Trying to wrap my mind around this

[CultivateLove]

A short backstory. A few months ago I got approached by some Mormon girls on the street, and we ended up having about an hour long discussion about God, Religion, Life etc. Ever since then we've been meeting up and talking for about 45-60 minutes once or twice a week. I have mixed feelings because on one hand I find these talks to be genuinely enjoyable and insightful (Doesn't hurt that they're both sweet and pretty, either), but on the other hand, their stage blue ideological thinking, and sometimes bordering on preaching, is starting to test my patience a bit. The main example is them trying to get me to start praying to God more, SPECIFICALLY out loud, because "it's worked for them, and it says in the Book of Mormon that God is BOUND to a promise to answer your prayers if you do).

Now, I didn't have anything against doing that before at all, I probably would have done it at some point in my life without any outside influence pushing me, but their insistence has only really made me want to do it less. One time during our talks, we were talking about what connects us as people, and what differentiates us, i.e. how much alike we are, yet how different we can be at the same time, and they suggested maybe I could ask God about it, so I was like fuck it, sure. So I prayed out loud, and genuinely asked God "Dear God, I never really ask you for anything, but now I am. If you could help me understand better how we are similar, and how we are different, so I can better help people in the future, I would REALLY appreciate it! Amen" (Something like that)

And holy damn, my last 2 weeks have been FULL of insights about exactly this, a few of them have been huge, and I'm sure they will be super happy to hear about this. But I don't really want to tell them to be honest, because they were too pushy, and I don't want to reward that pushy-ness, because then they're going to take that as a sign that what they are doing is "the right thing" and will CONTINUE to push prayer and other things upon people because it showed real results. Hell, a part of me STILL doesn't want to pray out loud to God because it feels... forced.

After some reflection, I see this in my past, and I see it in other people. For example, a close friend of mine has always had a bad impression of Yoga, meanwhile I'm a Yoga enthusiast. One day I asked him what his actual experience with Yoga was, and turns out it was at some class in a Fitness Center (which is the LAST place you'll find actual Yoga), I explained to him that he hasn't actually done Yoga, any more than eating at Taco Bell counts as trying Mexican food. That the Yoga he went to is just a cheap, western bastardization of actual Yoga. This analogy was good enough to open his mind up to trying Yoga again, but not anytime soon, because he kind of feels forced to do it, instead of it coming naturally.

Probably the best example of this phenonema I can think of is with girls, if you push just a LITTLE bit too hard sexually, it will turn her off like a bucket of cold water, EVEN IF she had some attraction towards you beforehand. 

I guess what I'm trying to understand is the underlying mechanics behind this whole thing and how to get around it? Is there a better way to convince someone that something is good for them without being seen as preachy, other than "being a good example"?

[Mason Riggle]

You can't force a plant to grow a flower.. 

You plant a seed, nurture it, be patient, and if the conditions are right, it will eventually blossom. 

--------------------------------------------------

The 'praying out loud' sounds like 'law of attraction'..  It's nearly impossible to get to where you want to be if you don't know where you want to be. 

“And, when you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it.” - Paulo Coelho

[Leo Gura]

#1: Stop trying to control people. Period.

#2: Stop communicating with closedminded fools, as if you can reach them.

#3: Focus on your LP.

[Mason Riggle]

 

[CultivateLove]

17 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said:

You can't force a plant to grow a flower.. 

You plant a seed, nurture it, be patient, and if the conditions are right, it will eventually blossom. 

I get that, but I only see two ways of planting that seed. Either directly (which can easily make the person feel forced) or subtly (which can easily be perceived as manipulative and therefore also doesn't work).

Obviously forcing someone to do something NEVER works well (if their best interest is in mind, that is), but that's not my issue. They never FORCED me to pray, but their insistence made me FEEL like IF I prayed, I would have to force it, instead of it being authentic. Same with my friend and Yoga, I never FORCED him to do anything, I merely suggested that the Yoga he tried was a steaming pile of sh*t and not actual Yoga, therefor it was no surprise it didn't do anything for him. Even so, he felt like he didn't want to do Yoga anytime soon because he felt like he'd be forcing himself to go.

24 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said:

The 'praying out loud' sounds like 'law of attraction'..  It's nearly impossible to get to where you want to be if you don't know where you want to be. 

Sounds more like one way to apply the law of attraction, because there are many ways to get clear on and to express/ask for what you want. You could do it in writing, drawing, visualizing, and yes, praying.

[Mason Riggle]

2 minutes ago, CultivateLove said:

Sounds more like one way to apply the law of attraction, because there are many ways to get clear on and to express/ask for what you want. You could do it in writing, drawing, visualizing, and yes, praying.

Sure.. obviously it doesn't have to be 'praying out loud'. 

[CultivateLove]

14 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

#1: Stop trying to control people. Period.

You're right, too much of an energy sink with almost no return.

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

#2: Stop communicating with closedminded fools, as if you can reach them.

When it comes to their religion, they ARE quite closed-minded and I don't even try to challenge them on that part, but we talk about a lot more than just The Book of Mormon. Many times they have shared an opinion/belief on something and I offer a different perspective or another way of looking at it that actually seems to resonate with them, if that wasn't the case, I would have stopped talking to them a long time ago. 

I think they are fantastic practice for effectively communicating with people with a very different world-view. I don't want to be in an echo-chamber of people who share my beliefs and worldview.

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

#3: Focus on your LP.

I have yet to take the LP course, it's about time I do that.

Can your life purpose be to know people / humanity as deeply as possible, so you can most effectively help them? I've intuited that's my real passion since I was a kid.

@Mason Riggle Yeah just a little misunderstanding on my part with the law of attraction / prayer part at first  Also, I only watched 5 minutes of the video and I already want to finish it, but I have a meeting with the Mormons now 

[Mason Riggle]

@CultivateLove ?

[IAmReallyImportant]

3 hours ago, CultivateLove said:

A short backstory. A few months ago I got approached by some Mormon girls on the street, and we ended up having about an hour long discussion about God, Religion, Life etc. Ever since then we've been meeting up and talking for about 45-60 minutes once or twice a week. I have mixed feelings because on one hand I find these talks to be genuinely enjoyable and insightful (Doesn't hurt that they're both sweet and pretty, either), but on the other hand, their stage blue ideological thinking, and sometimes bordering on preaching, is starting to test my patience a bit. The main example is them trying to get me to start praying to God more, SPECIFICALLY out loud, because "it's worked for them, and it says in the Book of Mormon that God is BOUND to a promise to answer your prayers if you do).

Now, I didn't have anything against doing that before at all, I probably would have done it at some point in my life without any outside influence pushing me, but their insistence has only really made me want to do it less. One time during our talks, we were talking about what connects us as people, and what differentiates us, i.e. how much alike we are, yet how different we can be at the same time, and they suggested maybe I could ask God about it, so I was like fuck it, sure. So I prayed out loud, and genuinely asked God "Dear God, I never really ask you for anything, but now I am. If you could help me understand better how we are similar, and how we are different, so I can better help people in the future, I would REALLY appreciate it! Amen" (Something like that)

And holy damn, my last 2 weeks have been FULL of insights about exactly this, a few of them have been huge, and I'm sure they will be super happy to hear about this. But I don't really want to tell them to be honest, because they were too pushy, and I don't want to reward that pushy-ness, because then they're going to take that as a sign that what they are doing is "the right thing" and will CONTINUE to push prayer and other things upon people because it showed real results. Hell, a part of me STILL doesn't want to pray out loud to God because it feels... forced.

After some reflection, I see this in my past, and I see it in other people. For example, a close friend of mine has always had a bad impression of Yoga, meanwhile I'm a Yoga enthusiast. One day I asked him what his actual experience with Yoga was, and turns out it was at some class in a Fitness Center (which is the LAST place you'll find actual Yoga), I explained to him that he hasn't actually done Yoga, any more than eating at Taco Bell counts as trying Mexican food. That the Yoga he went to is just a cheap, western bastardization of actual Yoga. This analogy was good enough to open his mind up to trying Yoga again, but not anytime soon, because he kind of feels forced to do it, instead of it coming naturally.

Probably the best example of this phenonema I can think of is with girls, if you push just a LITTLE bit too hard sexually, it will turn her off like a bucket of cold water, EVEN IF she had some attraction towards you beforehand. 

I guess what I'm trying to understand is the underlying mechanics behind this whole thing and how to get around it? Is there a better way to convince someone that something is good for them without being seen as preachy, other than "being a good example"?

Missionise people is for dogmatic religious folks.

[CultivateLove]

2 hours ago, IAmReallyImportant said:

Missionise people is for dogmatic religious folks.

Obviously. I just wanted to see it in person to get a better understanding of it.

The dogma does run pretty deep, lol.

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, CultivateLove said:

Can your life purpose be to know people / humanity as deeply as possible, so you can most effectively help them?

Yes, but you want to get more specific about it.

[Byun Sean]

7 hours ago, CultivateLove said:

I think they are fantastic practice for effectively communicating with people with a very different world-view. I don't want to be in an echo-chamber of people who share my beliefs and worldview.

Not all perspectives are equal.

Its great to be openminded but also you need not waste time on perspectives that are clearly dogmatic and foolish.

 

 

[CultivateLove]

7 hours ago, Byun Sean said:

Not all perspectives are equal.

Its great to be openminded but also you need not waste time on perspectives that are clearly dogmatic and foolish.

I'm not there to drink the mormon kool-aid, rather to study the mind of people who have.

Also, doesn't hurt that one looks like a 20 year old version of Amelia Clark 

[nahtanoj]

Did you were an atheist before, because I was and I find myself resisting prayer and other "religious rituals" in my life. But any time I do them I feel 10x better. For example I started praying before sleeping for one week just to test it but also not expecting anything, (or so I think lol) I but that week was an amazing one full of connections and insights. Another one was when I started going to a buddhist center and people just bowed to you. It was super weird for me at first, I just moved my hands in sign of reciprocating to them but after a while and after learning of oness and that I was bowing to myself because we are one, I started bowing and it felt super good. I still bow to regular people in the street or in my job and some people get surprised. I just do what it feels right and has some knowledge behind it even if I don't understand it or I didn't follow their dogma. I also modified them to my own worldview or spirituality. I make my own prayers, sometimes I use  different mantras and regular Christian prayers. Just follow your intuition and watch out for becoming dogmatic with different religious views. Usually the truth is in everything but not completely. ?

Edited March 18, 2021 by nahtanoj

[IAmReallyImportant]

On 18/03/2021 at 6:57 AM, CultivateLove said:

I'm not there to drink the mormon kool-aid, rather to study the mind of people who have.

Also, doesn't hurt that one looks like a 20 year old version of Amelia Clark 

These minds are easy to understand. This shit is studied in a short period of time. Always the same patterns. If you are someone who needs more challenging stuff, I would switch.

Edited March 21, 2021 by IAmReallyImportant