Many Women Have It Worse Than Men (Attraction)

[RendHeaven]

I just recently had an experience where I was talking to this very smart and sweet (but physically unattractive) girl for hours, getting to know her as friends and just really opening up.

At the end of it all, she awkwardly blurts out that she likes me and that she wants to kiss. I immediately decline because she's simply not good looking.

It's been a few days but I've been thinking nonstop about how ruthless yet authentic my reaction was. There was no way in hell that I would consider her in a romantic/sexual light.

But why not?

It strikes me that her personality was perfectly fine. Nothing outstanding, but we shared many interests and she revealed herself to be a deep thinker (which I like in partners). So why was there no doubt in my mind that she's not a romantic/sexual option? 

Well, simply said, looks. They just weren't there. And hence, to the chopping block she goes. In fact, if you took that exact same soul and put it in a sexy face/body, I would of easily said yes.

That's so crazy to me. It's totally cutthroat and yet perfectly honest. In fact, if you asked me (or forced me) to change my preferences to accept this girl as a sexual prospect, THAT would actually be the inauthentic thing to do. If you critiqued me for being shallow or selfish, you'd be critiquing the most congruent aspect of me.

Well, given all this, what the hell was she supposed to do?

It fucks with me even more when I try to put myself in her shoes. She had absolutely no chance. It's actually unfair.

I'm sharing this experience because there seems to be this common misconception that women by virtue of being pretty and having boobies don't even think twice about attracting a guy.

This creates a false dichotomy of "men are the ones that care about attraction, women care more about the non-attraction aspects of dating like depth of connection."

In fact, many men here seem to think that MEN are the ones that have it worse in terms of attraction. 

Really?

It strikes me that as a man, you can always develop your humor, confidence, etc. and make a woman sexually fall for you. Looks matter somewhat, but they are never primary.

As a woman, if you don't got the looks, it's all out of your control. Maybe some guy will sexually settle for you, but you don't get to be a chooser when that guy you really like is hanging out with you. Damn.

At least, this is my current impression based on this recent experience.

Also, I admit that I am assuming that other guys operate the way I do (which may or may not be the case).

I'm really interested in hearing your thoughts.

[Username]

Why do you think that she isn't good looking?

[The0Self]

They both have their pros and cons. The main thing preventing most women from attracting men is ignorance (and possibly laziness) though. If a woman is unattractive, she can make herself attractive -- well beyond the lowest standards of many above average men. All it takes is lots of protein + lots of heavy barbell training, and more satiating foods and diet techniques (like intermittent fasting and mindfulness of hunger) if they're overweight -- no matter how unattractive their face is, this intervention can cause their body to be so brutally attractive it won't even matter.

[JosephKnecht]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If you don't find her attractive, someone else might. 

These days we have many technologies (make-up, plastic surgeries, etc) so if she truly desires, she can improve her looks. 

[Karmadhi]

This thread has some truth however there are a lot of things which you are ignoring like:

1. Most girls are unattractive due to pure laziness. If a girl takes care of herself properly she will be attractive enough. Worst case, she can do some surgery which these days has become totally normal and acceptable.

2. Guys also have subjective taste when it comes to girls, just because you are not attracted to her does not mean no one ever will.

3. Girl feminine behavior is the equivalent of confidence to a guy.  It can make her HIGHLY attractive as long as she is not legit ugly in your eyes. Was the girl you were talking with highly feminine? The most successful girls i have ever seen in my life were not the hottest but the most feminine ones. 

4. If a guy is legit ugly in the eyes of the girl he also has no chance with her. Game will work if you are okay or meh in her eyes but not if she sees you as a 2/10. That is why most guys talk to a lot of girls and then filter out those they have a chance with.

5. Most guys have very low, MUCH lower standards than most girls. An average girl is usually pickier than the average guy due to simple biology and therefore if she wants the average girl will get something. The ugly girl can do the things i listed above to become at least average. 

Now also guys can improve their attractive stuff but it usually involves changing the core of your personality compared to just being fit and pretty like girls do.

I am in really good shape and am trying to become more funny and less logical and confident and it is unbelievably hard compared to just going to the gym and eating well. So do not worry about girls much. We all struggle in the end, some more some less who cares.

 

[Parththakkar12]

If you're a deep thinker, you will struggle. The surface-level world will simply not excite you. Always remember that social norms and social rules are not designed by high-consciousness people in order to be able to create connected and meaningful relationships, they are designed for the dumbest, most simple-minded, lowest-consciousness person to fit in and be able to function.

If you are a unique and interesting person, you may think that this is a good thing, that you'll be very attractive in general. Most people believe this. This is not true at all. Even if you will be, big deal. You really won't care for most people. If you want to be attractive to most men, you need to have a certain look. The key, though, is that you don't have to be attractive to most men. You just have to be attractive to one, the right one. You're not trying to break into the film-industry or modelling or something, you're trying to date! If you're trying to get into those professional fields, yeah, you do need to fit some social norms of attractiveness. Not when you're dating.

[aurum]

@RendHeaven

I wouldn't say women have it across the board worse. There's just pros and cons when it comes to dating for both genders.

That said, I think your post highlights a real insight, which is just how physical male attraction can be.

Women are attracted far beyond the physical when it comes to men. Your personality / life situation does probably 90% of the leg work, which is nice because it can be developed and actually improve over time.

But as a guy, I don't need a woman to have a specific kind of personality or life situation to be physically attracted to her. I just need to know what she looks like and I can tell you.

Now, that does not mean she's a girl you'd want to date. It doesn't even mean you would necessarily try and have sex with her. There are plenty of other factors that come into to play, especially if you're considering a relationship with a girl.

But I would agree that the initial filter for guys is looks. If she doesn't pass that, don't expect things to go much further. And I do believe this is part of the reason women are much more concerned with how they look than men. It's far more important to their sexual strategy.

Looks also can create a halo effect for men. If she's good looking, you're much more likely to rationalize "good" personal qualities about her. Whereas for a girl who was less good looking, you wouldn't notice or maybe even care about those qualities at all.

Is this all really shallow and depressing? Maybe. I'm not looking to make a moral argument here, I'm pointing out observations I've made.

Maybe there is a reality where we are all so higher consciousness that we transcend all of this. Men don't care about looks any more and women don't care about men who can provide and protect her. But regardless, it starts with becoming aware of what patterns we are in.

Edited March 17, 2021 by aurum

[RendHeaven]

2 hours ago, JosephKnecht said:

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If you don't find her attractive, someone else might. 

These days we have many technologies (make-up, plastic surgeries, etc) so if she truly desires, she can improve her looks. 

I agree (somewhat).

Although, as subjective as the details of beauty are, there are cross-cultural standards (such as facial proportionality) that people overwhelmingly prefer.

Given the free choice between droopy uneven eyes and symmetrical well-shaped eyes, I can't think of anybody who would eagerly prefer the former (in themselves or their partners).

2 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

2. Guys also have subjective taste when it comes to girls, just because you are not attracted to her does not mean no one ever will.

1 hour ago, Parththakkar12 said:

The key, though, is that you don't have to be attractive to most men. You just have to be attractive to one, the right one.

No, you guys don't get it.

She wanted ME. Straight up. She had romantic and sexual feelings for me, and she had no chance.

Am I the only one who sees how fucked up that is?

Obviously someone will like her eventually. But that doesn't change the disadvantage she has in the "sexual marketplace" when SHE actually has a desired outcome.

Edited March 17, 2021 by RendHeaven

[RendHeaven]

4 minutes ago, aurum said:

Is this all really shallow and depressing? Maybe. I'm not looking to make a moral argument here, I'm pointing out observations I've made.

Maybe there is a reality where we are all so higher consciousness that we transcend all of this. Men don't care about looks any more and women don't care about men who can provide and protect her. But regardless, it's starts with becoming aware of what patterns we are in.

10000% agree.

I don't see myself or others "transcending" this anytime soon.

Even Leo who has gone beyond physical death and back has firm preferences in regards to female looks.

Nonetheless, there is a value in just basking in the baffling way our biases work...

[Karmadhi]

@RendHeaven And this does not happen for guys lol? A LOT of  girls you like will not like you back simply due to physical reasons. Why do you think Leo and most PUAs promote to approach 20 girls per night? Because at least half of those will be blown up by you not being her type.

If a girl finds you a 2/10 she will not date you regardless of what you do.

These things happen to both genders tbh

Edited March 17, 2021 by Karmadhi

[RendHeaven]

6 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

@RendHeaven And this does not happen for guys lol? A LOT of  girls you like will not like you back simply due to physical reasons. Why do you think Leo and most PUAs promote to approach 20 girls per night? Because at least half of those will be blown up by you not being her type.

If a girl finds you a 2/10 she will not date you regardless of what you do.

These things happen to both genders tbh

It's absolutely not the same.

If you've got game, she's very likely to spread her legs for you.

As @aurum said, women are a lot more willing to look past physicality.

Leo and most PUAs approach a million girls a night because their game sucks at first. They have to warm up to get their confidence + authenticity rolling. It has nothing to do with looks LMAO.

Edited March 17, 2021 by RendHeaven

[Karmadhi]

@RendHeaven The best PUAs in the world still get rejected. Of course game can help you a lot but i am not talking if she finds you ok looking. If she finds you a 2/10 then i doubt game will help you, even if it does it is game at a level that 99 percent of people do not have. Russell Brand kind of game.

There is nothing wrong with it, just talk to a lot of girls, at least half of them will find you at least  ok/meh looking and you can get those with game. A few will find you legit attractive and with those you need basic game but those are a bit rare to count on.

Same logic for everyone tbh, its all a numbers game

Edited March 17, 2021 by Karmadhi

[Byun Sean]

guys have different preferences so she could be very attractive to someone else.

 

On top of that physical health matters more than personality for attracting a guy simply because of reproductive value.

 

Dating is survival. it's a negotiation of value between people that is very conditional. Thats the way it is and always has been.

 

Your just going to have to accept the fact that no matter how good your personality may get or looks may get, there are some women who you will just

never be able to date simply because your not their type or whatever and vice versa.

 

And it's better for you that way. If all guys had the exact same taste in women the species would be extinct in no time because all the men would be

after the "top" attractive females all the time. But it's not like that because attraction is way more deep and complex than that. 

 

No one has to give you access to their genitals if they meet a certain criteria in your head and neither do you have to. This is a made up set of 

rules spun by your ego.

 

 

 

 

 

[RendHeaven]

@Karmadhi No, you still don't understand.

You keep saying "if she finds you a 2/10"

That's NOT something women do, dude. Ranking looks is overwhelmingly a guy-thing.

You know, that's the whole point of me opening this thread.

A girl will rank the totality of your sexual worth by incorporating your charisma/confidence/humor/personality/comfort elements. All of it.

If a woman finds you to be a 2/10, it's because you suck as a man, not because of your face.

If you think that you are a 2/10 in looks, and you get rejected by a woman, you will tell yourself: "see! it's because I'm a 2/10 in looks!"

Wrong. It's because you act like a fucking loser who believes himself to be a 2/10.

I know ugly mfs that act like they own the world and they get far more hot girls than everyone on this forum combined. 

[RendHeaven]

9 minutes ago, Byun Sean said:

Your just going to have to accept the fact that no matter how good your personality may get or looks may get, there are some women who you will just

never be able to date simply because your not their type or whatever and vice versa.

Obviously.

But notice that men are able to increase their "batting average" with women by working on themselves as men.

For a woman to increase their "batting average" with men, they have to either apply makeup, or get surgery. Maybe even both.

Isn't that a stunning difference?

Edited March 17, 2021 by RendHeaven

[Karmadhi]

@RendHeaven Well i also know average looking girls with feminine behavior that get more guys than almost all hotties. You are making it seem like guy=personality and girl=looks. There is some truth to that but it is not so binary. Personality and looks matter for both genders, the only question is how much.

Personality matters for girls too and if you interact with enough girls you will easily see that sometimes the girls with most guys crushing on them are not the hottest ones always.

A hot girl will just get guys wanting to pump and dump her which is not what she wants. A feminine girl will get guys crushing and wanting to be with her which is what she actually wants.

Do not confuse good/cool girl with feminine girl. Feminine girl is pure feminine energy and that is insanely attractive just like pure masculine energy is attractive to girls.

Edited March 17, 2021 by Karmadhi

[Byun Sean]

3 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

Obviously.

But notice that men are able to increase their "batting average" with women by working on themselves as men.

For a woman to increase their "batting average" with men, they have to either apply makeup, or get surgery. Maybe even both.

Isn't that a stunning difference?

 

It's not all looks for men.

There is plenty a woman can do. Your just looking at the surface.

 

More developed men won't settle for a woman purely based on looks. The woman will have to be conscious to an extent and have value in other areas

of her life if she wants a shot at attracting a top quality man.

[RendHeaven]

1 minute ago, Karmadhi said:

Well i also know average looking girls with feminine behavior that get more guys than almost all hotties.

LOL I'm smelling some CAP.

These hypothetical "hotties" you're talking about, if they're really as physically attractive as you suggest, have dozens if not hundreds of thirsty DMs from guys. You just don't see it.

But that doesn't even matter because getting more sexual partners is actually a male metric. Getting more sexual partners is NOT a female metric.

A woman generally tends to just want one superman to swoop her off her feet. Having a hoard of thirsty d00ds at her doorstep is meaningless to her. So your "average looking girl with feminine behavior" is not actually winning.

Consider this: the "average looking" girl and the superhottie both meet me and decide that they have romantic/sexual desires for me.

At face value, I'm choosing the superhottie. What do you suggest the average looking girl does in this situation? Her options are slim. I don't care have feminine she acts. The hot one is hot.

Now notice the same scenario but swap the genders. 2 dudes are courting the same girl. Let's say one dude has vastly better looks than the other. Well, believe it or not, the uglier guy actually has quite a lot of options! By being just a little bit funnier, just a little bit freer, just a little bit more authentic and challenging and non-needy, the "ugly" guy can actually land the girl. This is the case.

Do you see this difference?

[RendHeaven]

5 minutes ago, Byun Sean said:

More developed men won't settle for a woman purely based on looks.

I agree. Notice that I'm not talking about long term relationships here.

God, I would never get into a committed relationship based only on looks lol.

I am, however, talking about raw attraction.

That split second subconscious decision where I either distinguish her as either "potentially sexual" or "non-sexual"

[Karmadhi]

@RendHeaven You have a very simple view of how attraction works for guys. Just like most bros and PUAS do. I personally know plenty of guys that would date an okay looking girl if her personality was great. The hot girl will just get guys wanting to fuck her, nothing more. The feminine girl will get guys wanting to be with her. That is what she wants, not just pump and dump.