Psymposia pamphlets against Martin Ball

[Leo Gura]

@Gidiot Riding a motorcycle can damage the energy system too.

Yet Sadhguru still does it.

Do you see the stupidity of such logic?

Sadhguru eats mercury, yet complains about psychedelics damaging the energy system.

[Gidiot]

@Leo Gura  yea that’s all true and a good point. The main reason I’d want to try them is to realize god just like Martin ball has but I don’t know if I’d risk negative side effects. I’m sure a bad diet is more harmful than taking most psychedelics.

 

I guess the best way is just to try them and see for myself and not complain they could be bad for me. They could also heal me which would be quite good too

[DnoReally]

"Hey yall im Dr. Lilly so and so"
Oh a Dr. this could be interesting
"I've got a PhD in Gender Studies"
Aight Imma head out

[Leo Gura]

If her PhD was in physics, it would not be much better for purposes of discussing mystical practices.

The problem here is that Ball is engaging in mystical practices while these PhD's are discussing it in terms of "legal or therapeutic professional framework". This is like criticizing a dog for not adhering to legal frameworks. There is no legal framework for this shit. And there is not even a scientific one.

With all that said, I still don't really agree with Ball's approach. It's needlessly pushy in my opinion. That's the only real problem I see here. Never push a newbie to trip harder if he doesn't want to. It's important that the newbie take 100% responsibility to trip, so that he can never blame you for it. It must be his decision to go deeper. If the client does not give a definitive YES, don't give him any more 5-MeO. Pushing enlightenment on people is not good practice. It will backfire at some point.

[knakoo]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

There is no clear evidence of that.

Don't spread gossip.

Well are you open to the possibility that psychedelics could be harmful if someone is very much abusing them ?

I did 100+ trips and I am not worried at all for myself, but if someone takes DMT or 5 MEO basically every day for many years, that would not shock me if there was some negative repercussions.

[Carl-Richard]

15 minutes ago, knakoo said:

I did 100+ trips and I am not worried at all for myself, but if someone takes DMT or 5 MEO basically every day for many years, that would not shock me if there was some negative repercussions.

I think we're seeing the repercussions right here. You'll become such an intensely authentic person that you'll sooner or later be let down by more conventional people who proport to share your interests

[Grateful Dead]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

His insomnia issues seem to have exists long back into his youth.

Have you asked him this?

Because I read his books and listened to his podcasts where he goes in depth on his insomnia issues and as far as I remember he never said that this problem already existed in his youth.

I remember him talking about how it all started and it wasn't that long ago (2019 I think). He said that he had like 10 days where he didn't sleep at all and it never went back to normal after that.

Martin still says he does not think it's because of his 5-MeO use but he also payed like 100k in medical bills and went to many different experts and no one could help him so far. His sleep is still fucked to this day.

Personally I like Martin but I think some of the stuff he put out there is dangerous, for example his book 'Entheogenic Liberation'.

14 hours ago, Thought Art said:

He also doesn't seem to do anything like Yoga or Qigong which would restore balance to the Yin and Yang of his energetic system.

He does Fractal Energetic Yoga ?

 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, knakoo said:

Well are you open to the possibility that psychedelics could be harmful if someone is very much abusing them ?

Of course. I have always warned against abusing these powerful substances.

7 minutes ago, acidgoofy said:

Have you asked him this?

In fact I have.

Whether he is to believed is another matter. He could be fooling himself.

It's inconclusive either way.

[knakoo]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course. I have always warned against abusing these powerful substances.

You always warned to be careful and responsible to avoid traumatising trips. Never read about you warning that taking too much too often could be bad for health. I guess no one knows for sure about that.

[Leo Gura]

If you are doing psychedelics on a regular, weekly, chronic basis, you're clearly not doing them right.

This is so obvious it hardly needs to be said.

[Phyllis Wagner]

27 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If you are doing psychedelics on a regular, weekly, chronic basis, you're clearly not doing them right.

This is so obvious it hardly needs to be said.

What about microdosing? I experienced more benefits just doing shrooms 4-5 days in a row for weeks instead of every 2nd or 3rd day.

Combined with lion's mane and meditation I think baseline increases in consciousness are possible that way.

My bro science theory is you want to keep these brain-interconnections like in your holism chart sustained for as much as possible while giving it a push with meditation, lion's mane helps solidify them.

Oddly enough I always wanted to stop after some weeks, even though the effect was always enjoyable. I don't understand it, this should be addictive but for some reason it isn't.

Edited March 17, 2021 by Phyllis Wagner

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, acidgoofy said:

Because I read his books and listened to his podcasts where he goes in depth on his insomnia issues and as far as I remember he never said that this problem already existed in his youth.

I also listened to his podcasts talking about it and he mentioned that he had sleep issues his entire life but that they recently got much worse.

[Villager Albert]

What the fuck is wrong with vomiting on clients and touching their genitals if it helps them heal? 

Just because we find it nasty or inappropriate doesn't make it bad.

It would be a different story if Martin's clients complained about him but he has done over 4000 sessions and there is not a single client who talked about the sessions negatively.

Martin also never forced anyone to be his client.

I don't have much personal experience with 5-MeO but it makes a lot of sense to me that he smokes 5-MeO with his clients and does bodywork on them. Martin said that they almost always tell him that the session was more healing than they could've imagined, even if they tried 5-MeO before.

None of us has nearly as much experience with the substance as him so how can we judge him and say that what he's doing is wrong or ineffective?

[Thought Art]

@Villager Albert It makes sense to me. But, not most people or western materialist scientists. 

Still need to be cautious. 

Edited March 17, 2021 by Thought Art

[Thought Art]

2 hours ago, acidgoofy said:

Have you asked him this?

Because I read his books and listened to his podcasts where he goes in depth on his insomnia issues and as far as I remember he never said that this problem already existed in his youth.

I remember him talking about how it all started and it wasn't that long ago (2019 I think). He said that he had like 10 days where he didn't sleep at all and it never went back to normal after that.

Martin still says he does not think it's because of his 5-MeO use but he also payed like 100k in medical bills and went to many different experts and no one could help him so far. His sleep is still fucked to this day.

Personally I like Martin but I think some of the stuff he put out there is dangerous, for example his book 'Entheogenic Liberation'.

He does Fractal Energetic Yoga ?

 

I've done similar stuff on trips. My body wants to move the energy.

However, this isn't making use of system like Qigong which would work the energy in a more meaningful way imo. 

[Tetcher]

Martin said that his insomnia issues were ancient, he always had trouble falling asleep whereas people around him would fall asleep easily. The acute manifestation of his insomnia when he couldn't sleep for days on end was in early 2019 but he stated to always have been a light sleeper.

Still that being said I personally think that 5meoDMT didn't help and probably took his light sleepiness into the acute phase. I don't know it for a fact but I'd bet he didn't do any 5meoDMT since the acute insomnia phase and probably won't trip anymore for a long time if not permanently, he wouldn't risk it.

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Tetcher said:

Still that being said I personally think that 5meoDMT didn't help and probably took his light sleepiness into the acute phase. I don't know it for a fact but I'd bet he didn't do any 5meoDMT since the acute insomnia phase and probably won't trip anymore for a long time if not permanently, he wouldn't risk it.

One thing that has always puzzled me is how chemically similar 5-MeO-DMT (5-Methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine) is to melatonin (N-acetyl-5-methoxy-tryptamine):

   

Melatonin is the chief hormone for regulating the circadian rhythm. During the day, we produce serotonin, but at night, it gets converted to melatonin. Metatonin exists in the retina aswell as in the brain, and it breaks down when exposed to light, which is how your body adjusts its sleep-wake cycle.

Considering the fact that 5-MeO is in a league of its own when it comes to serotonergic activity, it's not really hard to imagine that too much of it could have lasting impact on those systems. This is just pure speculation though.

Edited March 17, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[Spiral Wizard]

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

If you are doing psychedelics on a regular, weekly, chronic basis, you're clearly not doing them right.

This is so obvious it hardly needs to be said.

@Leo Gura didn't you do that?

[Leo Gura]

17 minutes ago, Spiral Wizard said:

@Leo Gura didn't you do that?

Nope

[Lyubov]

18 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

If her PhD was in physics, it would not be much better for purposes of discussing mystical practices.

The problem here is that Ball is engaging in mystical practices while these PhD's are discussing it in terms of "legal or therapeutic professional framework". This is like criticizing a dog for not adhering to legal frameworks. There is no legal framework for this shit. And there is not even a scientific one.

With all that said, I still don't really agree with Ball's approach. It's needlessly pushy in my opinion. That's the only real problem I see here. Never push a newbie to trip harder if he doesn't want to. It's important that the newbie take 100% responsibility to trip, so that he can never blame you for it. It must be his decision to go deeper. If the client does not give a definitive YES, don't give him any more 5-MeO. Pushing enlightenment on people is not good practice. It will backfire at some point.

First off I like Martin Ball and I do think he is a good dude that has put a lot of time and effort into his work with the intent of helping people and bringing some understanding to these radical experiences. I've talked to him before and he is a caring guy and I don't think he is nefarious or devilish in his practice. 

With that said I don't think his approach is good for random people and probably many people, especially those who aren't of sound mental clarity and health. I'm not talking about some veteran burners who lives in Oregon and can handle their shit but people who are curious and looked this stuff up and weren't aware just what they were getting themselves into. Current cowboy operations do not know how to prepare and screen for such people properly and do not have systems in place to support people after. If we are to legitimize these substances and have them integrated as a viable and legal means for people to explore/heal/raise consciousness we need to call attention to these cowboy operations going on. They are what they are and I understand why they are the way they are but as we try to move into the new psychedelic renaissance we need to advocate for a much stronger and ethical container when using them and these videos raise awareness for such systems. Offering healing and energy work through psychedelics needs to have the same ethical and procedural container medicine and therapy has. 

I'm sure plenty of women were fine after their back ally abortion but plenty were left scarred as well. These dated shamanic rituals carry a lot of risk when it comes to certain people and we need to develop a framework to keep people safe. Shamanic rituals are all good and sacred but we can always try to mitigate potential problems and make them safer. 

Edited March 18, 2021 by Lyubov