What is everyone scared of, why won't you liberate yourself of suffering and fear?

[Guru Fat Bastard]

If everyone could choose by their own will to be liberated from suffering there would be no suffering in the world. Anyone on the spiritual path realises sooner or later that by "my will alone" liberation will not happen. Grace is what liberates,anyone who says otherwise is still deluded. To say "I have attained the supreme reality" is still an ego laying claim to what it believes it has "accomplished",just as it lays claim that even the desire for liberation itself is it's choice. Eventually,at some point,it dawns on the seeker that the desire for liberation was there long before any choice was made by the the one claiming to have made the choice, and by that insight, the choice  to seek liberation was not a choice made by "you". It was decided for this apparent "you", with this apparent "you" having no choice whatsoever in the matter. This same "I" or "you" can say well ""I choose not to seek any longer".

Ha,see how that goes over. Would anyone "choose" to suffer if given the choice?

Edited March 15, 2021 by Guru Fat Bastard

[Snader]

18 minutes ago, Leo Nordin said:

Of what?

Death

[Leo Nordin]

2 minutes ago, Snader said:

Death

Is that true? 

[Snader]

9 minutes ago, Leo Nordin said:

Is that true? 

Fear of death? Yes.

Death? I don't know.

[Leo Nordin]

Isn't that being afraid of an idea? Or maybe you simply are afraid of consequences, or the unknown perhaps? 

21 minutes ago, Snader said:

Fear of death? Yes.

Death? I don't know.

[Snader]

22 minutes ago, Leo Nordin said:

Isn't that being afraid of an idea? Or maybe you simply are afraid of consequences, or the unknown perhaps? 

When you've spent your whole life being somebody and building your identity while thinking that's all there is, you can't just let it go, even let's say you have some peaks of the Truth.

So subjectively it's not the idea of death that scares the shit out of you, but losing your ego, which is all you've got until you've expanded your sense of self.

Edited March 15, 2021 by Snader

[Javfly33]

2 hours ago, Leo Nordin said:

Wait, why would most not be concious of something so obvious? Never mind living to the peaks of human capabilities. Do you think most people here live their lives unconsciously? Then I quess their problem may be more of awakening and less of what comes after that. Do you think I got that correctly? 

And because they aren't aware then living to your highest potential is a distant land and trying to reach it would only be in delusion and therefore ego backlashes would happen I quess? @Javfly33 do you really believe it is true that most on this forum is in such an early stage of spiritual development? 

 

Of what? 

 

Why? 

I don't think. It's obvious most people here are not in a God state of consciousness 99% of time.

If they would they wouldn't be typing here most of the time.

And I'm not talking about a super state of awareness like a peak of a psychedelic or 5-MeO.

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by Javfly33

[gettoefl]

you are making this black or white, it is a continuum ... we have to climb steadily day by day

but the answer to your question is we would rather talk than meditate, it is way easier

[Leo Nordin]

@gettoefl thank you for the reply. 

[BlackMaze]

2 hours ago, Leo Nordin said:

 I haven't seen anyone have ego backlashes either, did Shiva, Krishna, Adiyogi, Buddha, Sadhguru, J krishnamurti, Ug krishnamurti, Osho have ego backlashes after realisation? I get that if you aren't realised you may do the wrong things experiencially and therefore get an ego backlash, but isn't that just because you didn't know what you where doing when you tried to remove ego...? Also I totally get that you need to prepare yourself if you have loads of ideas about stuff, delusions, ego etc but that should dissappear rapidly after awakening? Just to put it out there I don't know what ego actually is. 

Alan watts killed himself or so i heard. 

I don't know either man. I just believe that it could potentially be bad for your survival. I'm just mental masturbating. Find out for yourself. 

[Leo Nordin]

12 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

If they would they wouldn't be typing here most of the time.

I wouldn't be typing here either. The interesting thing is that I have downgraded myself to fix external situations.

2 hours ago, Guru Fat Bastard said:

Grace is what liberates,

...

...

Eventually,at some point,it dawns on the seeker that the desire for liberation was there long before any choice was made by the the one claiming to have made the choice, and by that insight, the choice  to seek liberation was not a choice made by "you". It was decided for this apparent "you", with this apparent "you" having no choice whatsoever in the matter. This same "I" or "you" can say well ""I choose not to seek any longer".

Ha,see how that goes over. Would anyone "choose" to suffer if given the choice?

Earliest awakening I asked that question to myself. And I chose to suffer given the choice and situations that I was put in? so yes someone would choose to suffer. 

Grace is and was very potent for me and to deny it is heartbreaking. Somehow there is a spiritual girl in my class at my school and she is probably the only one in the the whole city or country (because we don't have spiritual people here) which somehow is almost enlightened. Once she was sitting at the same table as me, she stared at me for some time and somehow I almost couldn't contain grace's desire anymore, my whole face started kind of shaking and it took a lot of time (30min?) to control it again. Do you get how twisted this is. ? She is on higher consciousness and doesn't really go to school. I didn't want to allow the deeper intelligence of creation itself to function in me yet because it would mess up a lot of things in my life - I am only 17 years old. So here I am

[traveler]

How can you ever fit the whole of everything into a word? Liberation is being liberated from the dream that "Liberation" has any meaning whatsoever; that "Liberation" is pointing to something else than this. The "me" is looking for the end of seperation, using dualistic tools. You1 looking for Liberation2 is the unsatisfactory duality you are trying to overcome. You're looking for the end of looking ? it's a loopy poopy

[Leo Nordin]

Don't put me in this category, I am not looking for liberation, liberation is easy. And you cannot be afraid of the actual thing liberation but you are afraid of the idea of liberation. Therefore my thread's title is not, in a sense, accurate. Right now I am just looking to expand my consciousness by asking you @traveler why are you still in unsatisfactory duality? 

I also am not that familiar with the word duality because it is mainly used by spiritual amaricans, Asians has their language of yoga and in my country you are a fucking weird delusional weird idiot man if you communicate this way. 

If I understand rightly. You cannot function well in this world without duality, ending duality means death, or is there actually any duality to begin with. I don't quite get what duality means. I wouldn't call any state of being oneness except sleep or perhaps some deep meditation. 

37 minutes ago, traveler said:

 The "me" is looking for the end of seperation, using dualistic tools. You1 looking for Liberation2 is the unsatisfactory duality you are trying to overcome. You're looking for the end of looking ? it's a loopy poopy

[traveler]

56 minutes ago, Leo Nordin said:

Don't put me in this category, I am not looking for liberation, liberation is easy. And you cannot be afraid of the actual thing liberation but you are afraid of the idea of liberation. Therefore my thread's title is not, in a sense, accurate.

This is not personal, there is no intention to wake anybody up because there is no one to wake up, it is merely a description or an illumination of the dream of separation. What is so free about this is that these words don't come from anywhere, they don't come from knowing, they just happen with no one doing it. So there isn't anything to be understood or gotten, these words aren't pointing to somewhere else, they just are, words. And it doesn't get more direct and absolutely meaningless than that, haha. 

56 minutes ago, Leo Nordin said:

Right now I am just looking to expand my consciousness by asking you @traveler why are you still in unsatisfactory duality? 

By @traveler I'm guessing you mean "the owner of these words." Either there is a dream of someone here owning these words or there isn't, another way of putting it is, either there is an illusion of free will or there isn't. If there is an illusion of freewill, there isn't ACTUALLY free will, the illusion just makes it seem like there is. So basically, no one is in an unsatisfactory state of duality, but there can be the illusion of that. Either way, it doesn't ACTUALLY matter, because it isn't ACTUALLY happening. It matters to the illusory individual though, so it goes on a search to look for Liberation, which is never here in it's dream, it reaaaally hopes that it'll happen tomorrow though.. haha. 

1 hour ago, Leo Nordin said:

I also am not that familiar with the word duality

Duality basically just means "two," non-duality mean "not-two."

 

"in my country you are a fucking weird delusional weird idiot man if you communicate this way." LMAO.

 

1 hour ago, Leo Nordin said:

If I understand rightly. You cannot function well in this world without duality, ending duality means death, or is there actually any duality to begin with. I don't quite get what duality means. I wouldn't call any state of being oneness except sleep or perhaps some deep meditation. 

There is no duality to begin with, there is not even a beginning. Believing you can't function in this world without duality is just the individual having no idea what this actually points too. The individual is certain that it is real and that it is running the show, it thinks it makes everything happen and nothing will happen without it doing it. It doesn't do anything already, it is illusory, it just takes ownership of everything and says "yeah I did that." 8-) It is so unreal already, that when it falls away, it never were. 

[VeganAwake]

6 hours ago, traveler said:

How can you ever fit the whole of everything into a word? Liberation is being liberated from the dream that "Liberation" has any meaning whatsoever; that "Liberation" is pointing to something else than this. The "me" is looking for the end of seperation, using dualistic tools. You1 looking for Liberation2 is the unsatisfactory duality you are trying to overcome. You're looking for the end of looking ? it's a loopy poopy

❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ 

[VeganAwake]

11 hours ago, Guru Fat Bastard said:

If everyone could choose by their own will to be liberated from suffering there would be no suffering in the world. Anyone on the spiritual path realises sooner or later that by "my will alone" liberation will not happen. Grace is what liberates,anyone who says otherwise is still deluded. To say "I have attained the supreme reality" is still an ego laying claim to what it believes it has "accomplished",just as it lays claim that even the desire for liberation itself is it's choice. Eventually,at some point,it dawns on the seeker that the desire for liberation was there long before any choice was made by the the one claiming to have made the choice, and by that insight, the choice  to seek liberation was not a choice made by "you". It was decided for this apparent "you", with this apparent "you" having no choice whatsoever in the matter. This same "I" or "you" can say well ""I choose not to seek any longer".

Ha,see how that goes over. Would anyone "choose" to suffer if given the choice?

Yep,

There is no one which could find something called grace and no one which could be deluded.

There isn't a better position for ME.

Because Me isn't real. ❤

 

[Leo Nordin]

On 2021-03-16 at 0:58 AM, traveler said:

This is not personal, there is no intention to wake anybody up because there is no one to wake up, it is merely a description or an illumination of the dream of separation. What is so free about this is that these words don't come from anywhere, they don't come from knowing, they just happen with no one doing it. So there isn't anything to be understood or gotten, these words aren't pointing to somewhere else, they just are, words. And it doesn't get more direct and absolutely meaningless than that, haha. 

By @traveler I'm guessing you mean "the owner of these words." Either there is a dream of someone here owning these words or there isn't, another way of putting it is, either there is an illusion of free will or there isn't. If there is an illusion of freewill, there isn't ACTUALLY free will, the illusion just makes it seem like there is. So basically, no one is in an unsatisfactory state of duality, but there can be the illusion of that. Either way, it doesn't ACTUALLY matter, because it isn't ACTUALLY happening. It matters to the illusory individual though, so it goes on a search to look for Liberation, which is never here in it's dream, it reaaaally hopes that it'll happen tomorrow though.. haha. 

Duality basically just means "two," non-duality mean "not-two."

 

"in my country you are a fucking weird delusional weird idiot man if you communicate this way." LMAO.

 

There is no duality to begin with, there is not even a beginning. Believing you can't function in this world without duality is just the individual having no idea what this actually points too. The individual is certain that it is real and that it is running the show, it thinks it makes everything happen and nothing will happen without it doing it. It doesn't do anything already, it is illusory, it just takes ownership of everything and says "yeah I did that." 8-) It is so unreal already, that when it falls away, it never were. 

Yes, I am aware of all this.

@traveler are "you" still in the illusions and if so what is the illusions reason for it?

Also what are your thoughts on survival, how do you get your food? 

[Leo Nordin]

Would someone like to further discuss this topic? I've only gotten an answer from a few.