Many Women Have It Worse Than Men (Attraction)

[Byun Sean]

2 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

 

That split second subconscious decision where I either distinguish her as either "potentially sexual" or "non-sexual"

True if you never speak with her or hear her speak then yeah only looks will matter in that decision.

But there is still a lot a girl can do with her femininity to make you wet as a guy.

 

I've had instances where I see a girl and I'm like "eh she's kind of cute but whatever." But then I talk to her and I get really attracted

because of her feminine vibe. Don't underestimate the feminine vibe if your a girl and the masculine one especially if your a guy. You 

can work magic as far as attraction goes with it.

It's like what all of us are subconsciously gauging that make us realize who has the strongest spirit.

 

 

[Emerald]

2 hours ago, RendHeaven said:

@Karmadhi No, you still don't understand.

You keep saying "if she finds you a 2/10"

That's NOT something women do, dude. Ranking looks is overwhelmingly a guy-thing.

You know, that's the whole point of me opening this thread.

A girl will rank the totality of your sexual worth by incorporating your charisma/confidence/humor/personality/comfort elements. All of it.

If a woman finds you to be a 2/10, it's because you suck as a man, not because of your face.

If you think that you are a 2/10 in looks, and you get rejected by a woman, you will tell yourself: "see! it's because I'm a 2/10 in looks!"

Wrong. It's because you act like a fucking loser who believes himself to be a 2/10.

I know ugly mfs that act like they own the world and they get far more hot girls than everyone on this forum combined. 

There is a bar there too. 

I'm probably about a 6 in the looks department. And my subconscious would auto-filter a guy who's 4 and under. And that's true even if he had the best personality and the most charisma.

When attractions have happened to me in the past, it's almost always to men who are about my looks-match.

And it's never towards men that are visibly unattractive to me upon first meeting. I know right away who I'll never be attracted to in the same way that you know it about the woman you turned down.

When I do end up with an attraction, it's usually towards men who I see as average or slightly above average upon first meeting where the feelings for them end up growing over time.

Now, it's true that looks isn't the number one factor that attracts me. That is a genuine divergence between female sexuality and male sexuality. Looks is one factor among many that make up the whole of a person. So, I'm always attracted to a man as more than the sum of his parts.

If a man is a 10 in the looks department, chances are he won't do very much for me because my attractions are so pointed and particular towards one guy that I've been struck by the Cupid's Arrow for.

But if you put a 10 next to a 5, the chances are far greater that I will become attracted to the 5. Though the odds are still slim for me to develop an attraction towards either because Cupid's Arrows don't strike often.

But I'm also very aware that men who are my looks-match or slightly below will appreciate my looks more, and that would make me feel attractive and desirable. Whereas, if I were out on a date with Brad Pitt or Timothy Chalamet or something, I'd be super turned off because they're significantly more attractive than me and wouldn't see me as a catch. 

But it would just be untrue to say that women don't have a looks filter. It's there. It just doesn't get so much focus.

Also, don't feel bad about rejecting people you're not attracted to. No one's entitled to your sexual interest. You may not be used to rejecting women because men do most of the approaching. But if you were a woman, you'd have to reject people all the time based on many reasons... looks being one of them. It's all just part of it. 

[Chew211]

@RendHeaven

I sorry to feel that a lot of guys don't get it.

I've felt that cut-throatedness many times... pretty much every time. It's always there, whether I "succeed" or "fail" with a chick. 

The thing is, out of all the chicks I've been with, and one's I'm with now, I'd do the didily with them and enjoy hanging out with them, but they don't have a chance when it comes to a committed relationship with me. 

I do my best to get whoever I'm with that I'm not going to give commitment nor expect commitment on their part. 

I've felt the other side of the cut-throatedness back when I would be enamoured with someone-- like I was preparing for a committed relationship if it came to that-- and every time it was like that, I failed. 

I'm on a tightrope. 

If I like her too much, I lose/fail with her. 

If she like me too much, I want to break things off. 

 

It's not really a problem unless viewed from the lens of mainstream romance/ views on relationships though. 

 

[PureRogueQ]

Woman have it worse because of your 1 interaction, k , I get you..

I mean there are counter evidence to show contrary, it should be clear as day and night.

Maybe if we are talking about teens who have hierarchy and will not look at other woman simply because she is not cool , or whatever else they are afraid of, but even there I would say it is probably in favour of woman. 

 

Edited March 18, 2021 by PureRogueQ

[Chew211]

@PureRogueQ

OP is saying that women have it more difficult because men can become more attractive by developing themselves, whereas women primarily only have looks going for them when it comes to attraction.

His one experience was sufficient enough for him to have that epiphany. 

[Eternity]

@RendHeaven   ok, dude.  I'm female (don't assume that women never look at this forum) and I'm here to tell you that women are at firs glance attracted to looks.  However, we are not as testosterone driven sexually as men, so we can put that on the back burner for a while as we analyze (and we do analyze any guy we are interested in and pick him apart with our gfs) the protential you each have for a long term relationship and supporting a child. After all mother nature gave us the care of offspring which is a full time job believe me.  So we weigh that kind of thing while you all are mostly only thinking of the very near future and how to get the female into bed with you.  Only if and I do mean if you have huge game will she maaaayyybe look past your appearance.  I mean for example, the front man for Radiohead who sang "Creep" and had red or blonde hair with a drooping eyelid on one side, for me anyway, was hot.  I do not ordinarily like redheads at all.  But that guy sang a song that just hit me in the solar plexus and a lot of other girls at the time thought he was hot.  So there are exceptions, but mostly the rule is with every female I know, if you are a  2/10 in the looks department you won't have a huge chance of getting more than average looks in your dating stable.  I'm sorry, but all of us are wired the way we are wired.  If you are not a girl's type, then you're not.  Men can also up their game with plastic surgery btw.  I've had a few, 3 I think, nips and tucks.  My figure has been curvy in all the right places since puberty and I worked out regularly prior to an injury, but I wasn't happy with my facial profile or heavy eyelids, so I had those changed.  No big deal and didn't cost a lot.  But I'm happy with myself.

As far as the crush girl who likes you, you can't help that she's not your type.  Why you feel nothing for her, no pull at all, is not your fault.  We have certain things that our brains are programmed to like and things we are programmed not to like.  This girl doesn't have much game or she would not ever have flat out said she wanted a kiss and that may have been the final blow to any little bit of attraction you possibly had.  After all, she hasn't figured out yet that no one wants to date a loser.  So before she brings it up with you again, tell her kindly something such as "You know why I like you?  Because you feel like a sister to me," or something similar and emphasize  sister a few times over again.  Call her "little sis" maybe if she keeps hanging on.  Don't encourage her by talking to her for hours on the phone.  Don't call her and if she calls you, just keep it short. The message is, you most likely have no desire to kiss your sister and have no desire to do it with this girl.  She may suddenly ghost out of your life which is expected or she might hold up false hope until it finally sinks in.  But that is probably the kindest thing you can do.  She'll get the idea one day and she'll probably learn to fix herself up more, but it is a valuable lesson for her because otherwise how would she learn to go to a little trouble and up her chances with another guy who might be "the one" for her. The lessons learned through hard circumstances are the best ones you will ever learn.  You are a lesson for her and a valuable one at that.

[Parththakkar12]

9 hours ago, RendHeaven said:

No, you guys don't get it.

She wanted ME. Straight up. She had romantic and sexual feelings for me, and she had no chance.

Am I the only one who sees how fucked up that is?

Obviously someone will like her eventually. But that doesn't change the disadvantage she has in the "sexual marketplace" when SHE actually has a desired outcome.

What she needs to do is she needs to heal her wounds of rejection, her shame around not being attractive to men she wants. This will drive her more in a direction where she learns how to be more attractive to men in general and she heals herself out of her attraction to the wrong guys (no offense, I'm calling you a 'wrong guy' here simply because you weren't into her).

She sounded like someone caught in an avoidant/anxious relationship-dynamic, where you're the avoidant one, she's the anxious one. If you're in the shoes of the anxious one, you'll feel rejected and if you're in the shoes of the avoidant one, you'll feel like the other person is being too desperate/needy/clingy. To me, it looks like this is what happened with the two of you. She's going to have to really look into this before she even gets into dating!

As far as her 'being disadvantaged' goes, this can absolutely be changed. What I've noticed very closely is that my attraction to a woman's body has more to do with how she presents herself than the particulars of her body itself. For example, if a woman is fat, but she wears tight-fitted clothing that shows her cleavage or something, or a nice dress, I'm going to be attracted to that! She's drawing me in deliberately by the way she presents herself. But, if a woman who's thin and has a perfect figure wears low-quality loose clothes (maybe to hide her figure because she's insecure about it), I'm going to feel nothing about her otherwise 'perfect body'. The point being, women have a lot more power when it comes to attracting men than we think, or than they even know of in general!

Yeah sure, men like to look at a certain kind of body in magazines, in fashion-shows, in beauty-contests, in movies, on Instagram/social media, even in porn. This can make women feel very insecure about their body when it doesn't match those qualities. But, if you notice very closely, because their profession involves being attractive to men, (all men, not just one guy, not just the one guy you want in your life) they put a disproportionate amount of effort in how they present themselves and how they look. This is what actually draws men in! This is the value those industries create for men. Put the same sexy-looking woman in baggy clothes with no make-up and nobody will even look at her. The point being, in real life, a woman with any kind of body can attract any man. (who isn't objectifying her or who isn't conditioned into only wanting a specific kind of body, but, would you want to be with such a guy anyways? Even if you had his kind of body?)

Now yeah, individual men will have certain preferences in bodies when it comes to actually dating and having sex, so you're going to have to go for a guy who's into you. But, you can still be attractive to a man who isn't necessarily into your kind of body! He just won't go for it with you because he isn't into your body, but it won't be that he won't even consider it! All men are horny, let's face facts. Especially if you flaunt the body-part that the specific guy is into, say wearing yoga-pants to show your ass, he's going to be attracted to that! No matter whether it's 'too small' or 'too big'. None of that actually matters. That's what women probably tell each other, that's female conditioning.

Edited March 18, 2021 by Parththakkar12

[Jacob Morres]

Yeah i thought about this before too.. if the adage is true and men really are that cut throat about looks, it's definitely unfortunate that it may be more difficult for some girls. 

but at the same time, i think beauty do be in the eye of the beholder sometimes, and also i've definitely personally seen some mismatches in physical attractiveness happen 

but as a dude that isn't secure in himself i can tell you that dating is hard as fuck lol and i have to say that i've personally been through some of the struggles and it's not easy at all. the silver lining is that we do have a lot we can work on 

also there is the point that you dont even need the world attracted to you right? like you just need one SO that meets your criteria. it's chill if the rest are not okay with you,  but i think if you non-needy patient and trusting, you will find the right person. 

me personally, i dont think i'm that cut throat about looks. i personally prefer personality 80% and looks 20% but i do have a minimum need for physical attraction though . ive seen the fulfillment that comes with personality and that honestly is 10x better than looks any day. 

i definietely need to contemplate this more though 

Edited March 18, 2021 by Jacob Morres

[Peter Miklis]

The only reason you rejected her is because you are used to fucking hot girls. So yes, dude, you ARE shallow, lol. Your pride didn't let you be with her.

Uglier girls can be good tool for gaining experience, so you actually shot yourself in the foot.

Of course, if you are only looking for relationships, that's another thing, but you could've just fucked her and gain experience? just sayin'

[Peter Miklis]

@Eternity finally a woman who knows what's up lol. Women are primarily attracted to looks.

[intotheblack]

If you're talking about first glance attraction.. looks do matter to women.  if a woman thinks a guy is ok looking but not sure about him, she will even discuss with their friends whether they find the guy attractive or not..  all it takes is for 1 friend to say ''hmm i don't like the look of him'' and that could make her change her mind, i've seen that happen before.  girls don't want to be seen with a less attractive guy.  they want to know that other girls think the guy they are dating is good looking.  surface level speaking.

attraction is very particular, what one girl likes in a guy another one won't.  Same for both sexes.  the fact that you didnt want to kiss that particular girl is no big deal.  she had a moment of attraction to you for whatever reason.  you rejected her for not suiting your particular taste, people get rejected all the time for this.  i have rejected guys because they werent good looking to me, even though we got along well.  Even if a guy had good "game" but was ugly in my eyes, i would still reject him because i wouldn't want to make out with someone who i didn't find attractive.

If there was 1 hot girl with model looks, who is clearly beautfiul.. then on the other hand you have a girl who is pretty, maybe more alternative and with her own style, but not the perfect looking instagram girl.  maybe you would choose the more societally attractive one.  but alot of people would choose the alternavitve girl depending on their personal preferences. and vice versa.

Times when looks may not matter so much to a girl is when you already know eachother and something has been building for some time between you then she might start to find you more attractive.  for example some time ago a friend got in a new relationship wth a guy she had known for years, when i asked her to show me a picture of him she was like " he's not the most attractive, but we know eachother so well"  basically warning me incase i judged him for being ugly.  they ended up getting married and having kids. But that concern about him not being attractive was still there.

But if a girl were looking at first glance without knowing you or having spoken to you then you probably would'nt get a second look if you werent attractive to her specifically. 

another time when looks may not matter is if gals are drunk they may let their attraction standards slip.  same goes for guys.  if you were drunk you probs would have made out with that girl.

it's not just women who work on their appearance, men also can. But its true that men arent judged as much by society as a whole on how they look, the way women are.

take a man whos out of shape, unkempt, has no personal style and crooked teeth... get him working out, give him a great haircut, get him taking care of his skin, give him a new wardrobe and braces and he will be upgraded.  he may have personality issues to work on but upgrading his look will get him further than if he hadn't upgraded it.

Not only men can work on their inner selves to have a more attractive energy..  women also work on their personalities and issues.  which is why you often hear about a girl being really pretty but they ended up being crazy.  or a guy who was really good looking but had a shitty personality.  they had the looks surface level but nothing deeper going on.

maybe the girl who doesnt care about makeup, likes wearing loose fitting clothes, who doesn't care about trying to attract guys, is working on herself and doing her own thing, will be invisible to surface level men as shes not seen as hot and sexy in the eyes of instagram and mainstream attraction.  but will that girl anyway be interested in those type of guys? hell no. 

there is too many deep levels to this, but most people are operating purely on surface levels.  Women get more heavily judged by society for their looks though which is no secret. 

actually, women are many times the ones judging other women for how they look. 

women feel forced to look better by society as a whole, not soley for the purpose of attracting men.  They want to be more beautiful so that everyone likes them, not because they want lots of men flocking to them. But to fit in to what society wants.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 18, 2021 by intotheblack

[Lyubov]

2 hours ago, Peter Miklis said:

@Eternity finally a woman who knows what's up lol. Women are primarily attracted to looks.

I've seen and experienced time and time again that looks for a man really don't matter all that much. If you look physically average and take care of yourself, barber, good clothes, posture, body language, etc and present yourself in a nice way you have a decent chance finding a girl you fancy, even ones that you may consider more attractive than the man. This excludes online dating which is different from in person. 

Edited March 18, 2021 by Lyubov

[RendHeaven]

10 hours ago, PureRogueQ said:

Woman have it worse because of your 1 interaction, k , I get you.

Who said this only happened once?

10 hours ago, Chew211 said:

I sorry to feel that a lot of guys don't get it.

my man, lol.

12 hours ago, Emerald said:

But if you put a 10 next to a 5, the chances are far greater that I will become attracted to the 5. Though the odds are still slim for me to develop an attraction towards either because Cupid's Arrows don't strike often.

But I'm also very aware that men who are my looks-match or slightly below will appreciate my looks more, and that would make me feel attractive and desirable. Whereas, if I were out on a date with Brad Pitt or Timothy Chalamet or something, I'd be super turned off because they're significantly more attractive than me and wouldn't see me as a catch. 

Right!

Forgive me for suggesting that a beastly 2/10-looker had a chance at attracting you, haha

But I appreciate your authenticity here. This mindset is so foreign to me.

If she's a 10/10 looker, I'm attracted. No negotiation. It's kinda scary.

As such, I'm inclined to attribute this attraction difference to gender (as a rough generalization).

OBVIOUSLY there are exceptions to the "rule," but isn't there a trend here that we can notice?

5 hours ago, Peter Miklis said:

Women are primarily attracted to looks.

Sigh. Not dealing with this, dude.

Obviously looks have *some* impact. The girl has eyes.

BUT as a male, your looks ARE NOT THE PRIMARY CRITERIA. Period.

6 hours ago, Peter Miklis said:

So yes, dude, you ARE shallow, lol. Your pride didn't let you be with her.

I don't doubt that.

I'm just noticing that this is the way things are.

Hence, it seems to me that less physically attractive girls have fewer options than similarly struggling guys at attracting the partners they desire.

[RendHeaven]

42 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

BUT as a male, your looks ARE NOT THE PRIMARY CRITERIA. Period.

6 hours ago, Peter Miklis said:

I had a good friend in HS who had 10/10 face and body. Like seriously godly genetics. It was actually unfair. He looked just like Vshred (side note: Vshred is a fitness scam, don't listen to him! ).

Despite this, I think he only got with 1-2 mediocre girls throughout his whole HS career (they barely lasted a few weeks). Totally carried by his looks.

I remember speaking to some girls about their opinion of him, and they all saw him like a little puppy dog. He was socially awkward, constantly fidgety and stuttered, never held eye contact, said weird things in forced ways, constantly tried to prove his worth by bragging, etc. His game was literally negative. He totally sucked as a man, and consequently all of the girls looked straight past him. I kept hearing things like "Oh god he would be so hot if he actually got a personality."

Meanwhile, all of the girls would be fetishizing these other guys who had maybe 6/10 in looks but had tons of humor, confidence, social clout, a string of ex girlfriends, etc.

I knew a guy who had droopy eyes and a gigantic bulging black mole on the side of his nose (so he was distinctly asymmetrical lol). He looked like a 4 to me, honestly. Maybe less. But he was the social "leader" of everyone around him, always the loudest, acted like he owned the very space everyone occupied. He could say one word and make everyone laugh. He also had a hot girlfriend + they lasted years.

That was really eye opening for me.

Edited March 18, 2021 by RendHeaven

[Peter Miklis]

@RendHeaven I'm kinda tired of constantly debunking the same arguments when it comes to this topic. Oh well, I'm gonna do it anyway.

Yes, your friends game sucked, that's how he lost his gfs. No shit. I never said looks are the only thing that matters. I just said they matter the most.

The fact that he had negative game and still pulled 2 women should really tell you something. No?

Looks basically give you 1 main perk: the better you look, the less you have to try. The worse you look, the more work is required. This doesn't apply always, but mostly.

If you don't meet the minimum looks criteria (as it was said by probably the only honest women here@Eternity ), it's over. It doesn't matter what you do.

No ammount of game will save a guy who is bellow average. Having badboy game doesn't neccessarily mean soaked panties. Looks hovewer, do the job, given that your personality is not shit and you have some minimal social skills.

 

Edited March 18, 2021 by Peter Miklis

[RendHeaven]

@Peter Miklis You haven't "debunked" anything lol

7 minutes ago, Peter Miklis said:

The fact that he had negative game and still pulled 2 women should really tell you something. No?

It tells me that looks matter somewhat, but that they are not primary. Exactly as I claim.

7 minutes ago, Peter Miklis said:

Looks basically give you 1 main perk: the better you look, the less you have to try. The worse you look, the more work is required. This doesn't apply always, but mostly.

This is true. But the hardworking ugly guy outperforms the good-looking lazy guy EVERY SINGLE TIME. This is what you're not accepting.

That's the whole point of this thread. Men get this ridiculous attraction advantage. The same can't be said for women. Why the hell do we men complain so much? We have such an advantage. We get the privilege to work on our personalities, and that directly influences our ability to get with the women of our choice. 

How crazy is that?

7 minutes ago, Peter Miklis said:

No ammount of game will save a guy who is bellow average. Having badboy game doesn't neccessarily mean soaked panties.

Wrong. Re-read my story above. I have direct experience to the contrary. I go out more than you do.

Edited March 18, 2021 by RendHeaven

[Peter Miklis]

@RendHeaven if applying game worked for uglier guys, brilliant, good for them. I'm happy for them.

[Emerald]

7 hours ago, Peter Miklis said:

@Eternity finally a woman who knows what's up lol. Women are primarily attracted to looks.

Women aren’t primarily attracted to looks. And that wasn’t even what she said.

Women are attracted to the whole package. But looks can be a dealbreaker. 

Men can up their attractiveness by two points by developing his personality... and down their attractiveness by two points if he has an underdeveloped personality.

But a female 10 probably isn’t going to go for a male 2. But she might go for a 7 or 8. 

A female 5 probably isn’t going to go for a male 1. But she might go for a 3 or 4.

So, men do have a lot more control over how attractive they are compared to women.

That said, it isn’t true that looks are irrelevant to women’s choice in partner. Most women will seek their looks-match.

Edited March 18, 2021 by Emerald

[Emerald]

36 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

This is true. But the hardworking ugly guy outperforms the good-looking lazy guy EVERY SINGLE TIME. 

That’s not true. If a guy is really “ugly”, he’s going to hit a barrier if he’s trying to attract a woman who’s more than a couple point ahead of him in physical attractiveness.

but you could replace the word “ugly” with “average” and that would be mostly correct.

[Peter Miklis]

@Emerald you basically repeated my points. Looksmatch, personality, minimum looks criteria. So we agree lol

 

Edited March 18, 2021 by Peter Miklis