White fragility

[CultivateLove]

28 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

Just having the luck to be born into a first world nation is a form of privilege; whether you were born into fortunate or unfortunate circumstances is beyond an individual's control, so it would be silly to be guilt ridden about something you've had no choice in.

I 100% agree

Edited March 18, 2021 by CultivateLove

[Yog]

I do not like the fact that in the very design of the concept/phrase, (just as many others similar to it), has an open egrigore feeding tube, with no lock, installed in plain sight.

I wonder why wasn't a phrase such as "majority fragility" used instead of "white fragility" Its way more correct and the egrigoric tube is controlled and optional.

 

Edited March 18, 2021 by Yog

[Willie]

3 hours ago, Yog said:

I do not like the fact that in the very design of the concept/phrase, (just as many others similar to it), has an open egrigore feeding tube, with no lock, installed in plain sight.

I wonder why wasn't a phrase such as "majority fragility" used instead of "white fragility" Its way more correct and the egrigoric tube is controlled and optional.

 

Probably for the same reason “majority power” wasn’t a slogan for anything.

[Yog]

16 hours ago, Willie said:

Probably for the same reason “majority power” wasn’t a slogan for anything.

I thought, it probably wasn't the short-sight of "I got my perceptions, now I'll just use the most accurate language to describe it and this is the best I got, so I'll just write "white" and label>bring it into being, that way " . It looks to me that It was purposely designed in that way. To be tribal and slogan like, I do not mean it in conspiratorial way, just in technical.

If a change of power is about to occur and this philosophy to get a bit into the practical world, one has to rally people behind slogans that will create a feeling of union and oneness in some aspect and rally man power be able to initiate change. We have to agree that we are slaves, acknowledge what kind of power dynamic makes us slaves and only when we are aware of it, together we can initiate change. It got the bitter part of changing power as we know it, quite a bit right actually. It will be painful and ...  mental, emotional or physical Force will have to be used. Its not as pretty as we like it to be.

Still even in its rightness, I feel its way too tainted by the social constructionist view and an the enormous emphasis on nurture. This is a huge problem that creates excess green imho. Its the part where "its socialy constructed" and "humans are a blank slate", thus "can be reprogrammed" goes too far into dangerous ideological waters. This is where an egregore possession is not just possible, but very common.

[DocWatts]

1 hour ago, Yog said:

I thought, it probably wasn't the short-sight of "I got my perceptions, now I'll just use the most accurate language to describe it and this is the best I got, so I'll just write "white" and label>bring it into being, that way " . It looks to me that It was purposely designed in that way. To be tribal and slogan like, I do not mean it in conspiratorial way, just in technical.

If a change of power is about to occur and this philosophy to get a bit into the practical world, one has to rally people behind slogans that will create a feeling of union and oneness in some aspect and rally man power be able to initiate change. We have to agree that we are slaves, acknowledge what kind of power dynamic makes us slaves and only when we are aware of it, together we can initiate change. It got the bitter part of changing power as we know it, quite a bit right actually. It will be painful and ...  mental, emotional or physical Force will have to be used. Its not as pretty as we like it to be.

Still even in its rightness, I feel its way too tainted by the social constructionist view and an the enormous emphasis on nurture. This is a huge problem that creates excess green imho. Its the part where "its socialy constructed" and "humans are a blank slate", thus "can be reprogrammed" goes too far into dangerous ideological waters. This is where an egregore possession is not just possible, but very common.

The 'true but partial' aspect applies to Social Construction Theory as much as it does to anything else.

As insightful as Social Construct Theory is, it's also an unavoidable reality that any complex social theory will become flattened and simplified as it permeates beyond the confines of its original authors.

This isn't always a bad thing, but it can lead to situations where it's being applied to subjects and situations it wasn't designed to critique, resulting in sloppy applications of said theory, which can lead to Reductionism.

Edited March 19, 2021 by DocWatts

[NorthRise]

On 3/18/2021 at 7:12 AM, Preety_India said:

@Tim R

When someone talks to a white person about racism, it's not about blaming them or guilting them but making them understand that racism is extremely hurtful and causes harm long term to all races. 

I agree that might be the intended point of talking to white people about racism, but oftentimes the people doing the talking are not effective at communicating this information. 

[NorthRise]

On 3/18/2021 at 8:54 AM, Preety_India said:

Cancel culture also helps in preventing future  events of racism. Most recent Example is of Sharon Osborne being reprimanded by CBS for her racist comments on the talk show. This gives a signal that racism won't be tolerated. 

I could not disagree more. Cancel culture doesn't allow for people to acknowledge their mistakes and grow from them. In order to get someone to change, you must educate them about what they've done wrong and why it's not the right way to act. Canceling them does nothing to correct their actions and just completely removes them from the equation altogether. Then from that point on they will be wearing a scarlet letter that they can never escape from. There should be very few actions that should follow someone forever if they have acknowledged their wrongdoing and have course-corrected. 

[Preety_India]

Just now, NorthRise said:

I could not disagree more. Cancel culture doesn't allow for people to acknowledge their mistakes and grow from them. In order to get someone to change, you must educate them about what they've done wrong and why it's not the right way to act. Canceling them does nothing to correct their actions and just completely removes them from the equation altogether. Then from that point on they will be wearing a scarlet letter that they can never escape from. There should be very few actions that should follow someone forever if they have acknowledged their wrongdoing and have course-corrected. 

Sometimes educating doesn't work especially with dogmatic people who don't want to learn but continue causing harm. 

 

[Willie]

3 hours ago, NorthRise said:

I could not disagree more. Cancel culture doesn't allow for people to acknowledge their mistakes and grow from them. In order to get someone to change, you must educate them about what they've done wrong and why it's not the right way to act. Canceling them does nothing to correct their actions and just completely removes them from the equation altogether. Then from that point on they will be wearing a scarlet letter that they can never escape from. There should be very few actions that should follow someone forever if they have acknowledged their wrongdoing and have course-corrected. 

I never thought about it that way, but that’s a fantastic analogy. We have a bunch of Hester Prynnes now who are stigmatized because of something they did or said.

[Danioover9000]

   What nonsense is this? White is not fragile, it's the accumulation of different light spectrums of different frequencies.

[fortifyacacia3]

Well, Take Vaush as an example of the left who really dislikes Robin DiAngelo and her book. A person who still agrees and understands that the conclusions of critical race theory are completely defensible. 

[Epikur]

 

[whatishappeningtome]

Just a heads up- a lot of leftists really dislike some of the ideas in this book and think they are actually very regressive. Look up the videos of Vaush and Michael Brooks on this subject. 

[Woke456]

On 3/20/2021 at 7:09 AM, Danioover9000 said:

   What nonsense is this? White is not fragile, it's the accumulation of different light spectrums of different frequencies.

They don't want white people (or the world) for that matter to have a conversation on what colored racists look like.  As you can guess, such brown and black people would talk about racism non-stop since they think only white people can be racist.  That's why they like talking about it.

Some people on the "left" also like discussing racism as a means to promote Marxism.  These people should be forced to visit gulag museums and khmer deatch camps.  

 

[NOTintoxicated]

4 minutes ago, Woke456 said:

They don't want white people (or the world) for that matter to have a conversation on what colored racists look like.  As you can guess, such brown and black people would talk about racism non-stop since they think only white people can be racist.  That's why they like talking about it.

Some people on the "left" also like discussing racism as a means to promote Marxism.  These people should be forced to visit gulag museums and khmer deatch camps.  

 

The straight white man just can't catch a break right? First some black dude stole your girlfriend in highschool and now the Jews stole the election in 2020, do I have your perspective pegged accurately? 

My fascist detector is signaling like mad.

[Woke456]

18 minutes ago, NOTintoxicated said:

The straight white man just can't catch a break right? First some black dude stole your girlfriend in highschool and now the Jews stole the election in 2020, do I have your perspective pegged accurately? 

My fascist detector is signaling like mad.

Notice how you disgaree with nothing I said and resort to ad hominem attacks.  Looks like I'm right, you really don't want us to discuss this.

Nevertheless, my perspective comes from the fact that I've actually sat down and watched a movie with like 10 black people before.  After that experience, I'll probably never see 'old white people' as racist again simply because the scope of the spectrum has changed for me.

Edited March 22, 2021 by Woke456

[NOTintoxicated]

@Woke456 I'll never get over this pretentious need to call every hurled insult an "ad hominem"? I understand you're desperate to give the false impression of academic merit, so you lazily throw out these ten dollar words as if I actually committed a logical fallacy. I did not insult you as a means to bolster any argument, so there was no fallacy committed; I just plain insulted you. 

There's no point in arguing with somebody who refers to black people as "colored racists" while likening Marxism to Soviet gulags. What am I supposed to say? Your comment is just comically asinine. 

 

[Woke456]

12 minutes ago, NOTintoxicated said:

@Woke456 I'll never get over this pretentious need to call every hurled insult an "ad hominem"? I understand you're desperate to give the false impression of academic merit, so you lazily throw out these ten dollar words as if I actually committed a logical fallacy. I did not insult you as a means to bolster any argument, so there was no fallacy committed; I just plain insulted you. 

 

 

The pictures you threw out there were all in your imagination, not mine so think about that for a minute.

 

14 minutes ago, NOTintoxicated said:

There's no point in arguing with somebody who refers to black people as "colored racists"

It's not just black people, and yes, colored people can be racist which is why we need to have this conversation.  See, you didn't even know that before.   Is my black friend who invited me to watch the movie with his black aquaintances racist?  Of course, not.  So it's not the entire colored community that needs to be cracked down on, but a good portion of it does.  And it pointless to listen to people talk about racism if they don't think it applies to their own race.

 

20 minutes ago, NOTintoxicated said:

while likening Marxism to Soviet gulags

We're talking about forced equity, pal.  It is diametrically opposed to equality, and class hatred is literally the ONLY idea in the 20th centurty to turn out more violent than Nazism.

[Axiomatic]

"Respect all races" is such a cop out solution, and wayy too simplistic to figure this out.

I have contemplated and tried to understand how to handle myself within these situations after having friends in different communities, and this is what it seems to come down to:

1. If you are white, you are probably going to offend or come off the wrong way to someone within the issue of racism (even another white person possibly). You can educate yourself on issues, try to apply the best methods to not be racist, and do your best to support causes. But despite this, your actions can still be misinterpreted as insensitive or even racist. This is because human beings aren't a monolith, and miscommunication or misunderstanding is a common thing. A white person could think that they know what it means to respect other races, and still have some kind of blind spot that they are unable to see.

Accept this as a white person. Accept that you may come off the wrong way, even if it isnt your intention. It is just apart of the system we are all currently stuck in. Even if you technically didn't do anything racist or insensitive, and they misunderstood you, you just gotta let it go.

2. Do your best to have good intentions. You won't be perfect as stated before, and people of other races may think of you as not good enough in their eyes in terms of "not being racist". But ya know what? As long as you have pure intentions, then you can let that shit go. Part of getting past white fragility is having empathy for people of other races, while at the same time not getting caught up with what every single non white person thinks of you. Not everyone is going to like you, and not everyone is going to approve of you being a good white person. All you can do is have pure intentions and be open to learning.

3. Try to see that when it comes down to it, we have more in common with each other than we realize. I know that these topics need awareness brought to them, but sometimes that just brings a negative energy. We are all living in this world, and we just gotta practice applying that golden rule. 

 

 

I notice little things all the time that apply to what I am saying. I am at university, and a black person in my class thinks that it is irresponsible of me to support a certain rapper. He thinks said rapper promotes ignorance, violence, materialism, and doesnt raise up the black community.

But my friend back home who is black, in a rougher neighborhood loves said rapper. He sees him as someone who was in his situation and made it out. And if I started to preach what my other black friend was saying from my university, then my friend from my neighborhood would see that as disrespectful to him and where he is from. To him this rapper is telling his story and demonstrating his struggle. So who am I to call that wrong? Who is the person at my university to call that wrong? As stated before, races are not monoliths. 

Edited March 23, 2021 by Axiomatic

[Preety_India]

This never happens. 

When white folks show their best intentions, try to apply the best methods to not be racist and do your best to support causes, you would most probably never appear racist. Racism is not an accident, or something that happens unintentionally with the person accused having had the best purest intentions and yet misunderstood because the agency of explanation is always available at hand, racism does not happen overnight, it's a mentality that grows over time, gets entrenched over time and then reaches a peak point during sensitive situations, if you analyze most claims of racism, they are genuine and the person accused of racism, if you looked into their history of behavior, you'll see evidence of hate towards other races and the need to provoke, an Escalation of their hateful mentality that finally finds an outlet. Racism doesn't happen in a day. Black people aren't sitting around waiting to accuse and lynch white people over nothing but pure intentions. Most people are highly aware of what racism looks like and so they are quite good at differentiating a genuinely racist individual from someone who accidentally happened to offend a non white person. 

Such justifications are just another part of white fragility, the need to protect the ego and the inability to accept  one's own ignorance and the unwillingness to change. 

People with good intentions can easily apologize. Or look for ways to mend things that will minimize racism, in reality this never happens, there's only denial and denial in different ways, but it's denial, a fundamental part of white fragility