Asia than black neighborhoods in North Carolina where they literally have air conditioned apartments.

Reminds me of Vaush, if you don't know what to say, say it is because of socio economic reasons. You don't have to come with any prove. 

[Woke456]

@Epikur Lol, the mods just gave me warning points for "stereotyping" on a thread that's literally stereotyping at least two whole racial groups itself.

[NOTintoxicated]

34 minutes ago, Epikur said:

Reminds me of Vaush, if you don't know what to say, say it is because of socio economic reasons. You don't have to come with any prove. 

Just proudly have your blatant ignorance on display. Nevermind that I cited a mountain of evidence pertaining to systemic racism.

Here's more "proof" that black criminality is not inherent to POC genetically, but is in fact socio-economically determined. Predictably, you won't acknowledge it as valid because you are probably a literal neo-nazi.

Sources:
Criminology (2003) study found that environmental and social differences accounted for the gap in crime rates among racial groups, not simply innate tendencies of any race.
https://www.academia.edu/19482806/EXPLAINING_RACIAL_AND_ETHNIC_DIFFERENCES_IN_SERIOUS_ADOLESCENT_VIOLENT_BEHAVIOR_

Developmental Psychology (1986) study observing mean IQ scores among black/interracial children raised by white parents relative to black parents, finding that the differences in socialization "were large enough to account for virtually entire Black-White IQ gap," undeniably giving merit to the environmental argument.
https://data.information.dk/upload/2019/viden/Moore.pdf

World Archaeology (2006) study debunking claims that evolutionary genetics account for intelligence gaps between prehistoric blacks and whites.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/249007312_Africanist_archaeology_and_ancient_IQ_Racial_science_and_cultural_evolution_in_the_twenty-first_century

West Virginia University - The Research Repository (2010) study found implicit racial bias among courtroom judgements of ambiguous evidence and verifies jurors are significantly more likely perceive race-neutral evidence against dark-skinned suspects as incriminating, contributing to black incarceration, thus bolstering environmental disadvantages.
https://researchrepository.wvu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1315&context=wvlr

[Epikur]

48 minutes ago, Woke456 said:

@Epikur Lol, the mods just gave me warning points for "stereotyping" on a thread that's literally stereotyping at least two whole racial groups itself.

Just tone down 90 per cent then all is good.

[NOTintoxicated]

3 minutes ago, Epikur said:

Just tone down 90 per cent then all is good.

This is how a fascist operates. 

He makes an assertion of my inability to provide evidence while overlooking the mountain of evidence I posted, then when I proceed to cite more evidence, he just ignores it entirely and defers to the far less challenging task of assisting his fellow nazi with advice on how to avoid being spotted as a contemptible cretin.

[Epikur]

3 minutes ago, NOTintoxicated said:

This is how a fascist operates. 

He makes an assertion of my inability to provide evidence while overlooking the mountain of evidence I posted, then when I proceed to cite more evidence, he just ignores it entirely and defers to the far less challenging task of assisting his fellow nazi with advice on how to avoid being spotted as a contemptible cretin.

Relax my friend. Epistomology is not easy. Science is a difficult thing. 

 

Quote

Twin studies of intelligence have reported high heritability values.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence#Heritability_within_and_between_groups
 

 

[Moksha]

General warning to stop the personal insults. Keep it focused on the topic, or the thread will be locked. Thanks.

[Ponder]

Of course the idea of "white fragility" is inherently racist because (well, you guessed it) it's about race. There's nothing fragile about anyone unless we allow ourselves to be fragile. Of course the whole free will debate comes in now. But (as come to the conclusion myself) "free will" is a paradox. We both have it and we don't. In terms of chemistry etc. we don't of course, but it surely FEELS like we have it, and life's about feeling not thinking. The best thing to do as a human is to take 100% responsibility for everything that happens to you and for your actions. 

Edited March 29, 2021 by Ponder

[Forestluv]

@Woke456 You can share right-wing views, yet you need to show some open-mindedness, intellectual curiosity, effort and nuance. Mindlessly parroting right-wing points like "You're a Marxist!!" won't cut it. As well, there are minimal consciousness standards on the forum. Mindsets like denying climate change, denying systemic racism, coronavirus hoaxing, flat-earthing, Qanon, god hates homosexuality etc. are below the minimal standards.  

[Epikur]

BDS purity test and woke supremacy for the fragile whites
 

 

Edited March 31, 2021 by Epikur

[Yog]

Guys, I am not from the US, but, I've been there a couple of extended times. So I am looking at this from a perspective that is based on the little first hand experience I have and some historical context, interviews and other internet material.

Anyway my problem and question is. I just can't warp my head around why is the term "systemic racism" used. I certainly understand many of the implicit and sneaky ways racism is both happening and is being perpetuated. But I can not see how is it being "systemic", or why is the word even used in the phrase, what is it meant to describe.

As I understand it, for it to be systemic, there have to be specific parts directly build into the system in a explicit way. Parts that are directly written and are explicitly discriminatory and racist. Like the visible and actual gears of a clock, or a specific visible pipe, or a valve in a water pipe system. I assume you do not have job postings looking for "5 white people", or places saying "no black people allowed". I can see how there can be a bias and this can still happen under the table, but I do not see how is it systemic. It feels to me like we are pushing poop into the water pipes, and blaming it on the water pipe system.

Are there any such things, if so, why isn't anyone bringing them forth, am I naive and uneducated on this ? As of now I find the phrase extremely misleading. I can understand most people resisting it by just looking at the phrase.

[Rilles]

53 minutes ago, Yog said:

Guys, I am not from the US, but, I've been there a couple of extended times. So I am looking at this from a perspective that is based on the little first hand experience I have and some historical context, interviews and other internet material.

Anyway my problem and question is. I just can't warp my head around why is the term "systemic racism" used. I certainly understand many of the implicit and sneaky ways racism is both happening and is being perpetuated. But I can not see how is it being "systemic", or why is the word even used in the phrase, what is it meant to describe.

As I understand it, for it to be systemic, there have to be specific parts directly build into the system in a explicit way. Parts that are directly written and are explicitly discriminatory and racist. Like the visible and actual gears of a clock, or a specific visible pipe, or a valve in a water pipe system. I assume you do not have job postings looking for "5 white people", or places saying "no black people allowed". I can see how there can be a bias and this can still happen under the table, but I do not see how is it systemic. It feels to me like we are pushing poop into the water pipes, and blaming it on the water pipe system.

Are there any such things, if so, why isn't anyone bringing them forth, am I naive and uneducated on this ? As of now I find the phrase extremely misleading. I can understand most people resisting it by just looking at the phrase.

 

[Forestluv]

6 hours ago, Yog said:

As I understand it, for it to be systemic, there have to be specific parts directly build into the system in a explicit way. Parts that are directly written and are explicitly discriminatory and racist. Like the visible and actual gears of a clock, or a specific visible pipe, or a valve in a water pipe system. I assume you do not have job postings looking for "5 white people", or places saying "no black people allowed".

That is a misunderstanding of systemic racism.

Confusion arises due to the construct you create that you call “systemic racism”. The construct of systemic racism you present is aligned with the consciousness of 1951 and Jim Crow laws. Our understanding of racism within systems is much more advanced today. 

A white person could blind themself to 99% of racism with systems by the lens they wear and filtering out forms of racism. Often, the filtering is subconscious.